terradactylexpress said:

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Lol ok Elon.


Tesla's build quality had never been good and continues to get worse. They are going to get cleaned by the big auto makers

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I own two of them. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you own zero.

Got any personal experience here? Or are you falling victim to the bias that comes from people mostly rushing to the internet to complain about things, ie: panel gaps, in this case?

Sure, you've probably seen plenty of pictures or complaints on Twitter, Instagram, or Reddit. But, apparently you also think THOSE represent any significant portion of the millions of cars Tesla has on the road…

I bet you believe they catch fire more often than traditional cars, too…

terradactylexpress said:

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Lol ok Elon.


Tesla's build quality had never been good and continues to get worse. They are going to get cleaned by the big auto makers

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Thats not Elon who wrote that. Its from the marketing chick sitting in his lap whilst he trolls f16 flying on his jet to Boca Chica.

At least that was my impression.

terradactylexpress said:

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Lol ok Elon.


Tesla's build quality had never been good and continues to get worse. They are going to get cleaned by the big auto makers

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Oh the cleaning is just getting started. Ford is kicking off the year with a a bang with their earnings report and GM is somehow holding it together with smoke and mirrors. Just a delay in the inevitable. But you do have me second guessing. I mean look at all of the debt Tesla has … oh wait they have no debt. But but they aren't making any money yet … oh wait they have 20 Billion in cash and about to clear another 4 Billion this quarter. But but the competition is coming. The competition is a facade wrapped in bacon. Even if the "competition" is somehow able to create a "successful" EV they will be cannibalizing their profitable ICE business for their non-profitable EV business. If I'm a bank there is no way I'm loaning legacy auto's more money to build a factory to produce a product that might break even and destroy the other profitable half of the business in the meantime.

The writing is on the wall. You can either read it or listen to the liberal media that is bought and paid for by Biden's government motors (GM). The world is so screwed up right now. You've got liberals buying Tesla's in California like hot cakes (more Tesla's sold than Toyota Camry's last qtr), but yet they throw shade at Elon every day because they think he might be a Republican. Elon has voted democrat his whole life until 2020 when he voted for Trump instead of Biden because he wanted a president that could actually put together a 10 piece puzzle.

FYI my quad motor Cybertruck is on order with 550 mile range if you had any doubts about my faith in this company or its products. The more years I own Tesla's the more convicted I get.

Own 2 Model 3s and have 2 Cybertrucks pre-ordered as well.

aggievaulter07 said:

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Own 2 Model 3s and have 2 Cybertrucks pre-ordered as well.

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So you matched my Cybertruck and raised me one haha. Damn, probably not a bad idea. Really can't go wrong. You could drive one and lease the other one out for around $400/day fairly regularly especially if you receive them early. I know I would pay $400 to test drive one prior to delivery. Right now there are a little over 2 million on back order and if we're lucky the first year of production will produce 50k. If it's similar to the model 3 ramp we would see 240k trucks per year by 2025 so it's a long time before Tesla is really able to satisfy demand as full production ramps up.

fka ftc said:

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terradactylexpress said:

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Lol ok Elon.


Tesla's build quality had never been good and continues to get worse. They are going to get cleaned by the big auto makers

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Thats not Elon who wrote that. Its from the marketing chick sitting in his lap whilst he trolls f16 flying on his jet to Boca Chica.

At least that was my impression.

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Tesla's retention/conquest rate with customers is far and away the best in the auto industry, not just among EV customers or luxury buyers.

Their margins are also way better than the other mfg's. The quality knocks were very real, but I am pretty convinced the company has addressed that.

These videos below are fanboys discussing it (Tesla paid Sandy handsomely to tear stuff up and come up with fixes a few years back) but they are better educated/more knowledgeable about this stuff than I am, and it's an informative discussion despite the biases.





It will be fascinating to see how this market/company evolves over the next 10 years, imho. They are supposedly about to announce 1, or more likely 2 plants in Mexico to build the next vehicle (presumably something under the model 3). There is a separate tax incentive/subsidized area around Mexico city and also a likely plant near the US border (Nuevo Leon). The total investment in these two will probably exceed $1.2 billion.

Smart will be the legacy ICE carmaker who doubles down on ultra efficient ICE or hybrid, particular for family vacay vehicles, rural customers and truck owners.

If I ran GM or Ford, I would ditch EVs other than a token model. NO ONE actually wants a truck that accelerates 0-60 in 3 seconds but has to be plugged in at the deer stand.

Quote:

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NO ONE actually wants a truck that accelerates 0-60 in 3 seconds but has to be plugged in at the deer stand.

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Except the entire production run of the first year Lightning is sold out.

CDUB98 said:

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Quote:

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NO ONE actually wants a truck that accelerates 0-60 in 3 seconds but has to be plugged in at the deer stand.

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Except the entire production run of the first year Lightning is sold out.

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"Look at me and my ultra exclusive EV truck" is a helluva drug.

Check back in when you see the guy showing up to mow the lawn has an EV truck and fleet of EV lawnmowers, then asks to plug in whilst they get to work.

I didn't say I wanted one, nor that it was a good idea.

I merely pointing out the fact that enough people want them to sell out and you may be off target. You are correct in that we will see the truth in 3-5 years.

Agree. Expect we will see in next year if not already the early Lightning adopters with a fancy ICE generator mounted through the trucks for "remote vehicle charging".

fka ftc said:

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Smart will be the legacy ICE carmaker who doubles down on ultra efficient ICE or hybrid, particular for family vacay vehicles, rural customers and truck owners.

If I ran GM or Ford, I would ditch EVs other than a token model. NO ONE actually wants a truck that accelerates 0-60 in 3 seconds but has to be plugged in at the deer stand.

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Most people that own trucks don't use them as trucks. They have normal commutes, never tow, don't hunt, live near cities, and the most they haul is a load from home depot.

The lightning is perfect for those people. I tow a lot so an EV truck will not work for me in the near future.

fka ftc said:

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Agree. Expect we will see in next year if not already the early Lightning adopters with a fancy ICE generator mounted through the trucks for "remote vehicle charging".

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Yep, and I know just where to mount them--in the frunk area. Could mount it just like an ICE, drill some ventilation holes similar to a radiator, etc!! Problem solved!!

Teslag said:

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fka ftc said:

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Smart will be the legacy ICE carmaker who doubles down on ultra efficient ICE or hybrid, particular for family vacay vehicles, rural customers and truck owners.

If I ran GM or Ford, I would ditch EVs other than a token model. NO ONE actually wants a truck that accelerates 0-60 in 3 seconds but has to be plugged in at the deer stand.

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Most people that own trucks don't use them as trucks. They have normal commutes, never tow, don't hunt, live near cities, and the most they haul is a load from home depot.

The lightning is perfect for those people. I tow a lot so an EV truck will not work for me in the near future.

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Most def. Hauling tons of horse manure to TexAgs everyday would not be consistent with an EVs capabilities.

CDUB98 said:

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Quote:

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NO ONE actually wants a truck that accelerates 0-60 in 3 seconds but has to be plugged in at the deer stand.

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Except the entire production run of the first year Lightning is sold out.

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Yeah that one was not really accurate, imho. Ford could sell a tandem bicycle with F-series on it (and GM with Silverado) and sell a crap ton, period. Truck buyers always want the latest/greatest crap, imho.

nortex97 said:

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CDUB98 said:

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Quote:

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NO ONE actually wants a truck that accelerates 0-60 in 3 seconds but has to be plugged in at the deer stand.

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Except the entire production run of the first year Lightning is sold out.

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Yeah that one was not really accurate, imho. Ford could sell a tandem bicycle with F-series on it (and GM with Silverado) and sell a crap ton, period. Truck buyers always want the latest/greatest crap, imho.

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King Ranch edition?

Exactly.

fka ftc said:

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Smart will be the legacy ICE carmaker who doubles down on ultra efficient ICE or hybrid, particular for family vacay vehicles, rural customers and truck owners.

If I ran GM or Ford, I would ditch EVs other than a token model. NO ONE actually wants a truck that accelerates 0-60 in 3 seconds but has to be plugged in at the deer stand.

---

You do realize that purely from a sales volume standpoint, the trucks that actually end up at a deer stand would represent a tiny fraction of overall truck sales, right? As another poster pointed out, the vast majority of trucks are sold to "normal" commuters that never take them off-road, or tow anything. And rarely have to worry about the payload capacity of the bed.

This is not the time to "double down" on ICE. That's not to say it's time to abandon making gas/diesel powered trucks altogether, but it's certainly not time to "double down" on them as a forward thinking CEO who wants to still be employed 10 years from now.

aggievaulter07 said:

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fka ftc said:

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Smart will be the legacy ICE carmaker who doubles down on ultra efficient ICE or hybrid, particular for family vacay vehicles, rural customers and truck owners.

If I ran GM or Ford, I would ditch EVs other than a token model. NO ONE actually wants a truck that accelerates 0-60 in 3 seconds but has to be plugged in at the deer stand.

---

You do realize that purely from a sales volume standpoint, the trucks that actually end up at a deer stand would represent a tiny fraction of overall truck sales, right? As another poster pointed out, the vast majority of trucks are sold to "normal" commuters that never take them off-road, or tow anything. And rarely have to worry about the payload capacity of the bed.

This is not the time to "double down" on ICE. That's not to say it's time to abandon making gas/diesel powered trucks altogether, but it's certainly not time to "double down" on them as a forward thinking CEO who wants to still be employed 10 years from now.

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You do you. But I am investing in ICE, not EVs. 75% of vehicles will continue to be ICE 10 years from now, likely 20 years from now.

fka ftc said:

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aggievaulter07 said:

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fka ftc said:

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Smart will be the legacy ICE carmaker who doubles down on ultra efficient ICE or hybrid, particular for family vacay vehicles, rural customers and truck owners.

If I ran GM or Ford, I would ditch EVs other than a token model. NO ONE actually wants a truck that accelerates 0-60 in 3 seconds but has to be plugged in at the deer stand.

---

You do realize that purely from a sales volume standpoint, the trucks that actually end up at a deer stand would represent a tiny fraction of overall truck sales, right? As another poster pointed out, the vast majority of trucks are sold to "normal" commuters that never take them off-road, or tow anything. And rarely have to worry about the payload capacity of the bed.

This is not the time to "double down" on ICE. That's not to say it's time to abandon making gas/diesel powered trucks altogether, but it's certainly not time to "double down" on them as a forward thinking CEO who wants to still be employed 10 years from now.

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You do you. But I am investing in ICE, not EVs. 75% of vehicles will continue to be ICE 10 years from now, likely 20 years from now.

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I see companies like Dodge saying they're going to kill all their ICE vehicles for EVs in the near future. Why the **** do they think someone buys a Dodge Challenger? They'll find out it's for the "muscle car" features...

You do you, too. At the time, lots of people didn't think ICE was going to replace the horse, either. Did you also invest in Sears during Amazon's rise?

At this point, how does one "Invest in ICE"?

Serious question, since basically every ICE manufacturer is already, or has announced heavy investments in EVs.

Or, did you not mean "invest" literally? And just mean you're only buying ICE vehicles for the foreseeable future?

Let's check your pulse on the auto industry as a whole. Assuming you have the funds to do so, would you buy or open an auto dealership today?

Wonder how much of that is for fleet vehicles ?

aggievaulter07 said:

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Let's check your pulse on the auto industry as a whole. Assuming you have the funds to do so, would you buy or open an auto dealership today?

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No. Car dealerships have always been worthless and I despise every single part of the car buying process.

If I walk into a dealership I usually know way more about the car, the market and the price of the car than the poor fella who drew the short straw having me as a customer.

Now, I just order what I want. Not sure what the point of your question was though.

ICE is here to stay, at least for the next 25-50 years. As smarter Ags than I have pointed out, petro has a unique advantage of store energy potential. EVs do not replicate that at all. They are actually a regression from the diesel locomotive. Chew on that a bit.

[You can make your point without being disrespectful to others -- Staff]

fka ftc said:

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aggievaulter07 said:

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Let's check your pulse on the auto industry as a whole. Assuming you have the funds to do so, would you buy or open an auto dealership today?

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No. Car dealerships have always been worthless and I despise every single part of the car buying process.

If I walk into a dealership I usually know way more about the car, the market and the price of the car than the poor fella who drew the short straw having me as a customer.

Now, I just order what I want. Not sure what the point of your question was though.

ICE is here to stay, at least for the next 25-50 years. As smarter Ags than I have pointed out, petro has a unique advantage of store energy potential. EVs do not replicate that at all. They are actually a regression from the diesel locomotive. Chew on that a bit.

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All I know is that when I jump in my Tesla every morning I've got 300 miles of stored energy. When I'm out of town and rent an ICE vehicle, it feels clunky, unsafe, ancient and inefficient. The Tesla has instant power with just a small depression of the accelerator, automatically comes to a stop at lights with regenerative braking so you rarely have to use the "real" brakes, the steering is extremely responsive and agile but yet built solid as a rock. My wife has a knack for running into curbs and what used to knock our ICE cars completely out of alignment doesn't budge the Tesla. It seems almost impossible to knock them out of alignment.

So what you claim as a regression is actually the safest, fastest, cleanest, most advanced software managed vehicle on the planet. With near zero maintenance (changing that windshield wiper fluid is a pain). No transmission fluid, no power steering fluid, no oil, no spark plugs, no starter. I'm an FSD beta tester and with autopilot mode selected the car drove 50 miles from North Dallas to Fort Worth with no interventions. Stopping at red lights, waiting for oncoming traffic to pass before turning on an unprotected left turn. Auto pilot is coming folks. It might not be this year, it might not be next year but within 3-5 years I fully expect to be able to tell my Tesla to "Navigate to Phoenix Arizona" and 15 hours later driving all night while I'm asleep hearing "You've arrived at your destination" in a sexy British voice with a hot cup of morning coffee being delivered out of the front console.

Drive one, own one. Your perspective will change drastically.

I've moved up a tidy $12k in the last week and bit with my Tesla stock. Thinking, I'll hold out to $400.

aggievaulter07 said:

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You do you, too. At the time, lots of people didn't think ICE was going to replace the horse, either. Did you also invest in Sears during Amazon's rise?

At this point, how does one "Invest in ICE"?

Serious question, since basically every ICE manufacturer is already, or has announced heavy investments in EVs.

Or, did you not mean "invest" literally? And just mean you're only buying ICE vehicles for the foreseeable future?

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Did you really just compare ICE vehicles to the technological equivalent of a horse? Rofl.

Manufacturers are pushing ev's bc of their crazy amount of profit margins and massive govt subsidies.

By golly I may have to hang up my saddle and try one of these electric horseless carriages.

Appreciate your enthusiastic description of Tesla, but its a self driving golf cart with an iPad screen.

EV penetration will peak just above 25% then settle into a 1 in 4 for the long foreseeable future.

An ICE that converts to DC electric gives you all the fun stuff of an EV and the stored energy of petroleum.

But again, buy away. But its foolish to think I am a fool for being just a wee skeptical of this revolution.

smitshot said:

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fka ftc said:

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aggievaulter07 said:

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Let's check your pulse on the auto industry as a whole. Assuming you have the funds to do so, would you buy or open an auto dealership today?

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No. Car dealerships have always been worthless and I despise every single part of the car buying process.

If I walk into a dealership I usually know way more about the car, the market and the price of the car than the poor fella who drew the short straw having me as a customer.

Now, I just order what I want. Not sure what the point of your question was though.

ICE is here to stay, at least for the next 25-50 years. As smarter Ags than I have pointed out, petro has a unique advantage of store energy potential. EVs do not replicate that at all. They are actually a regression from the diesel locomotive. Chew on that a bit.

---

All I know is that when I jump in my Tesla every morning I've got 300 miles of stored energy. When I'm out of town and rent an ICE vehicle, it feels clunky, unsafe, ancient and inefficient. The Tesla has instant power with just a small depression of the accelerator, automatically comes to a stop at lights with regenerative braking so you rarely have to use the "real" brakes, the steering is extremely responsive and agile but yet built solid as a rock. My wife has a knack for running into curbs and what used to knock our ICE cars completely out of alignment doesn't budge the Tesla. It seems almost impossible to knock them out of alignment.

So what you claim as a regression is actually the safest, fastest, cleanest, most advanced software managed vehicle on the planet. With near zero maintenance (changing that windshield wiper fluid is a pain). No transmission fluid, no power steering fluid, no oil, no spark plugs, no starter. I'm an FSD beta tester and with autopilot mode selected the car drove 50 miles from North Dallas to Fort Worth with no interventions. Stopping at red lights, waiting for oncoming traffic to pass before turning on an unprotected left turn. Auto pilot is coming folks. It might not be this year, it might not be next year but within 3-5 years I fully expect to be able to tell my Tesla to "Navigate to Phoenix Arizona" and 15 hours later driving all night while I'm asleep hearing "You've arrived at your destination" in a sexy British voice with a hot cup of morning coffee being delivered out of the front console.

Drive one, own one. Your perspective will change drastically.

---

You driving that 300 miles at 20 mph?

fka ftc said:

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By golly I may have to hang up my saddle and try one of these electric horseless carriages.

Appreciate your enthusiastic description of Tesla, but its a self driving golf cart with an iPad screen.

EV penetration will peak just above 25% then settle into a 1 in 4 for the long foreseeable future.

An ICE that converts to DC electric gives you all the fun stuff of an EV and the stored energy of petroleum.

But again, buy away. But it's foolish to think I am a fool for being just a wee skeptical of this revolution.

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Golf carts are also ICE. Is a Ferrari just a golf cart as well?

If its an EV then yes. ICE golf carts are just regular go carts with more plastic and softer seats.

It's interesting that something like 20 percent of the golf cart market is still ICE, as most of course are used in a limited area close to a charging infrastructure. I don't golf much but have been stranded several times over the years by rental electric carts that just run out of juice before going 18 holes.

Typical, in other words...

Interesting its as high as 20%. I've had gas ones in OK a couple of times, but since Houston and DFW area are mostly links style, then it seems electric ones rule the roost.

Stonebriar just invested in some new EVs. Better batteries and battery life, which is now consumed with a myriad of onboard electronics. So, a Tesla for the golf course.