Tesla is Finished

109,780 Views | 1566 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by notex
hph6203
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AG
There is more than 20 billion kg of lithium in the world.

They're doing math based upon the assumption that every vehicle requires an 8kg supply of lithium. That is unlikely.

Lithium is not the only electrolyte capable of being used in a battery pack.

You're trusting the World Economic Forum.
ntxVol
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Now do nickel and cobalt.
JCE_02
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I love how libs are giddy about tearing up the earth to dig up non-renewable materials to build cars that are ultimately powered by fossil fuels (65% of US electricity comes from coal, natural gas, or petro) but are totally against drilling for oil.

It's the most logically inconsistent thing ever.
hph6203
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Nickel and cobalt are only necessary for some of the battery chemistries. Those battery chemistries represent only half of the vehicles Tesla currently sells.

The amount of cobalt in batteries has been decreasing even in the batteries that utilize it.
hph6203
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Not supporting nuclear energy while advocating for electric vehicles is truly nutty.
Teslag
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JCE_02 said:

I love how libs are giddy about tearing up the earth to dig up non-renewable materials to build cars that are ultimately powered by fossil fuels (65% of US electricity comes from coal, natural gas, or petro) but are totally against drilling for oil.

It's the most logically inconsistent thing ever.


I have a diesel truck that tows a gasoline outboard powered bay boat, and a Tesla. I say drill and dig it all.
ntxVol
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hph6203 said:

Nickel and cobalt are only necessary for some of the battery chemistries. Those battery chemistries represent only half of the vehicles Tesla currently sells.

The amount of cobalt in batteries has been decreasing even in the batteries that utilize it.
Those batteries also have less power density, so range is comparatively shorter. Not solving one of biggest EV issues with those batteries.
JCE_02
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Teslag said:

JCE_02 said:

I love how libs are giddy about tearing up the earth to dig up non-renewable materials to build cars that are ultimately powered by fossil fuels (65% of US electricity comes from coal, natural gas, or petro) but are totally against drilling for oil.

It's the most logically inconsistent thing ever.


I have a diesel truck that tows a gasoline outboard powered bay boat, and Tesla. I say drill and dig it all.

Do you have to tow the tesla often?
smitshot
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JCE_02 said:

I love how libs are giddy about tearing up the earth to dig up non-renewable materials to build cars that are ultimately powered by fossil fuels (65% of US electricity comes from coal, natural gas, or petro) but are totally against drilling for oil.

It's the most logically inconsistent thing ever.
I have two Tesla's, working on getting solar panels to make the entire house energy independent. Always charge the cars at home so won't really need the grid. Mega pack energy storage stations will also improve the grid for other needs. Areas with little sun or wind get nuclear or geo-thermal. This is the way.

We should drill oil as long as it takes to bridge the gap. But make no mistake about it, the weening process has begun.

FYI I'm a conservative Republican. The Cyber Truck is on order and a gun rack will be mounted.
texsn95
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AG
10 years to "bridge the gap"? That's the funniest thing I've heard all day.
smitshot
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texsn95 said:

10 years to "bridge the gap"? That's the funniest thing I've heard all day.
FIFY
Proc92
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Maybe a 100 years to bridge the gap
Manhattan
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ntxVol said:

hph6203 said:

Nickel and cobalt are only necessary for some of the battery chemistries. Those battery chemistries represent only half of the vehicles Tesla currently sells.

The amount of cobalt in batteries has been decreasing even in the batteries that utilize it.
Those batteries also have less power density, so range is comparatively shorter. Not solving one of biggest EV issues with those batteries.


Energy density…. Power and energy aren't complicated.
Bill Clinternet
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Mars would be a good bet to find extensive lithium deposits, given the extensive evidence that its surface was shaped by flowing water.

More lithium might be found in the icy outer Solar System, where there's plenty of water available to pull the metal out of rocks. Lithium could be present in low concentrations in the oceans beneath the icy surfaces of Jupiter's moon Europa and Saturn's Enceladus. The greatest lithium deposits (basically a limitless supply) can be found in seawater on Earth. However, we don't yet have a method for extracting dilute lithium from Earth's oceans, and Enceladus's alien seas could prove an even bigger challenge.
aggieforester05
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The energy required to extract it and deliver it here from any of those locations would be enormous. We're a long long way from that being a viable solution.
Demosthenes81
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$1.5 billion in lithium sitting in Maine that the owners can't touch due to environmental laws

https://www.mainepublic.org/2021-10-25/a-1-5-billion-lithium-deposit-has-been-discovered-in-western-maine-but-mining-it-could-be-hard?_amp=true
Bill Clinternet
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aggieforester05 said:

The energy required to extract it and deliver it here from any of those locations would be enormous. We're a long long way from that being a viable solution.
Not as far as we might think.

Researchers at King Abdullah University of Science and Technology in Saudi Arabia have figured out how to extract lithium from seawater in a cost-effective way.

They solved this problem with an electrochemical cell containing a ceramic membrane made from lithium lanthanum titanium oxide (LLTO). Its crystal structure contains holes just wide enough to let lithium ions pass through while blocking larger metal ions.
The cell contains three compartments. Seawater flows into a central feed chamber, where positive lithium ions pass through the LLTO membrane into a side compartment that contains a buffer solution and a copper cathode coated with platinum and ruthenium. Meanwhile, negative ions exit the feed chamber through a standard anion exchange membrane, passing into a third compartment containing a sodium chloride solution and a platinum-ruthenium anode.
At a voltage of 3.25V, the cell generates hydrogen gas at the cathode and chlorine gas at the anode. This drives the transport of lithium through the LLTO membrane, where it accumulates in the side chamber. This lithium-enriched water then becomes the feedstock for four more cycles of processing, eventually reaching a concentration of more than 9,000 ppm. Adjusting the pH of this solution delivers solid lithium phosphate that contains mere traces of other metal ions pure enough to meet battery manufacturers' requirements.

The researchers estimate that the cell would need only $5 of electricity to extract 1 kilogram of lithium from seawater, and the value of hydrogen and chlorine produced by the cell would more than offset the cost. Further, residual seawater could be used in desalination plants to provide freshwater.
ntxVol
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Demosthenes81 said:

$1.5 billion in lithium sitting in Maine that the owners can't touch due to environmental laws

https://www.mainepublic.org/2021-10-25/a-1-5-billion-lithium-deposit-has-been-discovered-in-western-maine-but-mining-it-could-be-hard?_amp=true

That's the primary issue with mining lithium, it's harmful to the environment.

EV proponents don't seem to care as long as it's being mined in some 3rd world ****hole.
Franklin Comes Alive!
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ntxVol said:

Demosthenes81 said:

$1.5 billion in lithium sitting in Maine that the owners can't touch due to environmental laws

https://www.mainepublic.org/2021-10-25/a-1-5-billion-lithium-deposit-has-been-discovered-in-western-maine-but-mining-it-could-be-hard?_amp=true

That's the primary issue with mining lithium, it's harmful to the environment.

EV proponents don't seem to care as long as it's being mined in some 3rd world ****hole.



It absolutely destroys the environment

It's why it's obvious the whole thing is a sham

Anyone eating up the ev insanity is either low iq or wants to destroy the earth
Street Fighter
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AG
Dont forget the cobalt slaves.
nortex97
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And platinum, silver, copper, manganese, gold, palladium etc. but I'm sure our friends the saudis have it all figured out or will soon.
JCE_02
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Neehau said:

Mars would be a good bet to find extensive lithium deposits, given the extensive evidence that its surface was shaped by flowing water.

More lithium might be found in the icy outer Solar System, where there's plenty of water available to pull the metal out of rocks. Lithium could be present in low concentrations in the oceans beneath the icy surfaces of Jupiter's moon Europa and Saturn's Enceladus. The greatest lithium deposits (basically a limitless supply) can be found in seawater on Earth. However, we don't yet have a method for extracting dilute lithium from Earth's oceans, and Enceladus's alien seas could prove an even bigger challenge.

Am I the only one reading this? Their solution is to mine on mars?
Urban Ag
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JCE_02 said:

Neehau said:

Mars would be a good bet to find extensive lithium deposits, given the extensive evidence that its surface was shaped by flowing water.

More lithium might be found in the icy outer Solar System, where there's plenty of water available to pull the metal out of rocks. Lithium could be present in low concentrations in the oceans beneath the icy surfaces of Jupiter's moon Europa and Saturn's Enceladus. The greatest lithium deposits (basically a limitless supply) can be found in seawater on Earth. However, we don't yet have a method for extracting dilute lithium from Earth's oceans, and Enceladus's alien seas could prove an even bigger challenge.

Am I the only one reading this? Their solution is to mine on mars?
And the only man that can do it is Elon <insert dramatic evil villain music>

ravingfans
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I read that too, but it was so absurd I did not comment.

Really bizarre is mining Saturn or icy remote planets like Neptune or Uranus...

It would be 30 to 50 years for a round trip for some of those if it were even technically possible. Definitely not feasible.
nortex97
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Tesla, which is finished….just continues dominating EV sales in Dem-CCP playgrounds like California.


Quote:

Tesla's exceptional sales record in California shows that, even though many other EV options exist, it is still the ideal choice in what could be considered the country's hotspot for electric cars.

Sales figures released by the California Department of Energy show Tesla sold 212,586 units in California in 2022, accounting for just under 73 percent of the 292,496 battery electric vehicles (BEVs) sold in the State collectively across all manufacturers.

The Model 3 narrowly edged out the Model Y accounting for 94,683 units sold. The Model Y collected 93,872 units sold for the year, while the Model X (13,319) and Model S (10,712) continue to reaffirm their status as "sentimental" to the company's big picture.

BMW (15,057) and Ford (14,517) were second and third in registrations, with the X5 (4,346) and Mustang Mach-E (9,860) being the companies' two best-sellers.

California accounted for 40 percent of zero-emission vehicle sales in the United States, Reuters said. Meanwhile, of the 807,180 BEVs sold in the U.S. last year, according to Motor Intelligence (via WSJ), the 292,496 BEVs sold in California accounted for 36 percent of the U.S. EV market share last year.

The dominance of Tesla in the overall BEV market is impressive, but the domination in an EV hotspot like California is a testament to the company's advantages over others.
Also throwing $3.5 billion at a new plant in Nevada for the semi truck that I happen to think is insane, but whatever.
WHOOP!'91
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ravingfans said:

I read that too, but it was so absurd I did not comment.

Really bizarre is mining Saturn or icy remote planets like Neptune or Uranus...

It would be 30 to 50 years for a round trip for some of those if it were even technically possible. Definitely not feasible.
I think Neehau mined Uranus for that idea.
LMCane
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the more important question is:

which is easier and cheaper to maintain over a decade of usage?

1. an electric vehicle such as a Tesla

2. a hybrid vehicle such as a Prius

3. gas guzzler like a Lexus
nortex97
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LMCane said:

the more important question is:

which is easier and cheaper to maintain over a decade of usage?

1. an electric vehicle such as a Tesla

2. a hybrid vehicle such as a Prius

3. gas guzzler like a Lexus
No, no points awarded, those aren't actually the most important questions (completely ignoring the infrastructure/materials required), and further those aren't the main drivers for drivers buying/leasing Tesla's vs. those options either.

In fact, Tesla die hard passionate fans/boosters are very quick to point out maintenance is irrelevant to them, as they plan to sell/get a new car within 3 to 5 years.

Do not pass go, do not collect $200.
WHOOP!'91
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LMCane said:

the more important question is:

which is easier and cheaper to maintain over a decade of usage?

1. an electric vehicle such as a Tesla

2. a hybrid vehicle such as a Prius

3. gas guzzler like a Lexus
Is the answer to "easier" and "cheaper" the same? Easier, probably the EV. Cheaper? Probably the gas guzzler. You'd have to factor in multiple major repairs for the Lexus compared to replacing the EV's battery pack. I don't have the probabilities of needing those repairs, but the Lexus vehicles are very reliable for a very long time. My sister-in-law has a Tundra with almost 300,000 miles on it, and hasn't had anything as bad as even a starter or alternator, much less engine or transmission issues, and she routinely tows trailers and boats with it.
WHOOP!'91
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nortex97 said:

LMCane said:

the more important question is:

which is easier and cheaper to maintain over a decade of usage?

1. an electric vehicle such as a Tesla

2. a hybrid vehicle such as a Prius

3. gas guzzler like a Lexus
No, no points awarded, those aren't actually the most important questions (completely ignoring the infrastructure/materials required), and further those aren't the main drivers for drivers buying/leasing Tesla's vs. those options either.

In fact, Tesla die hard passionate fans/boosters are very quick to point out maintenance is irrelevant to them, as they plan to sell/get a new car within 3 to 5 years.

Do not pass go, do not collect $200.
nortex97
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ravingfans said:

I read that too, but it was so absurd I did not comment.

Really bizarre is mining Saturn or icy remote planets like Neptune or Uranus...

It would be 30 to 50 years for a round trip for some of those if it were even technically possible. Definitely not feasible.
It is not a near term commercial enterprise, imho, but the technology to do so is not that far off. 50 years? 100 years? I dunno, but using nuclear propulsion and robotics etc. to construct mining operations within the solar system will happen at some point.

Not soon enough for anyone to alive today to come back to this thread and say 'see, I told you so, my EV decision in 2023 made perfect sense' but still..someday.
Teslag
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LMCane said:

the more important question is:

which is easier and cheaper to maintain over a decade of usage?

1. an electric vehicle such as a Tesla

2. a hybrid vehicle such as a Prius

3. gas guzzler like a Lexus


It depends.
Mulberrywildman
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Heads up to anyone replying to Neehau, that account is just copy and pasting it's responses from here…

https://www.sciof.fi/lithium-beyond-earth/amp/

Interpret that as you will…
spider96
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nortex97 said:

ravingfans said:

I read that too, but it was so absurd I did not comment.

Really bizarre is mining Saturn or icy remote planets like Neptune or Uranus...

It would be 30 to 50 years for a round trip for some of those if it were even technically possible. Definitely not feasible.
It is not a near term commercial enterprise, imho, but the technology to do so is not that far off. 50 years? 100 years? I dunno, but using nuclear propulsion and robotics etc. to construct mining operations within the solar system will happen at some point.

Not soon enough for anyone to alive today to come back to this thread and say 'see, I told you so, my EV decision in 2023 made perfect sense' but still..someday.
Project Orion. That would've been interesting to see.

To the stars by atom bomb
nortex97
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AG
Yes. But nuclear electric also has applications (and thermal). A lot of notional concepts today. Mars in five weeks anytime (almost). Again outside the scope of this thread but if we don't blow ourselves up the technology to do all of that stuff will be there.
 
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