Hubert J. Farnsworth said:

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Please explain how Elon has turned towards fascism. A number of people on this thread would love to hear your reasoning for why you say that.

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I think what you mean is 'would love to laugh hysterically this evening, again, at your feelings which you have deluded yourself into believing are logically reasoned analysis.'

Guy owns a social media company, cuts back on fascist coordination (with the government) to censor speech on the platform; "he's a fascist! He's wrecking some other company he owns too with his racist bigoted hatred!!!! That company is now worth only twice or 4 times their nearest competitor!"

If not for the batteries, they would be pretty decent vehicles.

Ag with kids said:

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nai06 said:

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At what point should people be concerned about Tesla stock price?

It's currently at $109.86 and has been hovering/dropping.

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AMZN started the year at $171 and is now around $83.

Guess they're finished, too...

ETA: I think I'm going to move some money into that soon to be bankrupt business in the near future...

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AMZN ceo didn't piss off a large portion of it's existing and potential customer base (liberals). Also, the amount of competition Tesla has coming it's way in the 3 years is insane between massive EV investments through Ford, GM, VW, BYD, Toyota, etc etc etc along with many startups. Like Amazon, Tesla no doubt will be around a very long time, but the days of their ridiculously high valued stock are over.

nai06 said:

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At what point should people be concerned about Tesla stock price?

It's currently at $109.86 and has been hovering/dropping.

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You seem so desperate...

Some Junkie Cosmonaut said:

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nai06 said:

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At what point should people be concerned about Tesla stock price?

It's currently at $109.86 and has been hovering/dropping.

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You seem so desperate...

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I don't have any stock in Tesla and I don't think they are finished like the OP does. I was just curious what people thought was a point of concern in terms of stock price. At what point do you really start to raise the alarm.

Ford CFO says inflation has erased Mustang Mach-E profits
The VW ID.4 Isn't Profitable And It's Because Of The Battery
140,000 Chevrolet Bolt electric cars recalled to fix seat belt issue that can cause fires
GM Expands Recall, All Chevrolet Bolt Vehicles Now Recalled
Toyota's Chief Says Electric Vehicles Are Overhyped

BYD isn't eligible for the EV tax credit. So if angry U.S. liberals don't want to buy Teslas, they're going to have to pay more for competitors.

That said, the stock isn't down over angry liberals. It's from selling pressure from Elon and macroeconomic forces generating concern that Tesla won't be able to both maintain margins and continue to grow at 50% YoY.

Tesla's path forward is expansion of their vehicle lineup, increase production, reduce margins, and maintain as much market share as they can while improving their self driving software. The better that software looks the more likely the stock price will rebound. It may take a couple of years for it to return to all-time highs.

Related:
Why Are Some Of Electrify America's Stations Failing In The Cold?

nai06 said:

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Some Junkie Cosmonaut said:

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nai06 said:

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At what point should people be concerned about Tesla stock price?

It's currently at $109.86 and has been hovering/dropping.

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You seem so desperate...

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I don't have any stock in Tesla and I don't think they are finished like the OP does. I was just curious what people thought was a point of concern in terms of stock price. At what point do you really start to raise the alarm.

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They have 20 billion in cash, and will have another 3+ billion every quarter. Their stock price doesn't matter from a business perspective as long as they keep making and selling cars. They are not Rivian/Lucid that are going to have to rely on stock issuances to survive the recessionary storm.

Thanks, I appreciate the insight.

hph6203 said:

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AgBandsman said:

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IDaggie06 said:

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Elon has lost by far more money in the last 6 months than anyone ever in their entire lifetime.

I like Elon, but his twitter antics have cost him billions upon billions via Tesla stock plummeting. I also doubt Twitter is worth near what he paid for it now. He should have sold way more Tesla stock before bashing liberals (a key Tesla market) publicly.

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Eloin has far more upside with Twitter than whatever money he's lost in his tesla stock this year. He's running the company successfully with a small fraction of the employees his predecessor used. and he's doing it publicly so that everyone sees how wasteful it was before. There's tremendous potential to take Twitter to new markets via video and digital pay avenues. Elon is doing just fine and setting himself up for massive growth at Twitter .

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He's lost close to $200 billion. That's around what PayPal and YouTube are worth combined. I think you're overestimating what he can achieve at Twitter.

His net worth will rise when Tesla proves they can thrive during this recession.

Announce new factories, announce lower cost vehicles, launch the Cybertruck, improve FSD. Do all that without obliterating margins and Tesla will moon.

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So, he went from $300 billion to $100 billion?

Can you show your work please?

hph6203 said:

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AgBandsman said:

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IDaggie06 said:

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Elon has lost by far more money in the last 6 months than anyone ever in their entire lifetime.

I like Elon, but his twitter antics have cost him billions upon billions via Tesla stock plummeting. I also doubt Twitter is worth near what he paid for it now. He should have sold way more Tesla stock before bashing liberals (a key Tesla market) publicly.

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Eloin has far more upside with Twitter than whatever money he's lost in his tesla stock this year. He's running the company successfully with a small fraction of the employees his predecessor used. and he's doing it publicly so that everyone sees how wasteful it was before. There's tremendous potential to take Twitter to new markets via video and digital pay avenues. Elon is doing just fine and setting himself up for massive growth at Twitter .

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He's lost close to $200 billion. That's around what PayPal and YouTube are worth combined. I think you're overestimating what he can achieve at Twitter.

His net worth will rise when Tesla proves they can thrive during this recession.

Announce new factories, announce lower cost vehicles, launch the Cybertruck, improve FSD. Do all that without obliterating margins and Tesla will moon.

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Tesla can't moon again. It already mooned. Demand for Tesla is tanking. People are buying from other auto manufacturers. California makes up most of Tesla sales and buyers in California hate Musk because of they are leftist (and most EV buyers in general) and Musk's recent public expressions haven't sat well with them.

Tesla no longer has a back up of orders and production capacity is now ahead of demand.

Tesla has 2% market share, far behind other brands, but the highest market cap. The market cap and stock price will keep dropping to reflect its market share. Tesla is a $10-20 stock imo.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/249375/us-market-share-of-selected-automobile-manufacturers/

Once again, Tesla is more than just a car company.

CDUB98 said:

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Once again, Tesla is more than just a car company.

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Show me their revenue pie chart.

On my phone, so not going to dig up the 10-K from here and can't post a pic.

I know it isn't from pure experience in my industry. Tesla is a leading supplier of battery storage systems in the US. Both small and large scale. Really, it's just a few models scalable to massive size.

They're about to announce record deliveries in Q4. They still have an order backlog, but it's shrinking. Funny how more deliveries leads to less wait times.

They dramatically increased prices and margins over the last year due to production limitations and have the ability to revert prices now that commodity prices have retreated some.

The majority of their sales are not to California. California is the largest market in the United States, but it does not make up the majority of total sales across the globe.

They instituted a $7,500 credit to account for customers delaying delivery until Jan 1, 2023 to get the new EV credit and sold out of what little inventory they had in under 2 weeks.

Their vehicles currently carry a 30% margin compared to Ford and VW who cannot sell their electric vehicles profitably and their dealers receive worse profits from EVs than they do from combustion vehicles. Meaning Tesla can reduce prices to account for any softening demand, maintain industry leading margins while growing production through their Austin, Berlin and Shanghai factories.

They're about to announce a new factory in Mexico and potentially one in the UK or South Korea. They will also expand the variety of vehicles they manufacture with the Cybertruck production starting in 2023 and I'm assuming the announcement of a low cost/mass market vehicle platform in the next year (likely built out of their Mexico factory).

Tesla sells as many EVs in 10 days as Ford sells in 3 quarters. Ford has to figure out profitability before they can really compete for overall market share in the EV space. Same goes for VW.

CDUB98 said:

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Once again, Tesla is more than just a car company.

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Is Tesla doing all his AI work too? Or is that another company?

Bought the dip before close yesterday. About to make some quick money by shorting this morning.

hph6203 said:

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They're about to announce record deliveries in Q4. They still have an order backlog, but it's shrinking. Funny how more deliveries leads to less wait times.

They dramatically increased prices and margins over the last year due to production limitations and have the ability to revert prices now that commodity prices have retreated some.

The majority of their sales are not to California. California is the largest market in the United States, but it does not make up the majority of total sales across the globe.

They instituted a $7,500 credit to account for customers delaying delivery until Jan 1, 2023 to get the new EV credit and sold out of what little inventory they had in under 2 weeks.

Their vehicles currently carry a 30% margin compared to Ford and VW who cannot sell their electric vehicles profitably and their dealers receive worse profits from EVs than they do from combustion vehicles. Meaning Tesla can reduce prices to account for any softening demand, maintain industry leading margins while growing production through their Austin, Berlin and Shanghai factories.

They're about to announce a new factory in Mexico and potentially one in the UK or South Korea. They will also expand the variety of vehicles they manufacture with the Cybertruck production starting in 2023 and I'm assuming the announcement of a low cost/mass market vehicle platform in the next year (likely built out of their Mexico factory).

Tesla sells as many EVs in 10 days as Ford sells in 3 quarters. Ford has to figure out profitability before they can really compete for overall market share in the EV space. Same goes for VW.

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"Look at me, I'm posting facts and not feelz!"

Whatever man.

Joseph Parrish said:

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CDUB98 said:

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Once again, Tesla is more than just a car company.

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Is Tesla doing all his AI work too? Or is that another company?

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I have not looked into who is doing his AI work. It is possible Tesla is doing it as it can be applied to the self-driving software and written of and an R&D expense.

CDUB98 said:

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Joseph Parrish said:

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CDUB98 said:

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Once again, Tesla is more than just a car company.

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Is Tesla doing all his AI work too? Or is that another company?

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I have not looked into who is doing his AI work. It is possible Tesla is doing it as it can be applied to the self-driving software and written of and an R&D expense.

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It was talked about in one of his longer sit-down interviews at Tesla's new facility…so I'm kind of assuming it is something Tesla was doing.

Tesla does AI in three ways. Autobidder, Full Self-Driving, and Optimus Subprime. They do their own data collection and software. There's speculation that they will eventually use Twitter data in order to help train the language model for Optimus Subprime.

Full Self-Driving:


When you watch that video, on the upper left of screen vehicle display there is the gear indicator (the blue D), next to that is a blue circle. That is the indicator that full self-driving is on. Tesla categorizes errors as either interventions or disengagement. Interventions would be like pressing the accelerator when the car is hesitant to go through an intersection. A disengagement is totally turning off the self-driving software because it made a serious error. During that entire video the car is doing everything with zero interventions and zero disengagement.

Optimus Subprime


When you watch that video, you have to realize that Tesla had only been working on the robot for ~1 year and that the robot is using cameras to perceive the world, whereas a robot like Boston Dynamics' Atlas is being pre-programmed to perform tasks and reacts to the world using sensors. They're more impressive looking, but less adaptable. Tesla utilizes an adapted Full Self-Driving vision software to allow the robot to see it's environment.

Autobidder

Autobidder is a machine learning algorithm used to make energy arbitrage plays utilizing both Tesla Powerwalls (exclusively sold alongside Tesla solar installations) and Megapack. They take energy from the grid/solar panels and timeshift that energy to higher demand times of the day. Buying or generating energy for cheaper and selling it back at higher prices. They allow residential solar owners to reduce their electric bills by utilizing their battery backups.

Bryanisbest said:

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Elon may care more about America than he does about money. Amazed there may be still someone left like that.

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I agree with this, he's stated numerous times, he can always make more money.

Biden checked the list twice, just like Santa, to make sure he didn't miss anything he's supposed to be doing.

Did the OP ignore much of the auto industry is also down over the same time period? Or that the market is also down over the same interval?

Does OP not understand bad correlations don't mean causation?

I think we should keep warming the Earth because then we could be fully rid of Somolian pirates....

Ag with kids said:

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hph6203 said:

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AgBandsman said:

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IDaggie06 said:

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Elon has lost by far more money in the last 6 months than anyone ever in their entire lifetime.

I like Elon, but his twitter antics have cost him billions upon billions via Tesla stock plummeting. I also doubt Twitter is worth near what he paid for it now. He should have sold way more Tesla stock before bashing liberals (a key Tesla market) publicly.

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Eloin has far more upside with Twitter than whatever money he's lost in his tesla stock this year. He's running the company successfully with a small fraction of the employees his predecessor used. and he's doing it publicly so that everyone sees how wasteful it was before. There's tremendous potential to take Twitter to new markets via video and digital pay avenues. Elon is doing just fine and setting himself up for massive growth at Twitter .

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He's lost close to $200 billion. That's around what PayPal and YouTube are worth combined. I think you're overestimating what he can achieve at Twitter.

His net worth will rise when Tesla proves they can thrive during this recession.

Announce new factories, announce lower cost vehicles, launch the Cybertruck, improve FSD. Do all that without obliterating margins and Tesla will moon.

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So, he went from $300 billion to $100 billion?

Can you show your work please?

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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-30/elon-musk-becomes-first-person-ever-to-lose-200-billion

Was more like $320 billion to $120 billion. He will rebound, but it won't be on the back of Twitter. He might be able to make Twitter worth what he paid for it in the next 3 years, and that would be a laudable achievement, because that's close to an all-time high for a company that was losing money.

hph6203 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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hph6203 said:

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AgBandsman said:

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IDaggie06 said:

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Elon has lost by far more money in the last 6 months than anyone ever in their entire lifetime.

I like Elon, but his twitter antics have cost him billions upon billions via Tesla stock plummeting. I also doubt Twitter is worth near what he paid for it now. He should have sold way more Tesla stock before bashing liberals (a key Tesla market) publicly.

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Eloin has far more upside with Twitter than whatever money he's lost in his tesla stock this year. He's running the company successfully with a small fraction of the employees his predecessor used. and he's doing it publicly so that everyone sees how wasteful it was before. There's tremendous potential to take Twitter to new markets via video and digital pay avenues. Elon is doing just fine and setting himself up for massive growth at Twitter .

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He's lost close to $200 billion. That's around what PayPal and YouTube are worth combined. I think you're overestimating what he can achieve at Twitter.

His net worth will rise when Tesla proves they can thrive during this recession.

Announce new factories, announce lower cost vehicles, launch the Cybertruck, improve FSD. Do all that without obliterating margins and Tesla will moon.

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So, he went from $300 billion to $100 billion?

Can you show your work please?

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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-30/elon-musk-becomes-first-person-ever-to-lose-200-billion

Was more like $320 billion to $120 billion. He will rebound, but it won't be on the back of Twitter. He might be able to make Twitter worth what he paid for it in the next 3 years, and that would be a laudable achievement, because that's close to an all-time high for a company that was losing money.

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Steve Jobs laughs at that from his grave...

But, it was behind a paywall so all I could read was that he'd lost that much money. Couldn't see their analysis.

200% growth in 3 years is rapid growth. Musk owned nearly 20% of Tesla. The market cap fell from 1.2T to a low of 340B. That's 170B loss, plus roughly 30B in losses from Twitter reduction.

I'm not a Musk hater, I'm just saying that there's a 200B opportunity in Twitter is non-sense.

Who is CEO of Ford, GM,etc? No one knows. .teslas is a cult of personality collapsing

TheHungryDonkey said:

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Who is CEO of Ford, GM,etc? No one knows. .teslas is a cult of personality collapsing

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Obamamotors is run by Mary Barra, a political choice after Obama decided to screw the investors/stock holders in the bankruptcy process in favor of the unions and his political benefit/control. She is a partisan, and a true believer in EV's. She was, and is a champion of all things communist/Democrat.

Jim Farley @ Ford, born in Argentina, same as my younger brother!

I would agree with this statement . He lost the most amount of money any one person has lost in history and inflamed anger in his customer base when they now have options to buy EVs with every major car manufacturer. Ouch!

Not smart and painful. Tesla will recover somewhat, but their advantage in market capitalization may never recover to previous levels. Twitter will never make the revenues to replace the Tesla losses.

Stating all that, I still think Musk is revolutionary with his investment in technology and should stick to what he knows. He just isn't any good at public sentiments/information for creating value. That's ok, you can't be good at everything.