AggieCo2023 said:

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Whatever one may think of Elon and his new conservative politics, it is an extremely questionable move to become a public spokesperson for right wing ideology while running an electric car and solar panel company. Liberals were probably 75% of his customers (at least) and he has completed lost them. I predict Tesla stock price will continue to plummet as Elon is clearly distracted and prioritizing Twitter.

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?" right wing ideology "

So now if you advocate for free speech you automatically become an advocate for "right wing ideology".

I am confused, isn't free speech one of the most important beliefs in a free society and government?

That, my friends, is the difference between a liberal and a leftist.

He's not a conservative. He's a moderate. He isn't right wing. He just has common sense. It's just the left is so bat **** crazy insane these days that anyone that's not a liberal loon is considered a right winger.

AggieCo2023 said:

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No but saying to prosecute Fauci,

• Fauci openly admitted to lying to the American public
• Fauce lied about using American taxpayer money to fund gain of function research in a Chinese lab known to have biosecurity issues(high risk of leaking viruses out of the lab)

urging his followers to vote for Republicans and endorsing Ron Desantis is I would say.

• You lump all Republicans in with your catch all basket of "right wing ideology? Seems kind of a severe lack of thinking on your part.

Nothing wrong with it, but weird choice when your customer base disagrees with it.

• So in the interest of money he should **** on free speech and not endorse moderate conservatives defending free speech.

Would be like if the Smith & Wesson CEO started making everyone list their pronouns.

• Seriously?

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aggieforester05 said:

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More proof that liberals do not live in reality and have an extremely poor understanding of current and historical events.

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If liberals understood cause and effect, they wouldn't be liberals. They never think. They only feel.

Must be getting close to buying.

Actual Talking Thermos said:

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The cars are kind of bad cars. The lack of QC and limited production capacity have been issues since the beginning, but at the beginning they were still the best EV. Not so much now. Now you can get a BMW EV for the same price, with much better quality and service. And soon that will be true of all the big manufacturers. Is Tesla in a position to compete in that market, with substandard build quality, less sales/service infrastructure, limited production capacity, a $15k price tag on the optional autopilot software that seems less than reliable at not slamming you into a highway divider, and the face of the brand seemingly determined to piss off much of his potential customer base?

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As mentioned before, Munro & Assoc criticized them early on their QC. TSLA took their advice, came back with modification, refinements and other improvements including reduction of the number of parts. Munro has pointed out the difficulty in engineering the GigaCasting and its tremendous (I don't think this word truly describes their achievement) impact on build quality, cost cutting and structural improvement.

BMW and the rest aren't making a profit on their BEV's. TSLA is making 30%, even Toyota only makes 12-15% profit on their leaders never mind GM. Service! You must not have ever owned a BMW specially after warranty!

Just go spend some time on YT paying attention to what Munro's Videos discuss.

And for the record, people complain about build quality of the McLaren too. Some people are just anal retentive.

AggieCo2023 said:

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Tesla stock is now down 52% since Elon Musk offered to buy Twitter in April, losing over half a trillion dollars in market valuation.

In just the six and a half weeks since Musk took over Twitter on October 28, Tesla stock is down 31%, losing $225 billion in value. pic.twitter.com/W1ukdbpkte

— 🦀 Jon Schwarz 🦀 (@schwarz) December 14, 2022

Whatever one may think of Elon and his new conservative politics, it is an extremely questionable move to become a public spokesperson for right wing ideology while running an electric car and solar panel company. Liberals were probably 75% of his customers (at least) and he has completed lost them. I predict Tesla stock price will continue to plummet as Elon is clearly distracted and prioritizing Twitter.

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This sounds very Chavista

Rocky Rider said:

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People critiquing Elon Musk's business, financial, and social sense.

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If he wasn't such a Nazi, he'd be worth $399B!!!1

richardag said:

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AggieCo2023 said:

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I am confused, isn't free speech one of the most important beliefs in a free society and government?

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Free speech was something liberals championed once upon a time. No longer.

VitruvianAg said:

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Admiral Adama said:

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RafterAg223 said:

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OP is clearly an economic illiterate and thinks that everything runs on feels. I'll bookmark this and come back to it in about a year after I've made a ton of money loading up on TSLA at fire sale prices.

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This post also reeks of economic illiteracy that is using the feels of flexing on the OP to make a bad investment decision. I wouldn't touch Tesla right now, except as part of a well diversified portfolio. Do you know some thing about how Tesla will justify their revenue growth to support the current valuation that the rest of don't?

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Do what you like I'm buying bit by bit. That said, you clearly don't understand TSLA is not a car manufacturer, they are an energy company focused on electrical power generation and storage with a hefty dose of software development. They are the next generation GE. They've exceled at everything they've done, and I'm willing to bet they will continue to do so.

BTW, diversification renders you the average market return, may as well do an ETF.!

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So, a bet that they'll figure it out how to make some more money with new products some time in the future. You may be right or you may be wrong. I see a CEO that is distracted with multiple ventures (SpaceX, Twitter, etc.) and getting into new verticals like HVAC and AI are going to be harder nuts to crack than people think they will. For that reason, I'm going to take a pass that the current stock price is fair market value of their discounted future earnings. If you disagree, I hope you're right.

As for rendering an average market return, yep, that's the point. I only invest in specific things when I'm reasonably certain I have an unfair advantage in understanding whether or not I'll beat the market. For me, that's very rarely picking the right publicly traded stock.

agracer said:

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nortex97 said:

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And yet it is still, today, the 8th most valuable company in the world. I'm not even a fan of their cars/EV's in general as some here know, but I respect that they have built...something a lot of people highly value.

I still think it's overvalued but I am not an investing/stock expert by any means. 2 months ago it was (about) equal to the SPY loss on the year, and realistically much of it this quarter seems to have been driven by their Chinese production/pricing/issues, which would seem to me unrelated to his twitter stuff.



Toyota, at around $200 billion, is it's nearest competitor by valuation, I think. This is a weird/pathetic way to try to 'burn' Elon fans, really.

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Tesla's value is not in their cars.

It's in the database of information they have.

Their camera's record everything and Tesla owns all that data.

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I can't break down how it is worth 200 billion, 500, or a trillion dollars. I think they have some interesting 'spin offs' and some seem to think they also 'give away for free' their IP but in truth that is just a sophisticated IP management strategy. I also don't believe for a second Elon Musk himself thinks BEV's are great for 'the planet' nor do I consider him a political conservative.

AI, battery cost advantages, Tesla roofs, data ownership yada yada, again, I dunno. I do think the cars themselves are nifty enough, in a vacuum analysis, they just aren't my thing at all so I don't really understand how to break it all down to make sense to my little brain. They still don't even have anything close to a complete lineup of vehicles, and won't anytime soon, throwing resources at absurdities like the semi instead. How much monetizable data does that really give them?

I think I should be a prime target for a company like Tesla as a consumer but I have never spent one red penny on anything with them, and likely won't ever do so. Apple I consider one of the top 10 'evil' companies (driven by progressive/communist ideals/leadership) in the world by comparison yet I fork over money to them practically every paycheck.

Just posted on tv, Disney has lowest earnings since 1970.

Actual Talking Thermos said:

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The cars are kind of bad cars. The lack of QC and limited production capacity have been issues since the beginning, but at the beginning they were still the best EV. Not so much now. Now you can get a BMW EV for the same price, with much better quality and service. And soon that will be true of all the big manufacturers. Is Tesla in a position to compete in that market, with substandard build quality, less sales/service infrastructure, limited production capacity, a $15k price tag on the optional autopilot software that seems less than reliable at not slamming you into a highway divider, and the face of the brand seemingly determined to piss off much of his potential customer base?

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• How much lithium is in a electric car battery?
• Amounts vary depending on the battery type and model of vehicle, but a single car lithium-ion battery pack (of a type known as NMC532) could contain around 8 kg of lithium, 35 kg of nickel, 20 kg of manganese and 14 kg of cobalt, according to figures from Argonne National Laboratory.

8 kg = 17.64 lb

In 2021

• Annual car sales worldwide 2010-2022, with a forecast for 2023
  Published by Statista Research Department, Oct 25, 2022
  [url=https://www.statista.com/statistics/200002/international-car-sales-since-1990/#statisticContainer][/url] Worldwide car sales grew to around 66.7 million automobiles in 2021, up from around 63.8 million units in 2020. The sector experienced a downward trend on the back of a slowing global economy and the advent of the coronavirus pandemic .....

66.7 million x 17.64 lb = 1,176,588,000 lb of lithium needed to manufacture all the batteries if we convert to EVs.

That's 1.18 trillion lbs. per year if new car sales stagnate.

How many lb. of lithium are mined/year? Since the batteries aren't recycled how much lithium is on the planet and recoverable through mining?

• Global lithium mine production 2010-2021
  Published by
  M. Garside,
  Jun 21, 2022
  [url=https://www.statista.com/statistics/606684/world-production-of-lithium/#statisticContainer][/url] Lithium mines produced an estimated global total of 100,000 metric tons in 2021, a peak in production. This is a significant increase from 2010, when global lithium production was just 28,100 metric tons.

100,000 metric tons = 220,462,262 lb.

Check my math, I am old. But it looks like we're going to need one hell of a lot of new mines opening to cover a short fall of 1.18 trillion lbs. - 220,462,262 lb. = 959,537,738 lb.

This is Biden's effect on the stock market.

It's also not just the mining itself, but a tremendous amount of both (a) fresh water and (b) energy needed to refine all of that. The waste products are huge/filthy, which is why the whole world is happy to outsource that to...Communist China. Oh, and the 'last mile' of infrastructure needed to charge the things in everyone's home/garage/carport/condo/apartment also needs a crap ton of precious metals (not a precise figure).

"Miner" details.

Admiral Adama said:

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VitruvianAg said:

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Admiral Adama said:

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RafterAg223 said:

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OP is clearly an economic illiterate and thinks that everything runs on feels. I'll bookmark this and come back to it in about a year after I've made a ton of money loading up on TSLA at fire sale prices.

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This post also reeks of economic illiteracy that is using the feels of flexing on the OP to make a bad investment decision. I wouldn't touch Tesla right now, except as part of a well diversified portfolio. Do you know some thing about how Tesla will justify their revenue growth to support the current valuation that the rest of don't?

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Do what you like I'm buying bit by bit. That said, you clearly don't understand TSLA is not a car manufacturer, they are an energy company focused on electrical power generation and storage with a hefty dose of software development. They are the next generation GE. They've exceled at everything they've done, and I'm willing to bet they will continue to do so.

BTW, diversification renders you the average market return, may as well do an ETF.!

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So, a bet that they'll figure it out how to make some more money with new products some time in the future. You may be right or you may be wrong. I see a CEO that is distracted with multiple ventures (SpaceX, Twitter, etc.) and getting into new verticals like HVAC and AI are going to be harder nuts to crack than people think they will. For that reason, I'm going to take a pass that the current stock price is fair market value of their discounted future earnings. If you disagree, I hope you're right.

As for rendering an average market return, yep, that's the point. I only invest in specific things when I'm reasonably certain I have an unfair advantage in understanding whether or not I'll beat the market. For me, that's very rarely picking the right publicly traded stock.

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Hello! They are making money now with their cars alone, more than any other automotive manufacturer! I believe more than all manufacturers combined and not just BEV!

Tanya just ***** slapped the OP!

VitruvianAg said:

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Admiral Adama said:

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VitruvianAg said:

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Admiral Adama said:

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RafterAg223 said:

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OP is clearly an economic illiterate and thinks that everything runs on feels. I'll bookmark this and come back to it in about a year after I've made a ton of money loading up on TSLA at fire sale prices.

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This post also reeks of economic illiteracy that is using the feels of flexing on the OP to make a bad investment decision. I wouldn't touch Tesla right now, except as part of a well diversified portfolio. Do you know some thing about how Tesla will justify their revenue growth to support the current valuation that the rest of don't?

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Do what you like I'm buying bit by bit. That said, you clearly don't understand TSLA is not a car manufacturer, they are an energy company focused on electrical power generation and storage with a hefty dose of software development. They are the next generation GE. They've exceled at everything they've done, and I'm willing to bet they will continue to do so.

BTW, diversification renders you the average market return, may as well do an ETF.!

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So, a bet that they'll figure it out how to make some more money with new products some time in the future. You may be right or you may be wrong. I see a CEO that is distracted with multiple ventures (SpaceX, Twitter, etc.) and getting into new verticals like HVAC and AI are going to be harder nuts to crack than people think they will. For that reason, I'm going to take a pass that the current stock price is fair market value of their discounted future earnings. If you disagree, I hope you're right.

As for rendering an average market return, yep, that's the point. I only invest in specific things when I'm reasonably certain I have an unfair advantage in understanding whether or not I'll beat the market. For me, that's very rarely picking the right publicly traded stock.

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Hello! They are making money now with their cars alone, more than any other automotive manufacturer! I believe more than all manufacturers combined and not just BEV!

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Yes, they are making a profit. No, they are not making more revenue or profit than other car manufacturers in auto, both individually and combined, even if their market capitalization is more than all other auto manufacturers combined. To get to it's current valuation, Tesla is going to have to sell ridiculous amount of other products, not just cars, to justify its moniker of 'we're a tech company'.

I'm not saying that Tesla is not a good company nor one that has a very bright future. I'm just saying I wouldn't pay close to the current stock price to have the priviledge of ownership.

Tanya 93 said:

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It is not new conservative politics.


It is actually being a liberal that doesn't have to silence people because what they say or believe makes them piss their pants like a toddler being toilet trained.


As a liberal who has been on this board since before you could walk, don't lecture on what he is doing.


Free speech was the anthem of liberals until pansies like you took over and need to punish people for different ideas.


Bite me.

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From the top rope! Go easy on him, girl. He's already dead!

WaltonAg18 said:

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Frederick Palowaski said:

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Thanks for finally admitting you think freedom of speech is a "right wing ideology".

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"freedom of speech" to your ilk really just means "my opinions and the ones I agree with should be boosted"

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You clearly don't understand anything about freedom of speech.

Semi is small enough volume that it is producible in existing factories, which is why it is now in production rather than other models. They're going to make <100 this year, and the volume is never going to be to a point that it would need its own dedicated factory. For the other larger production models they're going to need their on production facilities that have not yet been built.

Cybertruck launch is next year. There are rumors of a smaller two-door variant, the design of which can be seen at their Petersen Automotive Museum exhibit.

There are rumors (substantiated by Tesla highway signs, and land purchases) of a factory opening in Mexico, presumably to produce batteries and their compact EV/self driving model priced in the ~$30,000 range. It will be a while before they're producing it as a fully self-driving model rather than just a cheap entry point for consumers. Speculation is that will be announced next month, to be determined if the new model will likewise be announced at that time.

The head of design, during his interview with the Petersen Automotive Museum, was asked what his favorite design so far was, and he said that it was a model that he could not yet discuss because it was unannounced.

Shanghai/Texas/Berlin all have rumored or announced expansion plans.

Basically, their plan is to build a lot of cars, more profitably than their competition (there is no real competition from anyone that prices their vehicles competitively and turns a profit on the vehicle sale) and drive the relative cost of EVs down compared to combustion vehicles. To believe the present valuation you have to believe that they can execute that plan and that the demand for the vehicles will be there. I think Tesla will be price competitive enough that people aren't going to buy an inferior Ford/GM/VW vehicle for more money (in the long term).

Other near term avenues for revenue:
-Grid scale battery storage.
-Energy arbitrage by storing/distributing energy utilizing both grid scale deployments of batteries and residential home battery back ups.
-Solar with battery systems to drive home battery adoption

Long-term/unreliable stated objectives:
-Autonomous robot workers
-Autonomous ride-hailing service

People were shutting up anyone who dare say covid came from a lab. Now other than a few morons now know it most likely came from a lab.

Free speech is just that. Being able to let both sides speak then laugh at the stupidity of what they say.

deddog said:

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WaltonAg18 said:

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Frederick Palowaski said:

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Thanks for finally admitting you think freedom of speech is a "right wing ideology".

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"freedom of speech" to your ilk really just means "my opinions and the ones I agree with should be boosted"

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You clearly don't understand anything about freedom of speech.

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Why was the account banned?

I'm not paying for one of those cry-laughing emoji.

Sandy Munro just told via Reuters that Toyota (the most profitable Auto Maker) makes $1,273 per vehicle and TSLA makes over $9,743, a figure the go-to guy on all things in manufacturing (all types, not just cars) has never heard of before!

TSLA has so much money they can't figure out what else to do with it!

Here's just one way TSLA becomes so profitable!

AggieCo2023 said:

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Tesla stock is now down 52% since Elon Musk offered to buy Twitter in April, losing over half a trillion dollars in market valuation.

In just the six and a half weeks since Musk took over Twitter on October 28, Tesla stock is down 31%, losing $225 billion in value. pic.twitter.com/W1ukdbpkte

— 🦀 Jon Schwarz 🦀 (@schwarz) December 14, 2022

Whatever one may think of Elon and his new conservative politics, it is an extremely questionable move to become a public spokesperson for right wing ideology while running an electric car and solar panel company. Liberals were probably 75% of his customers (at least) and he has completed lost them. I predict Tesla stock price will continue to plummet as Elon is clearly distracted and prioritizing Twitter.

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You are a liar and this is a lie.

The OP doesn't know what he's talking about.

The price of Tesla stock isn't directly related to Tesla sales. Tesla deliveries are on pace to be greater in 2022 than they were in 2021. That's hardly proof of the assertion OP is making. Perhaps the stock is/was overvalued or maybe there are factors in the stock price that the sales increase isn't capturing (other issues in the financial statements or firm's health for example). Maybe investors have moved out of Tesla into other stocks for whatever reasons. But the average leftist isn't controlling the stock market -- he or she (or it), if the OP is correct, is not buying Teslas. Thus, OP is incorrect.

Though, that isn't earth shattering news.

One thing you can count on from leftists: they're either misinformed, lying, or not smart enough to understand what is really going on.

Here is the Tesla sales source, by the way: https://www.statista.com/statistics/502208/tesla-quarterly-vehicle-deliveries/

You're confusing profit margin with profit. Tesla makes a better margin they keep more of the cash that they make (margin). Toyota and everyone else has a much larger pile of cash (profit). Ultimately, we care about how big the checks are that somebody can write to an owner. You are paying a lot of money for a much smaller check from Tesla.

I'll make this real simple for anyone on this thread.

When in doubt about whether Tesla stays in business (not the same as stock price increase/decrease):
1) Tesla seed funding and likely operating funding was largely in part from DARPA and other deep state R&D money funnels. Why? likely to encrouage EV adoption/implementation and give the other big automakers someone to chase.
They aren't in the business of wasting money/time.

WaltonAg18 said:

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Frederick Palowaski said:

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Thanks for finally admitting you think freedom of speech is a "right wing ideology".

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"freedom of speech" to your ilk really just means "my opinions and the ones I agree with should be boosted"

Twitter has permabanned Jack Sweeney, who ran the Elon Jets account (also banned) pic.twitter.com/0iQxQQmILD

— Ken Klippenstein (@kenklippenstein) December 14, 2022

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Not to derail from the op fail, but, posting where various jets are is not free speech.

It's a security measure for people like Elon to enact such protocols to make it harder to track his whereabouts, especially since his is the current darling of the left.

It's simply not free speech and equating it a such makes you look stupid.

richardag said:

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deddog said:

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WaltonAg18 said:

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Frederick Palowaski said:

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Thanks for finally admitting you think freedom of speech is a "right wing ideology".

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"freedom of speech" to your ilk really just means "my opinions and the ones I agree with should be boosted"

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You clearly don't understand anything about freedom of speech.

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Why was the account banned?

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Because it violated the terms of service; providing live location data for harassment. See; the antifa punk who jumped on the car of one of Elon's kids, and antifa's various anger about their tactics of intimidation/violence no longer being tacitly allowed in all cases.

As a side note, Antifa & far-left accounts are furious that posting live locations of their targets is now a policy violation. They feel like a tool they use to direct or incite violence, harassment or robbery against their victims has been taken away. https://t.co/hFl1glyjYb pic.twitter.com/H49OQTa6MT

— Andy Ngô 🏳️‍🌈 (@MrAndyNgo) December 15, 2022

Interestingly, related groups are upset at/threatening Tesla properties/assets/employees.

Antifa were upset that a recent planned violent direct action against Tesla stores was reported on by me. They’ve encouraged their comrades to be more discreet in attacks or planned attacks moving forward. https://t.co/Q5DIDOZFzb

— Andy Ngô 🏳️‍🌈 (@MrAndyNgo) December 15, 2022

Elon is well aware of their tactics/threats/violence. Note: Antifa is just one of the brownshirt groups for Democrats.

Insane

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) December 15, 2022

Not gonna spend more time on this one, but what I have put here is just the tip of the iceberg as to why Elon changed his mind/twitter decided to go ahead and ban that one almost-innocuous sounding at first glance account.

Tesla is losing market share, and 60 million shares of Tesla stock was put up as loan collateral for Twitter purchase.

With the value of both tanking, and SpaceX struggles, Musk's equity driven networth may have peaked.

this gotta rank up two teas in how stupid of a take this is

91AggieLawyer said:

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The OP doesn't know what he's talking about.

The price of Tesla stock isn't directly related to Tesla sales. Tesla deliveries are on pace to be greater in 2022 than they were in 2021. That's hardly proof of the assertion OP is making. Perhaps the stock is/was overvalued or maybe there are factors in the stock price that the sales increase isn't capturing (other issues in the financial statements or firm's health for example). Maybe investors have moved out of Tesla into other stocks for whatever reasons. But the average leftist isn't controlling the stock market -- he or she (or it), if the OP is correct, is not buying Teslas. Thus, OP is incorrect.

Though, that isn't earth shattering news.

One thing you can count on from leftists: they're either misinformed, lying, or not smart enough to understand what is really going on.

Here is the Tesla sales source, by the way: https://www.statista.com/statistics/502208/tesla-quarterly-vehicle-deliveries/

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He's a teacher let that sink...Do only morons go into teaching?

Admiral Adama said:

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You're confusing profit margin with profit. Tesla makes a better margin they keep more of the cash that they make (margin). Toyota and everyone else has a much larger pile of cash (profit). Ultimately, we care about how big the checks are that somebody can write to an owner. You are paying a lot of money for a much smaller check from Tesla.

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Thanks, but I'm not confused at all!

I wish I had bought a little AMZN back in the day, but it didn't make sense to me how they were going to make money selling books. Their PE ratio is even higher than TSLA's today.

Got to say the same for GOOG, just didn't see how they were going to make money!

I know how TSLA is going to make money, like I said, they are the GE of the future and if you remember GE under Jack, then you understand.

But I'm now an investor and not so much a trader, though I have traded; quite a bit when younger. Lost a lot of money on GILD, I guess technically I haven't since I have never sold my expensive shares, and have bought bits here and there, enough such that I'm up pretty good over the last few years. GILD started paying dividends right after I bought my initial 200 shares @ around $112 but the dividend growth has been steadily increasing yearly on the clock. Even with its recent climb I'm not selling, dividend is just too good, same with XOM.