Neither do Tesla drivers. Super chargers are everywhere and always have availability in my experience.

These arguments are terrible because they act as if charging infrastructure is a fixed thing, and won't be insanely ubiquitous in the near future. Also, when the charging infrastructure includes your home, it ends up significantly more convenient than owning an ICE vehicle where you have to stop somewhere that isn't home to refuel.

I've owned a Tesla for 3 years, and drive about 30k mi per year, and my charging is something like 95% at home. 5% using Superchargers away from home. Obviously EVs are more convenient if you own your home versus living in a condo or apartment, but the infrastructure for charging far outpaces gas stations when a significant percentage of home owners simply put a dryer plug in their garage.

These are all things that are happening, and will continue to grow exponentially.

That argument is right in line with people that likely said "Internet on your… …phone? Why would anyone ever need that? Also, there's no infrastructure for internet on your phone!!"

I have no idea how old any of you contrarians are, but there definitely seems to still be a generational gap where the "olds" can't grasp how inevitable a lot of technologies are. They seem to think, "Well, if it ain't here, and mature already, it just ain't happening and ain't worth trying"

I'm an older millennial (knocking on 40), and I feel like since most of my generation grew up as the internet was coming of age, and we've seen so many crazy new technologies in our younger years that we almost feel like any crazy idea that can be dreamt up, is essentially just an inevitability.

Got some crazy sci-if idea for a lifelike humanoid robot with human emotions indistinguishable from real humans?

Olds: No way that will ever happen

Not-Olds: Oh yeah. Sounds kinda crazy, but also probably, definitely gonna happen at some point. A few lines of code can do anything.


Gonna have EV charging be more ubiquitous than gas stations?

Olds: Look at ALL these gas stations! There'a only like 1/20 that number of chargers, and they're slow! EVs will never work! There aren't enough chargers and they aren't fast enough!!!

Not-Olds: …YET!

2022 Ford F150 with Powerboost engine. I get 23 mpg combined.

ICE rules. EVs are just a fad. Like bitcoin and pet rocks.

So Tesla will be finished?

Lol, they all have their place.

Just don't want government subsidizing any of it... GM pensions or EV rebates.

Let the market develop the technology and consumers choose based on what best fits their needs and price point.

Teslag said:

---

So Tesla will be finished?

---

20-25% of the car market is nothing to sneeze at.

I imagine one or two EV makers will prevail for that market. GM and Ford if they are smart will stick primarily to ICE and bigger formats. Honda and Toyota would be wise to get back to their roots (or really stick with their international offerings).

Tesla has value beyond passenger cars. My opinion of their stock value, which I have not opined on, is driven by more than just the long term future of EVs.

Sorry your snark lost.

Teslag said:

---

Neither do Tesla drivers. Super chargers are everywhere and always have availability in my experience.

---

I live on NPI and in Corpus.

There is ONE Super charger in Corpus. It's at the mall in town - 20 min away. So, if I needed it I'd have to drive way out of the way.

But, with my ICE vehicle, I can stop at pretty much any intersection and fill up. Hell, there are 4 gas stations here on the island. I think the Best Western has a couple chargers but I think they might be upset if a non-guest went there to charge up.

Again...Infrastructure is king. And EV has minimal infrastructure. Until it gets built up, it's not going to be practical for the average person.

I think it was you that posted the screenshot of the Supercharger availability in the Houston area to show that they all were available for charging. There were TWELVE of them. In HOUSTON...a metro area of around 4 million people.

Oh ya, I forget that the number of superchargers have been set in stone and will never increase.

And again, most Tesla owners never need superchargers.

I imagine at least part of the March 1st discussion at Tesla's investor day will be about how to massively expand the super charger network. Currently they're making about 10,000 stalls a year. There are not enough right now in a lot of places, but I don't expect that reality will last long.

I never understand why anti EVs gets so heated. If I get an EV, what is the point of convincing me not to get one. I don't go around convincing ICE buyers why ICE is so bad.

If you want to buy an ICE, then great. I don't care if you need to haul stuff, want to drive a stick, want to rev it up, enjoy going to a gas station. Whatever the reason, go ahead buy one.

I mean, I would never get an electric lawn mower but I would never debate my neighbor who wants one.

I have driven 70K miles on my Model Y and have saved about 8K in gas/brakes which alone is worth it. I can care less is I need a new battery at 150K b/c my BMW would need some major engine work by then so I am willing to take that risk.

ICE will be around forever if the demand is there.

Medaggie said:

---

I never understand why anti EVs gets so heated.

---

I'd imagine it's because of all of the market interference by govt. Again.

That's my only gripe.

Teslag said:

---

Oh ya, I forget that the number of superchargers have been set in stone and will never increase.

And again, most Tesla owners never need superchargers.

---

When did I say or imply that. I stated that there is minimal infrastructure. That is true.

Sure it can change. So? What does that have to do with what I said?

Medaggie said:

---

I never understand why anti EVs gets so heated. If I get an EV, what is the point of convincing me not to get one. I don't go around convincing ICE buyers why ICE is so bad.

If you want to buy an ICE, then great. I don't care if you need to haul stuff, want to drive a stick, want to rev it up, enjoy going to a gas station. Whatever the reason, go ahead buy one.

I mean, I would never get an electric lawn mower but I would never debate my neighbor who wants one.

I have driven 70K miles on my Model Y and have saved about 8K in gas/brakes which alone is worth it. I can care less is I need a new battery at 150K b/c my BMW would need some major engine work by then so I am willing to take that risk.

ICE will be around forever if the demand is there.

---

The problem is that governments are trying to artificially end ICE even IF demand is there. See California for example.

Medaggie said:

---

I never understand why anti EVs gets so heated. If I get an EV, what is the point of convincing me not to get one. I don't go around convincing ICE buyers why ICE is so bad.

If you want to buy an ICE, then great. I don't care if you need to haul stuff, want to drive a stick, want to rev it up, enjoy going to a gas station. Whatever the reason, go ahead buy one.

I mean, I would never get an electric lawn mower but I would never debate my neighbor who wants one.

I have driven 70K miles on my Model Y and have saved about 8K in gas/brakes which alone is worth it. I can care less is I need a new battery at 150K b/c my BMW would need some major engine work by then so I am willing to take that risk.

ICE will be around forever if the demand is there.

---

You may not, but the tree hugger climate change crowd does. ICE is the devil and must be replaced. The government has a hard-on to replace them.

Some day I suspect that in order to convert everything to EV there will be massive taxes on ICE and fuel. Oh wait, there already is.

Shooter McGavin said:

---

Medaggie said:

---

I never understand why anti EVs gets so heated. If I get an EV, what is the point of convincing me not to get one. I don't go around convincing ICE buyers why ICE is so bad.

If you want to buy an ICE, then great. I don't care if you need to haul stuff, want to drive a stick, want to rev it up, enjoy going to a gas station. Whatever the reason, go ahead buy one.

I mean, I would never get an electric lawn mower but I would never debate my neighbor who wants one.

I have driven 70K miles on my Model Y and have saved about 8K in gas/brakes which alone is worth it. I can care less is I need a new battery at 150K b/c my BMW would need some major engine work by then so I am willing to take that risk.

ICE will be around forever if the demand is there.

---

You may not, but the tree hugger climate change crowd does. ICE is the devil and must be replaced. The government has a hard-on to replace them.

Some day I suspect that in order to convert everything to EV there will be massive taxes on ICE and fuel. Oh wait, there already is.

---

Being the tree hugger that I am, I oppose EVs because I care about the planet. Replacing ICE with batteries will turn earth into the moon with enormous lithium craters. Compounding this ecological disaster are charging them via fossil fuels and subsequently having to dispose of millions upon millions of spent batteries into the environment and their replacement costs have made EVs a disposable commodity.

This whole conversation is what is wrong with society today. People talking past each other and people not willing to compromise or admit there is another side. Of note, some ICE lovers here would like the ban EVs if it were up to them. While I haven't seen people on this thread saying it, clearly there are EV lovers that want to ban ICE vehicles.

Let the market decide. There is a great use case for both types of vehicles. Both types of vehicles have been given massive tax subsidies (see 2009 and the recent massive UAW pension bailout for ICE subsidies) when there should be no subsidies for either in my opinion.

From the people I know with Tesla's, no one bought it for saving the environment. They bought them for some combination of cool new technology, car safety, lower maintenance and operating costs and most importantly, acceleration and performance. Also, most of these people have a second vehicle that is an SUV, Corvette, or other high end cars.

I do think road taxes need to be equalized but even with ICE vehicles that isn't true because a car with 20mpg pays essentially twice as much as one with 40mpg even though their road wear is similar. Some states have tried doing this by placing higher registration fees on EVs.

PS. I don't expect my comments above to change anyone's opinion because everyone is hardened into their POV.

Kansas Kid said:

---

This whole conversation is what is wrong with society today.

Let the market decide.

I do think road taxes need to be equalized but even with ICE vehicles that isn't true because a car with 20mpg pays essentially twice as much as one with 40mpg even though their road wear is similar.

---

Do you even politics, bro? If the gubmit would stay the **** out of the market, we'd all be better off.

The reason I'm on this thread is that it seems like a healthy debate. In a debate, we actually never reach a conclusion that all agree to, just both sides get heard and anybody that doesn't have an opinion can be swayed.

I don't know any ICE owners that would ban EV's, although there are some goofball out there with diesel pickups that like to "roll coal" so to speak for fun.

There are plenty of greenies that are wanting to raise the cost of gas to tip the scales in favor of EV and legislate all fossil fuels away. It is about power and control at that point

We should let capitalism decide without artificial increases in costs to ICE.

Ciboag96 said:

---

Kansas Kid said:

---

This whole conversation is what is wrong with society today.

Let the market decide.

I do think road taxes need to be equalized but even with ICE vehicles that isn't true because a car with 20mpg pays essentially twice as much as one with 40mpg even though their road wear is similar.

---

Do you even politics, bro? If the gubmit would stay the **** out of the market, we'd all be better off.

---

Amen to that. The government screws up everything and then spends more of our money to try to fix what they broke.

Medaggie said:

---

I never understand why anti EVs gets so heated. If I get an EV, what is the point of convincing me not to get one. I don't go around convincing ICE buyers why ICE is so bad.

If you want to buy an ICE, then great. I don't care if you need to haul stuff, want to drive a stick, want to rev it up, enjoy going to a gas station. Whatever the reason, go ahead buy one.

---

It not that anti-EVs folks are even anti-EV and they don't typically get riles up.

Those of us with a healthy level of skepticism of EVs being the dominant mode of passenger and freight transport are labeled as senile ol fogeys who are unwilling to accept change and new ideas.

Thats just not the case. Most everyone not in the fanboi Tesla club just want the government mandates, government subsidies and government propaganda to end and let the free market decide.

For me. a free and open market on EV vs ICE is where I based my 20-25% penetration on. I could be wrong and I do not fault anyone for buying an EV. I have driven a Tesla with the autopilot and "sport" mode. Its awesome, but at this time its not for me.

Mandating I buy one and retrofit my house and put Tesla chargers in the LMI houses and MF units i build seems quite asinine and does not factor in upgrades to our electrical delivery infrastructure. Go Tesla! seems to consider all this ancillary and inconvenient to their quest for global EV domination.

Teslag said:

---

Oh ya, I forget that the number of superchargers have been set in stone and will never increase.

And again, most Tesla owners never need superchargers.

---

THIS, FFS.

Call me when homeowners everywhere are installing gas pumps at their homes for their ICE vehicles. You ICE guys are underestimating how convenient it is to never have to stop for fuel, for 95% of all driving the vast majority of people drive.

Obviously this is more applicable for homeowners than those that own condos, or live in apartments. But, it's huge nonetheless.

The charging networks are only needed for LONG distance travel, and for people who just can't charge at home. And they're growing rapidly.

There's nothing more convenient than your vehicle being fully "fueled up" and ready to go every single morning.

Such a biased take that fails to consider the varying housing units and density of residences in the US, particularly at the extremes of rural areas and crowded urban areas.

Also, you are arguing for massive upgrades to our grid to handle 100% EVs with no consideration of timing, costs and whether the demand will ultimately get to the point where all those chargers are needed.

Your blinders seem permanently attached on this. As I have said over and over, enjoy your EV and position that its the most magical solution ever! I simply... disagree.

aggievaulter07 said:

---

There's nothing more convenient than your vehicle being fully "fueled up" and ready to go every single morning.

---

I could keep 3 five-gallon gas cans in my office for under $75 and achieve the same thing with the same effort.

Going to be awesome to have nothing but EVs if China or other thugs pop an EMP.

aggievaulter07 said:

---

There's nothing more convenient than your vehicle being fully "fueled up" and ready to go every single morning.

---

Good for you

You'd have to stop at the gas station every day, fill 3 tanks, carry them to and from your and worry about spilling and smelling like gas. So while technically that may be true, that is incredibly cumbersome. Being able to charge my car like my phone is advantageous. That all being said I'm an ICE guy through and through. With a family, EVs are impractical for our needs. For my personal vehicle, that's a different story. I also don't really care much about the environmental factors for EVs and ICE so there is that too. Convenience baby!

Doesn't matter where you stand on the argument, Texas infrastructure could not support a high amount of EV as a percentage of use. I'm taking about power delivery as well as nuclear power production. To fill a fleet of EV on a yard it takes a build out of power delivery. To not crash the grid, for consumers, it will take nuclear.

fka ftc said:

---

aggievaulter07 said:

---

There's nothing more convenient than your vehicle being fully "fueled up" and ready to go every single morning.

---

I could keep 3 five-gallon gas cans in my office for under $75 and achieve the same thing with the same effort.

Going to be awesome to have nothing but EVs if China or other thugs pop an EMP.

---

An EMP would likely take out the gas stations and most ice vehicles as well.

Teslag said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

aggievaulter07 said:

---

There's nothing more convenient than your vehicle being fully "fueled up" and ready to go every single morning.

---

I could keep 3 five-gallon gas cans in my office for under $75 and achieve the same thing with the same effort.

Going to be awesome to have nothing but EVs if China or other thugs pop an EMP.

---

An EMP would likely take out the gas stations and most ice vehicles as well.

---

100% effective on EV vehicles

0% effective on old Volkswagens and jeeps.

The VW beetle will live longer than us.

The market chose ice vehicls a long time ago. Marxist enviros and their government minions decided to fund the change to evs against the will of the market. I will never drive one.

aggievaulter07 said:

---

There's nothing more convenient than your vehicle being fully "fueled up" and ready to go every single morning.

---

Half this country has their phone at about 10% right now. They'll be the same with their cars.