CanyonAg77 said:

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YouBet said:

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Beat me to it. Every car manufacturer is going almost full EV by 2025

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I think you meant 2035, but either way, Bullcrap.

IC engines will still be #1 for decades.

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Correct.

Some mfg's are sprinting toward EV's only, but others are not. I am buying a new car next year and will not buy from certain mfg's (FCA/VW etc.) again precisely because they are committed to abandoning the ICE consumer vehicle market asap.

Most have a model s plaid as a second car for fun. Remains to be seen whether or not other manufacturers make a vehicle that's faster and has better tech than Tesla but, given how Elon runs his companies vs how legacy auto manufacturers operate, I doubt it. If that remains the case, Tesla will continue to dominate the high end EV market and will probably end up making buckets of money licensing their tech to mainstream manufacturers.

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The woke Twitter class isn't his target customer, they don't have money, and the Republicans and Democrats with money largely don't give a **** about his antics or motivations, it's more about keeping up with the Joneses with a sexy car.

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Keeping up with the Joneses is the next woke cause for Democrats. Driving around in a Tesla hurts their woke rep.

nortex97 said:

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PCC_80 said:

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Libs would make up a big market for Teslas and now they will look for other EV.

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Isn't there a year waiting list for Teslas ? ?? How much of a deposit is required to get on that waiting list ? ? 20% ? ? More ? ? I think that Musk will be fine for a while.

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Musk is gonna be fine, period. Tesla, however, is facing some real challenges, and I do think that its 'status symbol' staying power is dinged up especially on the (irrational as always) left now.

I believe their battery production costs are lower than the other auto mfg's, however, and expect them to be able to compete consequently on price as well but I am not sure what their margins will be with precious metals costs continuing to skyrocket in the Bidenflation era.

Imagine being worried 'oh, for a few hours yesterday I might not have been the richest person on earth!' LOL.

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Yea, that's a pretty misinformed and myopic article from my quick perusal.

A year ago, I would have never bought TSLA stock, I'm nibbling bit by bit on new lows. I mean I have less than a hundred shares...but t changed my mind when it finally dawned on me when the robot was demonstrated. And I'll add I won't be buying a BEV, not in my lifestyle or how I want to get around.

Most people, including some institutional investors don't understand that TSLA is not only auto manufacturer, but that it's primarily an energy company, and electrical energy company with a lock on all of the peripherals that go with the automotive vehicle including a charging network, the leader in FSD (lightyears ahead of everyone including Apple and Google), the utility of AI which goes with the former and the robot, the manufacture of chips for his stuff, leader in the manufacturing process (gigacasting, pay attention to Sandy Munro), solar electric, battery technology to name a few.

If you do YT and you follow Steven Mark Ryan you'll get a good understanding of the BEV universe and Musk, and I'll admit he's a bit of cheerleader, but he's not woke and seems passionate and critical thinker and a good analyst of the sector. Let's just say you won't follow him if you're a liberal.

What is interesting is who passed him up....lol, vanity wins.

LostInLA07 said:

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Most have a model s plaid as a second car for fun. Remains to be seen whether or not other manufacturers make a vehicle that's faster and has better tech than Tesla but, given how Elon runs his companies vs how legacy auto manufacturers operate, I doubt it. If that remains the case, Tesla will continue to dominate the high end EV market and will probably end up making buckets of money licensing their tech to mainstream manufacturers.

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Musk has stated his patents are to be used freely to improve BEVs, he's not worried about the competition.

Not to get too far into the weeds on this but they have bought/paid for/licensed a HUGE number of patents related to EV's.

Their patent strategy is very different than most, but it is not a simple 'let's be benevolent about it for the sake of humanity.' In fact, it's a fairly brilliant way to ensure none of their competitors…outflank them on BEV's. If it were something more altruistic and less calculated-business-strategy, they could just publish their research as they do it, vs. investing a LOT of money in patents (per first link).

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Automotive patent strategies are extremely complex, and automotive OEMs build and maintain massive patent portfolios that can be deployed against competitors if necessary. Even though automotive OEMs tend to avoid suing one another for patent infringement, their patent portfolios allow them to engage in cross-licensing agreements to share intellectual property with one another. That is important if, for example, different OEMs have patents on the technology that allows a vehicle to earn the highest safety rating. By dropping out of the patent race, Tesla would be excluded from the cross-licensing opportunities that other automotive OEMs enjoy. Not having patents would also diminish Tesla's leverage over its suppliers, which could result in Tesla's suppliers using Tesla technology and know-how for the benefit of Tesla's competitors.

Obviously, Tesla is too patent savvy to let that happen. What Tesla really did was create a situation where it can use the patented technology of other automotive OEMs without having to enter into cross-license agreements.

Here's how it works.

Tesla spent years innovating and securing patents for electric and autonomous vehicle technology before announcing its open source patent policy. Those patents didn't go away with the publication of Musk's open letter. Patents owned by Tesla can still be enforced just like any other patent.

More importantly, Tesla's open source patent strategy came with conditions. If an automotive OEM wants to use Tesla's patented technology, it must agree to Tesla's Patent Pledge, which requires, among other things, that the OEM agree that it will not sue Tesla for patent infringement nor challenge the validity of any Tesla patent. Put another way, by signing the Tesla Patent Pledge, an automotive OEM effectively gives Tesla the right to use technology within the scope of the OEMs patent portfolio. If an automotive OEM doesn't agree to the Patent Pledge, Tesla can still enforce its patents against the automotive OEM.

This puts Tesla in an extremely valuable and unique position. Tesla developed much of the early technology around autonomous and electric vehicles. The major automotive OEMs including Ford, GM, Stellantis (formerly FCA), Mercedes, Honda, Toyota, BMW, Nissan, Volkswagen and others have announced plans to enter or compete in those markets within the next decade. Automotive OEMs developing electric vehicles, autonomous vehicles, or both, may find that they need a license to Tesla's patented technology, encouraging their participation in Tesla's Patent Pledge. Therefore, as more automotive companies enter the electric and autonomous vehicle markets, Tesla will be able to exploit its competitors' patented technology without spending time and money negotiating hundreds of cross-licensing agreements with its competitors.

That's a brilliant strategy, no?

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I'll check out the youtube, thx. I won't be an individual investor in tesla but I do find the company itself sort of fascinating.

nortex97 said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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YouBet said:

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Beat me to it. Every car manufacturer is going almost full EV by 2025

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I think you meant 2035, but either way, Bullcrap.

IC engines will still be #1 for decades.

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Correct.

Some mfg's are sprinting toward EV's only, but others are not. I am buying a new car next year and will not buy from certain mfg's (FCA/VW etc.) again precisely because they are committed to abandoning the ICE consumer vehicle market asap.

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Toyota is an outlier though (and I respect them for this).

Other manufacturers have already announced their complete line of vehicles going EV - Dodge, Volvo, etc. ICE Camaro has been discontinued. Ford Mustang will be only remaining ICE American sports car left....for now.

And this is all being "announced" to happen well before 2035. That date is the deadline date based on left coast morons declaring it, but manufacturers are voluntarily accelerating that timeframe. The question will be if that is realistic. It very well may be a pipedream; I'm just going from their announced intent.

You omitted the melon headed gunslinger, Alec Baldwin.

Yes Obamamotors, Stellantis, VW, Daimler, and pretty much the Italians are all onboard. The globalists are pushing it in an effort to limit individual mobility/freedom of movement, primarily, and a wealth transfer to China ultimately (dramatically increasing transportation costs/consolidating to mass transit/expensive electric transportation in the west) in the grand scheme of things.

"Their announced intent" is probably marketing nonsense, while behind closed doors they are designing the 2055 1/2 ton pickup with a turbo 10 liter gas engine

Rockdoc said:

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Don't worry. He's gonna make it.

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Yep. And just a reminder - he cut 75% of the Twitter workforce and it's still running fine. It's probably closer to actual profitability than it has ever been.

CanyonAg77 said:

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"Their announced intent" is probably marketing nonsense, while behind closed doors they are designing the 2055 1/2 ton pickup with a turbo 10 liter gas engine

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I wish but these jackholes are all in on it with the government. Now that we've signed into law that you are required to conduct a breathalyzer every time you get in your car and that the government will scan your face using AI while behind the wheel, you will be driving a federal vehicle in effect.

So car companies fully adopting government EV mandates is a foregone conclusion. The only way ICE survives is if/when reality punches someone in the face and they realize nation-wide adoption of EV can't be supported on existing infrastructure. And I'm not even sure that will matter at this point considering EU governments have now adopted the stance that citizens should no longer expect modern industrialization and simply having power 24/7. They have adopted a de-industrialization approach to progress going forward.

Climate mandates are more important than humanity.

YouBet said:

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bmks270 said:

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I think Tesla may be in trouble. Tesla will lose market share. A zillion new EVs are hitting the scene.

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Beat me to it. Every car manufacturer is going almost full EV by 2025. He's had a monopoly on the lone decent looking EV for years. Not anymore.

Now, will you be able to actually buy one? That could pose a problem since we already have resource shortages to meet demand.

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Wow. This is so wrong. Even by 2030 most cars in the US will be ICE.

Ag87H2O said:

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Rockdoc said:

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Don't worry. He's gonna make it.

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Yep. And just a reminder - he cut 75% of the Twitter workforce and it's still running fine. It's probably closer to actual profitability than it has ever been.

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Which would mean in time the Tesla's may end up the most economical of the EVs. The company would be likely running efficiently enough to avoid the bloat needlessly driving up costs of overhead.

Another thing-- as an American focused one, the Teslas would be taking the long range driving considerations of America more into account, and the relative lack of any kind of stations -- even gas ones -- in some places. Europe - with the big exception of Russians- is used to everything being close together and has unrealistic ideas about travel in the U.S. So it seems that as time goes by it may end up being the standardized reliable one, rather than the most flashy and hard to upkeep. Just as with ICE cars now- -- many of the prestige ones are not easily docked for repairs just anywhere or have parts.

We will see. What Elon Musk appears to have definitely achieved, at least with this poster, is first EV when get one will be one of his. Its not always practical or desirable to follow a boycott -- but a rewarding buycott is easier to justify.

Absolutely . Even if everyone wanted to
Which they don't we couldn't switch to all EV's by 2035. Reality will slap the vehicle manufacturers in the face in the next 5 yrs .

As far as Musk, I think unless he gets Clintoned he'll 100% be fine. He's involved in so many monumental ventures.

Tesla struggling? Just pivot and provide internet to 90% of the world at $100 per month, no biggie. Want a rocket, no problem.
Just sayin.

Jack Squat 83 said:

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As far as Musk, I think unless he gets Clintoned he'll 100% be fine. He's involved in so many monumental ventures.

Tesla struggling? Just pivot and provide internet to 90% of the world at $100 per month, no biggie. Want a rocket, no problem.
Just sayin.

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TSLA is not struggling, the stock is, but so are a lot of other stocks, pull up a chart of AMZN and TSLA, see for yourself.

TSLA has already sold cars they haven't even built yet. They are having a tiny sales slump here in the US because the IR Bill increased the BEV subsidy starting 1-1-23. Would you wait for it to kick in before fulfilling your order a couple months?

He is going to be in a big fight with the CCP sooner or later, that will be fascinating, different game there. Chinese propaganda and Covid are hurting him a bit there, but if his cars aren't selling in China, they'll go to another nearby market. Xi and his buddies only brought TSLA in to improve their domestic BEV tech, like they do with everything else. CCP's problem will be chip availability and if you know the state of chip manufacturing in China, you know that's a dead end for them for now. They can't make their own and the ones they make are barely good enough for trinkets, toys and low end appliances maybe for the IOT. They can't make mid to high end chips never mind design them, even Taiwan can't design them, designs come from US and Japan.

Like I said before, TSLA is not really a car manufacturer, it's making big money from them sure, for now, (and unheard of 30% margin) while the rest of the manufacturers either have low margins or they are losing money on their BEVs.

TSLA is thriving, even in this environment and TWIT is a fart in the wind.

captkirk said:

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No.

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Tex100 said:

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Libs would make up a big market for Teslas and now they will look for other EV.

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Wait, They will all buy Ford's F-150 Lightnings and install gun racks... Not going to happen.

WestAustinAg said:

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YouBet said:

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bmks270 said:

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I think Tesla may be in trouble. Tesla will lose market share. A zillion new EVs are hitting the scene.

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Beat me to it. Every car manufacturer is going almost full EV by 2025. He's had a monopoly on the lone decent looking EV for years. Not anymore.

Now, will you be able to actually buy one? That could pose a problem since we already have resource shortages to meet demand.

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Wow. This is so wrong. Even by 2030 most cars in the US will be ICE.

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That may be reality. Just going off most of the announcements we've seen.

Maybe it's more accurate to say you are going to have equal lineups of EV and ICE cars with each manufacturer while some will be 100% EV.