aggiehawg said:

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To me, that says they no longer care about covid. Because the Senate does not have the proxy/remote voting like the House does.

Hypocrites.

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I think that's one of the reasons why they're trying to push this bs monkey pox crap so much. We're talking a couple thousand people out of 334 million.

Tom Doniphon said:

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And? That's not a "liberty" of the current tax structure, it's a feature of it.

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Passing obvious personal expenses as business expenses is not a feature of the tax code, that's tax fraud. Using the tax code to lower your tax liability by charging fees or things like that that functionally accomplish a similar thing is tax avoidance. Tax avoidance is a thing that I would like to prevent by shortening the tax code to 50 page is there anyone can read. Tax fraud is an actual crime.

I'm not talking about fraud... I'm talking about using every single legal write off possible to keep money I earned. People too stupid to do so, deserve to be democrats.

That is not what the it's does

This bill will push more folks out of the middle class.

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To wit, 230 economists have sent a letter to House and Senate leadership arguing that the Manchin-Schumer bill has a "misleading label," and that the economy is at a "dangerous crossroads." They write:

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…the "inaptly named 'Inflation Reduction Act of 2022' would do nothing of the sort and instead would perpetuate the same fiscal policy errors that have helped precipitate the current troubling economic climate."

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The greatest contributor to inflation is government spending, why won’t Dems stop lying about their bill? It shouldn’t take 230 economists to verify this fact. https://t.co/BOZ88xCfu4

— Gianno Caldwell (@GiannoCaldwell) August 5, 2022

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The economic experts point to the $433 billion in proposed government spending, which they argue "would create immediate inflationary pressures by boosting demand, while the supply-side tax hikes would constrain supply by discouraging investment and draining the private sector of much-needed resources."

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The letter, dated August 3, was signed by Nobel laureate Vernon Smith, former Chair of the Council of Economic Advisers Kevin Hassett, former Director of the Office of Management and Budget Jim Miller, Robert Heller, former president of the Federal Reserve Board, in addition to professors from the University of Chicago, Princeton University, Duke University, the University of Virginia, Columbia University and the University of Notre Dame. That's some serious firepower.

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Link

McConnell should scream bloody murder over this. It is not like there will not be any GOP Senators potentially exposed if the Dems stop testing. Throw it back in their faces about how they are endangering others.

LOYAL AG said:

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There are two primary drivers of current inflation. One is runaway spending since Covid and the other is the shrinking workforce brought on by the retirement of the baby boomers. Which of those two is this bill going to address? Hint, it can't do anything about the latter. So how does spending eleventy billion dollars we don't have help the former?

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Not completely true. This is going to drive up inflation so much that Baby Boomers can never retire and have to work until they die. /only half joking

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I would rather simplify taxes. So long as the tax code is written by the wealthy to protect the wealthy,

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This comment is bizarrely ignorant. It's a progressive tax code. It's very bones are designed to soak the rich.

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The latest government data show that in 2018, the top 1% of income earnersthose who earned more than $540,000earned 21% of all U.S. income while paying 40% of all federal income taxes. The top 10% earned 48% of the income and paid 71% of federal income taxes.

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There's not nearly enough "avoidance" available. The tax code is patently unfair to the "rich".

Malibu2 said:

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Houstonag said:

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I hope those who voted for democrats are satisfied now. Incredible stupidity. How did they not know what was going to happen.

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With this bill? This bill is one of the many reasons that I voted Democrat.

15% minimum corporate tax rate current great. Prices are now going up 15% at a lot of places.

Getting the IRS back to the size it was during the Bush era, great. Why is a large IRS good???

Medicare negotiating price of prescription drugs and using it as leverage to save the government money, great. Congrats, you just raised the prices of medicine for everyone NOT on medicare (and boomers tend to vote Republican, so you just lowered prices for a bunch of Republicans and raised them on a bunch of Democrats - so I do applaud you for that)...

Tax credits to transition away from carbon intensive energy, great. If those other solutions were so good, why do we need to pay them to produce them? Couldn't they just convince people their product was better on their own?

Did this board think that every left of center voter all the sudden became a staunch every tax is theft climate change is a hoax republican? No. We know what you support.

My specific quibbles with this bill are the obvious Orwellian title inflation reduction act, optimistic bookkeeping on IRS enforcement, lack of anything nuclear, and lack of pure research into nuclear and battery that I would love for DARPA / Universities to fund.

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Life is easier when Malibu is on ignore. Gave him multiple chances but just not worth my time and effort to present any countervailing evidence. Mind is closed, falls on deaf ears.

cecil77 said:

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I would rather simplify taxes. So long as the tax code is written by the wealthy to protect the wealthy,

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This comment is bizarrely ignorant. It's a progressive tax code. It's very bones are designed to soak the rich.

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The latest government data show that in 2018, the top 1% of income earnersthose who earned more than $540,000earned 21% of all U.S. income while paying 40% of all federal income taxes. The top 10% earned 48% of the income and paid 71% of federal income taxes.

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There's not nearly enough "avoidance" available. The tax code is patently unfair to the "rich".

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No, that's not what I'm talking about. Avoidance is Apple Ireland owning the IP and Apple US paying a healthy payment to Apple Ireland which is recorded as an expense, and wouldn't you know it poor Apple US didn't make any money and has no taxable income. Apple Ireland is a wonderful low corporate tax environment and decides it wants to send its profits tax free to Bermuda. And then Apple US takes a loan on the cash that is sitting in Bermuda to make sure that its investors get their healthy dividends. And that debt service further reduces taxable income. Isn't life grand for our tech overlords. Meanwhile, your local HVAC supplier is sending their payment to the IRS.

Explain in detail how this bill fixes this problem.

And the local HVAC guy could take advantage of accelerated depreciation and eliminate a bunch of his burden too... is that not acceptable in your scenario?

Liberals continue to prove to be less-than-smart, racist idiots.

Liberalism is a constant failure, every time it's tried. Even this time.

15% on book profits, with carve outs for credits and depreciation. I have no issue with accelerated depreciation and loss carry forwards in particular, but that's deferring tax to the future to take advantage of the time value of money. Once that asset has been depreciated do you still have to pay on your taxable income less any carry forwards, and if you've depreciated your assets Uncle Sam has his hand out. And I would still put that specific carve out in my preferred paradigm of a 50 page tax code and have the senators argue what they want to put in and what they want to take out anytime they want to make tweaks.

On your earlier statement about the expansion:

Wanted to ask again lest it be lost in the noise. The huge irs expansion described you are saying is a size previously seen, and not some special measure of vast extra power? That's interesting and yes relevant if that is what the changes the two Senators imposed. If its not some unprecedented thing, then its not unfamiliar territory as far as the market reaction to it. But Bongino sure didn't like the prescription drug change and was talking about today on the impact on people with fixed incomes. That seems a real threat.

?itok=53PdhIOG

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15% on book profits

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Who's keeping the books?

Are dividends allowable expenses? Bonuses?

Dividends don't appear in the P&L. Bonuses would appear in the administration line. Bonuses are a completely valid way to lower expenses, but generally speaking the shareholders ask questions if it gets out of line.

Malibu2 said:

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cecil77 said:

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I would rather simplify taxes. So long as the tax code is written by the wealthy to protect the wealthy,

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This comment is bizarrely ignorant. It's a progressive tax code. It's very bones are designed to soak the rich.

Quote:

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The latest government data show that in 2018, the top 1% of income earnersthose who earned more than $540,000earned 21% of all U.S. income while paying 40% of all federal income taxes. The top 10% earned 48% of the income and paid 71% of federal income taxes.

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There's not nearly enough "avoidance" available. The tax code is patently unfair to the "rich".

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No, that's not what I'm talking about. Avoidance is Apple Ireland owning the IP and Apple US paying a healthy payment to Apple Ireland which is recorded as an expense, and wouldn't you know it poor Apple US didn't make any money and has no taxable income. Apple Ireland is a wonderful low corporate tax environment and decides it wants to send its profits tax free to Bermuda. And then Apple US takes a loan on the cash that is sitting in Bermuda to make sure that its investors get their healthy dividends. And that debt service further reduces taxable income. Isn't life grand for our tech overlords. Meanwhile, your local HVAC supplier is sending their payment to the IRS.

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Apple shouldn't pay tax and neither should your local HVAC supplier.

Both of them are just pass through entities for the federal tax, with an added expense of all the lawyer and accountant expenses included.

And the fact that the tax code makes Apple jump through all those hoops is brain-damaged....

There should be no income taxes on corporate profits at all. None. It's double taxed and that's immoral. Which is why no small companies pay corporate income taxes, all llcs or sub S.

Ag with kids said:

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Malibu2 said:

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cecil77 said:

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Quote:

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I would rather simplify taxes. So long as the tax code is written by the wealthy to protect the wealthy,

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This comment is bizarrely ignorant. It's a progressive tax code. It's very bones are designed to soak the rich.

Quote:

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The latest government data show that in 2018, the top 1% of income earnersthose who earned more than $540,000earned 21% of all U.S. income while paying 40% of all federal income taxes. The top 10% earned 48% of the income and paid 71% of federal income taxes.

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There's not nearly enough "avoidance" available. The tax code is patently unfair to the "rich".

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No, that's not what I'm talking about. Avoidance is Apple Ireland owning the IP and Apple US paying a healthy payment to Apple Ireland which is recorded as an expense, and wouldn't you know it poor Apple US didn't make any money and has no taxable income. Apple Ireland is a wonderful low corporate tax environment and decides it wants to send its profits tax free to Bermuda. And then Apple US takes a loan on the cash that is sitting in Bermuda to make sure that its investors get their healthy dividends. And that debt service further reduces taxable income. Isn't life grand for our tech overlords. Meanwhile, your local HVAC supplier is sending their payment to the IRS.

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Apple shouldn't pay tax and neither should your local HVAC supplier.

Both of them are just pass through entities for the federal tax, with an added expense of all the lawyer and accountant expenses included.

And the fact that the tax code makes Apple jump through all those hoops is brain-damaged....

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"Tax and spend policies that **** over the middle class while giving me good feelz so I can pretend I'm not responsible for the steady erosion of freedom coming from Washington?! That's WHY I vote Democrat!"

Malibu2 said:

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I'm not there. But I would support progressive tax rate for some thing like 10% of the first $50,000 and 25% thereafter. Everyone has skin in the game and the working class who sincerely do need to keep more of their money than those of us who make more get a break.

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Anyone
Anything over 10% is just outright theft.

Malibu2 said:

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cecil77 said:

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Quote:

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I would rather simplify taxes. So long as the tax code is written by the wealthy to protect the wealthy,

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This comment is bizarrely ignorant. It's a progressive tax code. It's very bones are designed to soak the rich.

Quote:

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The latest government data show that in 2018, the top 1% of income earnersthose who earned more than $540,000earned 21% of all U.S. income while paying 40% of all federal income taxes. The top 10% earned 48% of the income and paid 71% of federal income taxes.

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There's not nearly enough "avoidance" available. The tax code is patently unfair to the "rich".

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No, that's not what I'm talking about. Avoidance is Apple Ireland owning the IP and Apple US paying a healthy payment to Apple Ireland which is recorded as an expense, and wouldn't you know it poor Apple US didn't make any money and has no taxable income. Apple Ireland is a wonderful low corporate tax environment and decides it wants to send its profits tax free to Bermuda. And then Apple US takes a loan on the cash that is sitting in Bermuda to make sure that its investors get their healthy dividends. And that debt service further reduces taxable income. Isn't life grand for our tech overlords. Meanwhile, your local HVAC supplier is sending their payment to the IRS.

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You don't understand CFC corporate structures and GILTI tax regimens, do you?

It is obvious from the uneducated bull**** you just spouted above.

Glad to hear someone in America is actually returning to the days of working thru a cold, rather than retreating like a wussy.

I just never thought it would be the dems.

Maroon Dawn said:

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It so pisses me off that we had even just a slightly left of center media that the Dems would be absolutely unelectable if they actually had to defend their policies and didn't know they could be blatant hypocrites with no one in the MSM who will call them out

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I wonder how great this country could truly be if we had a media that simply did their job. The modern media is the single biggest failure in American history because they are so one-sided. Even if we just had one other TV media outlet and 2-3 major papers it would help.

As is, you have FNC (which even people on the right have written off) and basically the WSJ. That's it.

aggiehawg said:

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To me, that says they no longer care about covid. Because the Senate does not have the proxy/remote voting like the House does.

Hypocrites.

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They have never really cared about COVID. We all know it was released on purpose to steal the election. Masking had never been anything more than a symbol of loyalty, compliance and submission to the party.

My question is, what will they do next? Because they have been effective in their strategy.

Malibu2 said:

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?itok=53PdhIOG

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Your line of thought here is "this is the way we've always done it so we need to continue doing it this way".

What is your reasoning for wanting and supporting this? I already had a thread on this where it was pointed out that the increase in funding is almost totally focused on coming after the middle class with very little funding given to actual customer service.

Would love to hear your thoughts.

YouBet said:

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Maroon Dawn said:

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It so pisses me off that we had even just a slightly left of center media that the Dems would be absolutely unelectable if they actually had to defend their policies and didn't know they could be blatant hypocrites with no one in the MSM who will call them out

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I wonder how great this country could truly be if we had a media that simply did their job. The modern media is the single biggest failure in American history because they are so one-sided. Even if we just had one other TV media outlet and 2-3 major papers it would help.

As is, you have FNC (which even people on the right have written off) and basically the WSJ. That's it.

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We don't have media. Haven't for many years since the big trans global companies bought all the media stations. We have propagandists.