Did the vaccines prevent delta transmission?

4,291 Views | 139 Replies | Last: 13 days ago by Average Guy
beerad12man
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AG
Just curious if anyone has that actual data. I'm arguing with someone(yes, futile and stupid, but I'm bored so whatever) who swear by the trials, which I know looked good at the time. But were there any confounders? Was there data on vaxed vs unvaxed transmission last summer during delta?

I always assumed the numbers were a bit skewed in the trials because people who did the trial behaved differently but I know there were asked the behave the same. Then I assumed if there was data during delta that might suggest they help with transmission, that it was likely because vaccinated were less likely to get tested during that time. But these are, of course assumptions.

I don't know if we have real, actual data to argue this or if it's a futile effort.
AgResearch
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AG
No
beerad12man
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Not that it matters anyways. I've still said mandates have no place in America, to which the response was not according to the constitution. (nevermind I don't agree with that, but where does the constitution state employers can mandate EUA vaccines? Can they even mandate the flu vaccine? I really should touch up on that.
backintexas2013
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It never was supposed to stop transmission. Of course at the same time we were told it did and one of the the reasons one vax worshipper took it so they wouldn't get others sick.
Bunk Moreland
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They may have but likely no better than natural immunity from prior covid strains did.
beerad12man
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Yeah, there's a chance they might have slowed it down. I just know anecdotally plenty of vaccinated people who got delta.
MouthBQ98
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Better than with Omicron, but worse than with Alpha that they were engineered for.

They probably constrained it considerably but not enough to ever achieve a fractional R value.
beerad12man
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Can someone help me out on the US constitution comment? Does it say anything about vaccine mandates for respiratory pathogens? What can employers mandate according to the constitution?

I can't imagine they cover EUA.
waitwhat?
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beerad12man said:

Can someone help me out on the US constitution comment? Does it say anything about vaccine mandates for respiratory pathogens? What can employers mandate according to the constitution?

I can't imagine they cover EUA.
There's nothing to help out with. Matters of public health have always been the domain of state and local governments and the court cases that idiot is probably thinking of, Jacobsen v Massachusetts and others, are over state and local government mandates, not the federal government.

9th and 10th amendments make it clear that unless the power to mandate vaccines is specifically enumerated to the feds in the constitution, it's left to the states, or to the people.
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beerad12man
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Thanks. Yeah, since this is federal, my original comment " This has no place in America" holds true then.
Salute The Marines
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Not completely, but according to Israeli data they did significantly reduce it. Which is brilliant since it wasn't designed to prevent infection.
oh no
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I believe Dr Monroe said on Rogan that Israel is like +95% vaccinated (100% pfizer) and has still had a lot more cases, hospitalizations, and deaths per capita than the largely unvaxxed Palestinian authority and other surrounding states.
Romello
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Wedding back in July 2021. 10 close family members all vaccinated came away with breakthrough cases after a wedding. That's 0/10. Not 95%, not 50%, 0% effectiveness in preventing us from getting sick with Covid.
Proc92
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Salute The Marines said:

Not completely, but according to Israeli data they did significantly reduce it. Which is brilliant since it wasn't designed to prevent infection.
The original purpose of the vaccine was not to prevent infection? Brilliant, indeed.
FriscoKid
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Proc92 said:

Salute The Marines said:

Not completely, but according to Israeli data they did significantly reduce it. Which is brilliant since it wasn't designed to prevent infection.
The original purpose of the vaccine was not to prevent infection? Brilliant, indeed.

And total bull crap.
Salute The Marines
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Proc92 said:

Salute The Marines said:

Not completely, but according to Israeli data they did significantly reduce it. Which is brilliant since it wasn't designed to prevent infection.
The original purpose of the vaccine was not to prevent infection? Brilliant, indeed.


No. The studies used for FDA approval only used data that it prevented illness. Prevention of infection was not a metric.

Anyone that tells you they were designed to prevent infection is a liar or misinformed.
Tanya 93
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No camping this weekend

Benny has the covids
Salute The Marines
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AG
Symptomatic?
Tanya 93
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Salute The Marines said:

Symptomatic?


Yep

Chills
Fever
Body Aches
Congestion
Headache


Thought it was the flu


Nope
Proc92
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Salute The Marines said:

Proc92 said:

Salute The Marines said:

Not completely, but according to Israeli data they did significantly reduce it. Which is brilliant since it wasn't designed to prevent infection.
The original purpose of the vaccine was not to prevent infection? Brilliant, indeed.


No. The studies used for FDA approval only used data that it prevented illness. Prevention of infection was not a metric.

Anyone that tells you they were designed to prevent infection is a liar or misinformed.
Who's the liar?

NEW YORK & MAINZ, Germany--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- Pfizer Inc. (NYSE: PFE, "Pfizer") and BioNTech SE (Nasdaq: BNTX, "BioNTech") today announced that the companies have agreed to a letter of intent regarding the co-development and distribution (excluding China) of a potential mRNA-based coronavirus vaccine aimed at preventing COVID-19 infection. The companies have executed a Material Transfer and Collaboration Agreement to enable the parties to immediately start working together.

This press release features multimedia. View the full release here: https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20200316005943/en/
Salute The Marines
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Proc92 said:

Salute The Marines said:

Proc92 said:

Salute The Marines said:

Not completely, but according to Israeli data they did significantly reduce it. Which is brilliant since it wasn't designed to prevent infection.
The original purpose of the vaccine was not to prevent infection? Brilliant, indeed.


No. The studies used for FDA approval only used data that it prevented illness. Prevention of infection was not a metric.

Anyone that tells you they were designed to prevent infection is a liar or misinformed.
NEW YORK & MAINZ, Germany--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- Pfizer Inc. (NYSE: PFE, "Pfizer") and BioNTech SE (Nasdaq: BNTX, "BioNTech") today announced that the companies have agreed to a letter of intent regarding the co-development and distribution (excluding China) of a potential mRNA-based coronavirus vaccine aimed at preventing COVID-19 infection. The companies have executed a Material Transfer and Collaboration Agreement to enable the parties to immediately start working together.

This press release features multimedia. View the full release here: https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20200316005943/en/

Press releases mean D. What you submit for approval is hard data and your actual intent. Actions matter, not words.
BigRobSA
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Tanya 93 said:

Salute The Marines said:

Symptomatic?


Yep

Chills
Fever
Body Aches
Congestion
Headache


Thought it was the flu


Nope


That sucks, T93. Hope he is back to himself ASAP. Too bad he couldn't have gotten a pre-Sept1 definition vaccine that actually worked.
Salute The Marines
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AG
Also, do you have a link to the actual press release or just the report of the press release?
beerad12man
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FriscoKid said:

Proc92 said:

Salute The Marines said:

Not completely, but according to Israeli data they did significantly reduce it. Which is brilliant since it wasn't designed to prevent infection.
The original purpose of the vaccine was not to prevent infection? Brilliant, indeed.

And total bull crap.
I know yall like to rail on him, but yes, the original purpose and main goal of the vaccine was to reduce severity. Yes, maybe in March of 2020 they said prevent infection in that press release, but ultimately there is only one thing that ever matter, and that was severe disease. If you can prevent it outright, even better. When the data came out that they might prevent transmission TOO, we were sold a bill of goods from an overzealous government as to how great they were at doing so, which proved over time to be less and less true. This is where they f**** up, in that they advertised it to the general public this way. But even back in September of 2020, the stated primary goal was to reduce severity.

Transmission was always a secondary benefit that many got over excited about, and used to try to get more to take it, before having their dreams crushed later on.
BTKAG97
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beerad12man said:

What can employers mandate according to the constitution?
Employers are not restricted by the Constitution.
Salute The Marines
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beerad12man said:

FriscoKid said:

Proc92 said:

Salute The Marines said:

Not completely, but according to Israeli data they did significantly reduce it. Which is brilliant since it wasn't designed to prevent infection.
The original purpose of the vaccine was not to prevent infection? Brilliant, indeed.

And total bull crap.
I know yall like to rail on him, but yes, the original purpose and main goal of the vaccine was to reduce severity. When the data came out that they might prevent transmission TOO, we were sold a bill of goods from an overzealous government as to how great they were at doing so, which proved over time to be less and less true. This is where they f**** up, in that they advertised it to the general public this way. But even back in September of 2020, the stated primary goal was to reduce severity.

Transmission was always a secondary benefit that many got over excited about, and used to try to get more to take it, before having their dreams crushed later on.

Bingo, this has been my point exactly. Though it usually falls on deaf ears.
Old Buffalo
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Salute The Marines said:

Not completely, but according to Israeli data they did significantly reduce it. Which is brilliant since it wasn't designed to prevent infection.
Weird. Cause their FDA EU application was for "the prevention of COVID-19 disease in individuals 16 years of age and older"
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
Salute The Marines
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Old Buffalo said:

Salute The Marines said:

Not completely, but according to Israeli data they did significantly reduce it. Which is brilliant since it wasn't designed to prevent infection.
Weird. Cause their FDA EU application was for "the prevention of COVID-19 disease in individuals 16 years of age and older"

And? Disease does not equal infection. You can prevent disease but fail to prevent infection.
Old Buffalo
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beerad12man said:



I know yall like to rail on him, but yes, the original purpose and main goal of the vaccine was to reduce severity. Yes, maybe in March of 2020 they said prevent infection in that press release, but ultimately there is only one thing that ever matter, and that was severe disease. If you can prevent it outright, even better. When the data came out that they might prevent transmission TOO, we were sold a bill of goods from an overzealous government as to how great they were at doing so, which proved over time to be less and less true. This is where they f**** up, in that they advertised it to the general public this way. But even back in September of 2020, the stated primary goal was to reduce severity.

Transmission was always a secondary benefit that many got over excited about, and used to try to get more to take it, before having their dreams crushed later on.
This is also false.

Out of 20,000 in each the placebo and vaccine groups, the severe outcomes were 10 for placebo and 1 for vaccine - both statistically insignificant.
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
Get Off My Lawn
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My understanding is that the antibodies produced as the body "fights off the virus" would have some % of success in defeating variants while they are still present. But as the variants depart from the original and as antibody counts drop with time, the 'protection' fades.

So recent vaccines likely helped to reduce Delta to some material degree... while also guaranteeing that those individuals would remain susceptible once their vaccines aged and thus prolonging the whole affair.
JFABNRGR
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Salute The Marines said:

beerad12man said:

FriscoKid said:

Proc92 said:

Salute The Marines said:

Not completely, but according to Israeli data they did significantly reduce it. Which is brilliant since it wasn't designed to prevent infection.
The original purpose of the vaccine was not to prevent infection? Brilliant, indeed.

And total bull crap.
I know yall like to rail on him, but yes, the original purpose and main goal of the vaccine was to reduce severity. When the data came out that they might prevent transmission TOO, we were sold a bill of goods from an overzealous government as to how great they were at doing so, which proved over time to be less and less true. This is where they f**** up, in that they advertised it to the general public this way. But even back in September of 2020, the stated primary goal was to reduce severity.

Transmission was always a secondary benefit that many got over excited about, and used to try to get more to take it, before having their dreams crushed later on.

Bingo, this has been my point exactly. Though it usually falls on deaf ears.
IF the whole intent was to reduce severity of disease, than their priorities from the start were all ****ed up. They should have focused on a vaccine for heart attacks, cancer, automobile accidents, etc!
Proc92
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Salute The Marines said:

Old Buffalo said:

Salute The Marines said:

Not completely, but according to Israeli data they did significantly reduce it. Which is brilliant since it wasn't designed to prevent infection.
Weird. Cause their FDA EU application was for "the prevention of COVID-19 disease in individuals 16 years of age and older"

And? Disease does not equal infection. You can prevent disease but fail to prevent infection.
"The study also will evaluate the potential for the vaccine candidate to provide protection against COVID-19 in those who have had prior exposure to SARS-CoV-2, as well as vaccine prevention against severe COVID-19 disease. "

This is from phase 3 press release. What does the "as well as" clause mean to you?
FriscoKid
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beerad12man said:

FriscoKid said:

Proc92 said:

Salute The Marines said:

Not completely, but according to Israeli data they did significantly reduce it. Which is brilliant since it wasn't designed to prevent infection.
The original purpose of the vaccine was not to prevent infection? Brilliant, indeed.

And total bull crap.
I know yall like to rail on him, but yes, the original purpose and main goal of the vaccine was to reduce severity. Yes, maybe in March of 2020 they said prevent infection in that press release, but ultimately there is only one thing that ever matter, and that was severe disease. If you can prevent it outright, even better. When the data came out that they might prevent transmission TOO, we were sold a bill of goods from an overzealous government as to how great they were at doing so, which proved over time to be less and less true. This is where they f**** up, in that they advertised it to the general public this way. But even back in September of 2020, the stated primary goal was to reduce severity.

Transmission was always a secondary benefit that many got over excited about, and used to try to get more to take it, before having their dreams crushed later on.

It's still being sold that way. Proponents of mandates use the "prevent infection and spread" language all the time.

FWIW, I agree with you.
beerad12man
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Old Buffalo said:

beerad12man said:



I know yall like to rail on him, but yes, the original purpose and main goal of the vaccine was to reduce severity. Yes, maybe in March of 2020 they said prevent infection in that press release, but ultimately there is only one thing that ever matter, and that was severe disease. If you can prevent it outright, even better. When the data came out that they might prevent transmission TOO, we were sold a bill of goods from an overzealous government as to how great they were at doing so, which proved over time to be less and less true. This is where they f**** up, in that they advertised it to the general public this way. But even back in September of 2020, the stated primary goal was to reduce severity.

Transmission was always a secondary benefit that many got over excited about, and used to try to get more to take it, before having their dreams crushed later on.
This is also false.

Out of 20,000 in each the placebo and vaccine groups, the severe outcomes were 10 for placebo and 1 for vaccine - both statistically insignificant.

Agreed that it was too small of a data set to really draw conclusions off of.

Just saying they used it to sell to the general public that it would prevent transmission, to try to drive up numbers. Which again created more distrust and yet another public f*** up.

But I followed the process all the way throughout. Maybe it was just my perspective, but it was clear to me at least that the main focus was on preventing severe disease, and if they could prevent infection outright as well, then they were a miracle drug. I thought for a big that might be the case, then quickly realized the real world said otherwise. But they still did the main thing they needed to do.
Salute The Marines
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Proc92 said:

Salute The Marines said:

Old Buffalo said:

Salute The Marines said:

Not completely, but according to Israeli data they did significantly reduce it. Which is brilliant since it wasn't designed to prevent infection.
Weird. Cause their FDA EU application was for "the prevention of COVID-19 disease in individuals 16 years of age and older"

And? Disease does not equal infection. You can prevent disease but fail to prevent infection.
"The study also will evaluate the potential for the vaccine candidate to provide protection against COVID-19 in those who have had prior exposure to SARS-CoV-2, as well as vaccine prevention against severe COVID-19 disease. "

This is from phase 3 press release. What does the "as well as" clause mean to you?

Neither of those statements cite prevention of infection. Covid-19 is the disease, not the infection. Hence why they specifically mention exposure to SARS-CoV-2.
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