russ05 said:

---

Not the common ground I'd like but common ground nonetheless.

---

Look… I will acknowledge that abortion is an ugly reality (more common ground) and one that pretty much nobody that I know who has gone through one is proud of. But… it's there and it isn't going anywhere.

Global statistics suggest that banning them doesn't actually change the rate of them. I'd rather they be done safely and in a regulated fashion than not for everybody's safety. This is why I think just proclaiming abortion as murder isn't thoughtful or meaningful at this point with today's medical available technology. I think people who really care about this stuff engage in conversations about preventing unwanted pregnancies and the like… but those are hard ones to discuss and typically when you do engage in that, pro lifers bring it back to abortion being murder and women's lack of responsibility.

There are interesting things in the long term statistics around abortion that are actually a good news story for both sides… but I'd wager most posting their opinions on this topic here have no awareness of them.

Quote:

---

pro lifers bring it back to abortion being murder and women's lack of responsibility

---

Surely that is understandable though right? If you can acknowledge that someone could look at those 15 week ultrasounds and reasonably conclude that the living creature shown in them is a human life. And if you can acknowledge that, you are acknowledging that there is a group of people who feel that we are murdering 630,000 innocent children every year. Like I said earlier, if someone truly believes that how could they not bring it back to that point every time?

It would be the same as if I told you we were selecting 630k 5 year old kids every year to chop/tear into pieces but that's not the part of the argument that you need to focus on. You would be appalled.

I'm willing to acknowledge that not everyone who gets (or supports) an abortion is evil. The only way I can come to that conclusion is that I understand not everyone views it as murdering a child. If we all agreed that we're talking about a child, a separate entity from the mother, a living human being....then anyone who still supported killing it would truly be evil, right?

So in the end, the only argument that really matters is whether or not the living thing inside of a woman's womb is a human life or not. If it is, we need to stop killing them. If it isn't, then screw "safe, legal, and rare." It's just cells growing from your body like a cyst or fingernails so let's go have some mimosas and go for a mani/pedi/abortion.

ATM9000 said:

---

russ05 said:

---

Not the common ground I'd like but common ground nonetheless.

---

Look… I will acknowledge that abortion is an ugly reality (more common ground) and one that pretty much nobody that I know who has gone through one is proud of. But… it's there and it isn't going anywhere.

Global statistics suggest that banning them doesn't actually change the rate of them. I'd rather they be done safely and in a regulated fashion than not for everybody's safety. This is why I think just proclaiming abortion as murder isn't thoughtful or meaningful at this point with today's medical available technology. I think people who really care about this stuff engage in conversations about preventing unwanted pregnancies and the like… but those are hard ones to discuss and typically when you do engage in that, pro lifers bring it back to abortion being murder and women's lack of responsibility.

There are interesting things in the long term statistics around abortion that are actually a good news story for both sides… but I'd wager most posting their opinions on this topic here have no awareness of them.

---

dont know how you can look at abortion and not sure a baby being murdered

you want to not view it for what it is to justify it. you feel better by sayings its messy but you knowingly turn a blind eye to the murder happening before you

ATM9000 said:

---

russ05 said:

---

Not the common ground I'd like but common ground nonetheless.

---

Look… I will acknowledge that abortion is an ugly reality (more common ground) and one that pretty much nobody that I know who has gone through one is proud of. But… it's there and it isn't going anywhere.

Global statistics suggest that banning them doesn't actually change the rate of them. I'd rather they be done safely and in a regulated fashion than not for everybody's safety. This is why I think just proclaiming abortion as murder isn't thoughtful or meaningful at this point with today's medical available technology. I think people who really care about this stuff engage in conversations about preventing unwanted pregnancies and the like… but those are hard ones to discuss and typically when you do engage in that, pro lifers bring it back to abortion being murder and women's lack of responsibility.

There are interesting things in the long term statistics around abortion that are actually a good news story for both sides… but I'd wager most posting their opinions on this topic here have no awareness of them.

---

WTH does that mean? Because we can kill them easily it makes it ok?

Martin Cash said:

---

ATM9000 said:

---

russ05 said:

---

Not the common ground I'd like but common ground nonetheless.

---

Look… I will acknowledge that abortion is an ugly reality (more common ground) and one that pretty much nobody that I know who has gone through one is proud of. But… it's there and it isn't going anywhere.

Global statistics suggest that banning them doesn't actually change the rate of them. I'd rather they be done safely and in a regulated fashion than not for everybody's safety. This is why I think just proclaiming abortion as murder isn't thoughtful or meaningful at this point with today's medical available technology. I think people who really care about this stuff engage in conversations about preventing unwanted pregnancies and the like… but those are hard ones to discuss and typically when you do engage in that, pro lifers bring it back to abortion being murder and women's lack of responsibility.

There are interesting things in the long term statistics around abortion that are actually a good news story for both sides… but I'd wager most posting their opinions on this topic here have no awareness of them.

---

WTH does that mean? Because we can kill them easily it makes it ok?

---

You're never going to convince people that want to look at abortion as a mathematical equation that it is wrong. They overtly reject the basic moral principle that abortion is the murder of a human being. Without acknowledgement of that principle, there is no common ground to be had.

Pro-abortionists will site all the crime statistics, or women's pay statistics, etc. because they are looking for a rationale justification of what is obviously a barbaric practice. I don't know why they think all these statistics that reflect subjective societal goals are a good argument for genocide, but they do. If you ask me if I'd rather murder millions of babies or have fewer women in the workforce, I think the answer is obvious

Here is the sum of the matter. Abortion is either murder or it isn't. If it is, it should be treated as such. If it isn't, then none of this debate really matters. It's about as immoral as removing a wart. I, personally, do not understand how you can say that the intentional termination of a living, unique human being is not murder. I think the burden of proof is on the pro-abortion side to state the exact moment in gestation when a person becomes a person. I have yet to see any convincing argument to that point.