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AtticusMatlock said:

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Baldwin acted recklessly in his own right.

He's on camera playing with the guns between takes like a five year old with a cap gun.

He broke cardinal rule number one of firearms: Never, ever point a firearm at someone unless you intend to shoot them. For this particular shot he was not supposed to do anything other than slowly pull the gun out of the holster. He decided to change his motion at the last minute without telling anyone and without taking any safety precautions to get people out of the way of the barrel. At no point was he supposed to pull the trigger in the shot.

He did his little kid playing with guns thing and waved it as he was pulling it out of the holster, pretending to be a bad ass, and pulled the trigger because he was having a good time with the gun in his hand. He had no idea the gun was loaded with live ammunition, but it was his duty to not pull the trigger and especially to not pull the trigger when people were in front of the gun.

Then he lied multiple times to investigators and told at least three different stories as to what happened.

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I hope he somehow gets 20 to life. Prob a pipe dream though.

AtticusMatlock said:

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Baldwin acted recklessly in his own right.

He's on camera playing with the guns between takes like a five year old with a cap gun.

He broke cardinal rule number one of firearms: Never, ever point a firearm at someone unless you intend to shoot them. For this particular shot he was not supposed to do anything other than slowly pull the gun out of the holster. He decided to change his motion at the last minute without telling anyone and without taking any safety precautions to get people out of the way of the barrel. At no point was he supposed to pull the trigger in the shot.

He did his little kid playing with guns thing and waved it as he was pulling it out of the holster, pretending to be a bad ass, and pulled the trigger because he was having a good time with the gun in his hand. He had no idea the gun was loaded with live ammunition, but it was his duty to not pull the trigger and especially to not pull the trigger when people were in front of the gun.

Then he lied multiple times to investigators and told at least three different stories as to what happened.

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That's good to know.

He really needs to serve time as well.

annie88 said:

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Quote:

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"I find that what you did constitutes a serious, violent offense," Sommer said following the sentencing. "It was committed in a physically violent manner. A fatal gunshot done with your recklessness in the face of knowledge that your acts were reasonably likely to result in serious harm."

"You were the armorer, the one that's to be between a safe weapon and a weapon that could kill someone. You alone turned a safe weapon into a lethal weapon. But for you, Mrs. Hutchins would be alive, a husband would have his partner and a little boy would have his mother. Please take her."

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Um, that might help Baldwin.

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Maybe, but Baldwin was also the adult who was playing around with a weapon like it's a toy. Even a gun loaded with blanks is incredibly dangerous, which Baldwin should have known. If he didn't know, it's only because he skipped safety talks or didn't pay attention because he was on his phone.

He was also pretty involved in production, it seems. He was responsible for leading the production and fostered an environment that put safety behind meeting the schedule.

This is worth a listen. A lawyer breaks down the prosecutor's reply to Baldwin's motion to dismiss. If she can prove what she's claiming to be able to prove it's going to be a bad time for Baldwin.

That is 'spicy'.

But seriously, the part about him developing his narrative in the immediate aftermath of the shooting and not listening to instructions over and over and being a loose canon.

This guy is also is very uncomplimentary of Baldwin's legal team and Baldwin himself being so arrogant with all his publicity then claiming the prosecutors are to get publicity. Him ignoring any kind of plea deal isn't impressive either.

What a cluster.

You're right that's not good for him.

annie88 said:

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That is 'spicy'.

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I watched a lot of Hannah's trial. That prosecutor seems to be on a mission from God, she'd so dogged.

Now Hannah's counsel was definitely not up to the challenge and Baldwin's lawyers will be far more competent to stand up to her but at the end of the day their client is the highly disagreeable Alec Baldwin.

If he takes the stand? My prediction is pain for Alec. She'll get him all twisted up. She is pretty good at circling back around to seemingly innocuous questions early in her exams later on and zeroing in for the gotcha question. When she tries that with Baldwin, defense counsel will know what she is doing but the manner in which she phrases those early questions just are not really objectionable on their face.

IOW, his lawyers will see the train coming down the track but can't stop it. Having said that, the prosecutor is not herself particularly likeable. My limited praise of her extends to her strategy and ability to ask good questions most of the time. She can be a pill and rankle at times too.

Sounds like between the prosecutor and Baldwin himself it's going to be rather explosive.

So this is a game of trying to trick someone into saying the wrong thing?

That's not justice.

TexasRebel said:

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So this is a game of trying to trick someone into saying the wrong thing?

That's not justice.

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I suspect that they want Baldwin to tell the truth. If he does, then his goose is probably cooked. If he doesn't, they will hopefully be ready to show that he is lying.

If the armorer got involuntary manslaughter, then Balwin (who also didn't follow the safety protocols and actually aimed and pulled the trigger) should as well.

Just his antics with the gun and disregard of safety meetings show a willful disdain to gun safety. They don't need his testimony and he'd be a fool to put himself up on the stand.

The being said, in CA he'd walk, in NM? Not so sure. I could see most of the jury pool in NM being at least somewhat knowledgeable about gun safety and everything pretty much says safety was damned near nonexistent in this situation.

TexasRebel said:

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So this is a game of trying to trick someone into saying the wrong thing?

That's not justice.

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That is our legal system, this isn't new. The way you phrased it is the cynical way, a more positive way to say it would be "a game of trying to phrase things in a way that creates inconsistencies in the response by drawing attention towards semantics and away from meaning".

The classic example, "I never touched her!" could often be said accurately, in context meaning I didn't hit her, but the lawyer would take it literally and instead say, "in twenty years of marriage you never touched your wife? How did you have two kids?"

annie88 said:

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That is 'spicy'.

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Like a Schwetty wiener?

I quit following this a long time ago.

Was it ever explained as to how actual live rounds of ammunition were in the mix? That's the part that just kills me as someone that works with firearms for a living.

CanyonAg77 said:

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The armorer was an idiot. She and others on the film were putting live rounds in the prop guns and shooting crap after hours.

To even have live rounds on the same set shows she didn't know the job she was hired to do

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At that age and experience level, she didn't get hired because of her vast knowledge of firearms. They (the hiring people) took this job as a starter job to get into the industry. If it hadn't been her it would have been some other family member or friend of someone in the business.

If baldwin wasn't so incompetent with guns, she would be on her way to the next movie job, a disaster waiting to eventually happen.

annie88 said:

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Sounds like between the prosecutor and Baldwin himself it's going to be rather explosive.

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Hopefully he'll be placed in Jeffrey Epstein's jail cell.

Recently saw the "armorer" on TV. Attractive young woman. Seems likely that was the reason she was hired, not her gun knowledge

Texas Yarddog said:

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If the armorer got involuntary manslaughter, then Balwin (who also didn't follow the safety protocols and actually aimed and pulled the trigger) should as well.

Just his antics with the gun and disregard of safety meetings show a willful disdain to gun safety. They don't need his testimony and he'd be a fool to put himself up on the stand.

The being said, in CA he'd walk, in NM? Not so sure. I could see most of the jury pool in NM being at least somewhat knowledgeable about gun safety and everything pretty much says safety was damned near nonexistent in this situation.

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I think he's too arrogant NOT to take the stand, but we will see. Now that he sees that the other girl has been convicted and sentenced, he may not be so cocky anymore.

InfantryAg said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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The armorer was an idiot. She and others on the film were putting live rounds in the prop guns and shooting crap after hours.

To even have live rounds on the same set shows she didn't know the job she was hired to do

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At that age and experience level, she didn't get hired because of her vast knowledge of firearms. They (the hiring people) took this job as a starter job to get into the industry. If it hadn't been her it would have been some other family member or friend of someone in the business.

If baldwin wasn't so incompetent with guns, she would be on her way to the next movie job, a disaster waiting to eventually happen.

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True but at the same time, her father was a well-known armorer in the business. That's most likely how she got the job.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Recently saw the "armorer" on TV. Attractive young woman. Seems likely that was the reason she was hired, not her gun knowledge

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Recently saw the "armorer" on TV. Attractive young woman. Seems likely that was the reason she was hired, not her gun knowledge

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Surely you can look at a woman beyond just her looks. Would you appreciate someone saying this about your daughter? How you want to be treated, treat others.

Surely you realize this is Hollywood?

And it appears she will come off better being judged by her looks than for her skills as an armorer.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Surely you realize this is Hollywood?

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Women have more value than for you to stare at. She's someone's daughter.

Pro Sandy said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Surely you realize this is Hollywood?

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Women have more value than for you to stare at. She's someone's daughter.

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Not my values. I was commenting on why she is valued in Hollywood

And her value as an armorer is pretty much nil

Pro Sandy said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Recently saw the "armorer" on TV. Attractive young woman. Seems likely that was the reason she was hired, not her gun knowledge

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Surely you can look at a woman beyond just her looks. Would you appreciate someone saying this about your daughter? How you want to be treated, treat others.

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If a woman smart enough to take advantage of idiots in a way that she can sleep at night, good for her.

Urban Ag said:

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annie88 said:

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That is 'spicy'.

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Like a Schwetty wiener?

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That's funny, but no, if you listen to the guy in the video, he mentions how a lot of the information in the case so far is "spicy"

CanyonAg77 said:

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Pro Sandy said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Surely you realize this is Hollywood?

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Women have more value than for you to stare at. She's someone's daughter.

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Not my values. I was commenting on why she is valued in Hollywood

And her value as an armorer is pretty much nil

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Again, as I mentioned earlier to another poster, her father was a well-known armorer in Hollywood for years. She was apparently brought up around it and trained by him so she wasn't just a complete grab out of the blue, but it does sound like she wasn't as experienced as she should've been.

annie88 said:

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InfantryAg said:

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At that age and experience level, she didn't get hired because of her vast knowledge of firearms. They (the hiring people) took this job as a starter job to get into the industry. If it hadn't been her it would have been some other family member or friend of someone in the business.

If baldwin wasn't so incompetent with guns, she would be on her way to the next movie job, a disaster waiting to eventually happen.

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True but at the same time, her father was a well-known armorer in the business. That's most likely how she got the job.

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Didn't know that and I can see that was a more direct reason. I wonder how competent the dad is now. I've seen plenty of guys who have been around firearms their whole life and still act like amateurs.

Also makes me wonder about the guilt he must have for not instilling in her to do the proper thing. Live ammo, playing around on set + the normalization of deviancy, to borrow an aeronautical term.

InfantryAg said:

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annie88 said:

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InfantryAg said:

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At that age and experience level, she didn't get hired because of her vast knowledge of firearms. They (the hiring people) took this job as a starter job to get into the industry. If it hadn't been her it would have been some other family member or friend of someone in the business.

If baldwin wasn't so incompetent with guns, she would be on her way to the next movie job, a disaster waiting to eventually happen.

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True but at the same time, her father was a well-known armorer in the business. That's most likely how she got the job.

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Didn't know that and I can see that was a more direct reason. I wonder how competent the dad is now. I've seen plenty of guys who have been around firearms their whole life and still act like amateurs.

Also makes me wonder about the guilt he must have for not instilling in her to do the proper thing. Live ammo, playing around on set + the normalization of deviancy, to borrow an aeronautical term.

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Oh absolutely. I mean, I think she was obviously being very lax and probably did not have the credentials she really needed. And I would imagine that dad is very conflicted. But from other things I've heard Baldwin was acting the same way, rushing, careless on other aspects during the filming. It was all a bit of a cluster.

Funny thing is there's two actors that are in that movie that I really love, Travis Fimmel, who played Ragnar on Vikings and Jensen Ackles, who played Dean on supernatural.

Supposedly the movie is or has been finished and they are still going to release it, but seems kind of tainted.

I just don't see how you can convict this girl and send her to 18 months and not give Baldwin anything. That just makes no sense. I don't care who he is. I used to really like him both personality wise and as an actor but the last 10 years or so he's just becoming the most rude, vain jerk, and not just in regards to Trump. Of course that doesn't mean that I would want him to serve time because I don't like him, but in this case, he definitely should get at least some time

Her job was armorer. Baldwins job was actor. Based on that, she is much more culpable than he.

However, I think I saw that Baldwin was producer. So ultimate responsibility is his, if true. He hired her, he should have supervised her.

I still think this all falls on Hollywood "culture". They pretend to hate guns, so they refuse to own them privately, or be educated about guns.

At the same time, they absolutely LOVE to make movies with guns in them, most of the movies where "a good guy with a gun" saves the day.

Then they go home and hate the NRA for saying that private citizens can be good guys with guns

CanyonAg77 said:

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Her job was armorer. Baldwins job was actor. Based on that, she is much more culpable than he.

However, I think I saw that Baldwin was producer. So ultimate responsibility is his, if true. He hired her, he should have supervised her.

I still think this all falls on Hollywood "culture". They pretend to hate guns, so they refuse to own them privately, or be educated about guns.

At the same time, they absolutely LOVE to make movies with guns in them, most of the movies where "a good guy with a gun" saves the day.

Then they go home and hate the NRA for saying that private citizens can be good guys with guns

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He was Executive Producer. To make matters worse for him, members of camera and other crew walked off set that morning due to safety issues. There had been other accidental discharges before that day. Baldwin also divided her duties to e armorer but also the number two for set decoration and she was paid less for when she was ordered to be on set design.

Quote:

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He was Executive Producer. To make matters worse for him, members of camera and other crew walked off set that morning due to safety issues. There had been other accidental discharges before that day.

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Wow. Whatever anyone else gets, he deserves 5x