there is no requirement that a pastor sign off on anything.
The reasonable accommodations shouldn't be that difficult if your company has enacted work from home policies over the past 2 years. If you're a bus driver however, there may be no reasonable accommodations available other than frequent testing which could be prohibitively expensive for the employer depending on the job.Pookers said:The law is the law and there's still the reasonable accommodation barrier to pass.texaglurkerguy said:
I think this is a sensible approach, they're not really in a position to dispute your personal convictions.
My concern though would be how much latitude do employers legally have to dispute religious beliefs? If you say "I prayed to God and he said I shouldn't take this vaccine," and were granted reprieve, could you use that justification to get out of other less reasonable things too?
I was simply pointing out that it's unlikely you could abuse the religious exemption to get out of doing work related to the position you are hired to do; probably could had worded my statement better.lb3 said:The reasonable accommodations shouldn't be that difficult if your company has enacted work from home policies over the past 2 years. If you're a bus driver however, there may be no reasonable accommodations available other than frequent testing which could be prohibitively expensive for the employer depending on the job.Pookers said:The law is the law and there's still the reasonable accommodation barrier to pass.texaglurkerguy said:
I think this is a sensible approach, they're not really in a position to dispute your personal convictions.
My concern though would be how much latitude do employers legally have to dispute religious beliefs? If you say "I prayed to God and he said I shouldn't take this vaccine," and were granted reprieve, could you use that justification to get out of other less reasonable things too?
As for the thoughts regarding how to approach the letter, I agree with the OP that less is more. The aborted fetus cell line argument is fraught with contractions which could make one appear to be hypocritical. However "a sincere religious believer doesn't forfeit his religious rights merely because he is not scrupulous in his observance," Grayson v. Schuler, 666 F.3d 450, 454-55 (7th Cir. 2012). But inconsistencies are relevant in proving the sincerity of religious beliefs so there are lots of land mines there.
For those whose objections are a bit more based in convictions of government's overreach, I would consider applying the body is a temple scriptures (1 Corinthians 3:1617) with " Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." (Mark 12:17) to claim that the body is god's domain and not the domain of the government.
What exactly is an artificially aborted fetus?B-1 83 said:
Do all fetal cell lines come from artificially aborted fetuses?
As someone else said, the "religious exemption" is ripe for abuse
I agree. there are good reasons for religious exemptions, but there is the danger of misuse. This has happened with other accommodations, such as service animals and disabilities.B-1 83 said:
Do all fetal cell lines come from artificially aborted fetuses?
As someone else said, the "religious exemption" is ripe for abuse
So you're asking if there's cell lines derived from stillbirths or something? Not sure, but if I had to guess probably. The lines usually used are HEK, MRC5, etc..B-1 83 said:
Not all abortions happen in abortion clinics. Women do lose babies all the time.
BMX Bandit said:
there is no requirement that a pastor sign off on anything.
It is almost certainly what it would look like. Same principles. Its one reason to resist replacement of cash and excessive over-automation. I would have ordered the power grid to restore manual control options. Also some of overrides for the military on various systems. If you have seen the new Battlestar, that would give a good idea why.BuddysBud said:
Rev 13:16 seems like a possible appropriate religious exception in this case.
If you don't get the shot, you cannot have a job, thereby preventing you from buying and selling. Where will it end? You need a vaccine to work, to eat at a restaurant, to shop in the store, to attend a concert, to get on a plane, . . . ?
The vaccine might not be the mark of the beast, but it's getting closer the mark's purpose every day.
This document lists all the fetus cell lines used in each vaccine: https://lozierinstitute.org/update-covid-19-vaccine-candidates-and-abortion-derived-cell-lines/B-1 83 said:
Do all fetal cell lines come from artificially aborted fetuses?
As someone else said, the "religious exemption" is ripe for abuse
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
Don't like the idea of having a pastor sign off on somebody's religious conviction, but thats where we are at.
Religious exemption should be a personal choice. No further action required.
The fact that there is some kind of inquisition concerns me. We dont want to go down that road.
Pookers said:
I think the following is less disputable by corporations. They can use the fetal cell line stuff against you by asking if you boycott all products with cell lines in them.
I will probably use the following when the time comes but would like to hear what others think of it. Of course you will want to pray about it so its not a lie.
"I have prayed to God about whether or not I should receive any COVID vaccine and the answer I have received is no. Forcing me to receive said vaccine will be forcing me to violate what I believe God's will is for me and is therefor against my religious views."
Something like the above (if you actually pray about it and receive a no) would be difficult for an employer to dispute as it's a sincerely held belief and is personal between the individual and God. I've not heard of anybody using this yet but it seems a stronger argument than the aborted fetal cell line stuff.
On what grounds? And which apostate church organization do you work for?flashplayer said:Pookers said:
I think the following is less disputable by corporations. They can use the fetal cell line stuff against you by asking if you boycott all products with cell lines in them.
I will probably use the following when the time comes but would like to hear what others think of it. Of course you will want to pray about it so its not a lie.
"I have prayed to God about whether or not I should receive any COVID vaccine and the answer I have received is no. Forcing me to receive said vaccine will be forcing me to violate what I believe God's will is for me and is therefor against my religious views."
Something like the above (if you actually pray about it and receive a no) would be difficult for an employer to dispute as it's a sincerely held belief and is personal between the individual and God. I've not heard of anybody using this yet but it seems a stronger argument than the aborted fetal cell line stuff.
I tried using this exact reasoning and my employer, a religious organization, denied the exemption.
Pookers said:On what grounds? And which apostate church organization do you work for?flashplayer said:Pookers said:
I think the following is less disputable by corporations. They can use the fetal cell line stuff against you by asking if you boycott all products with cell lines in them.
I will probably use the following when the time comes but would like to hear what others think of it. Of course you will want to pray about it so its not a lie.
"I have prayed to God about whether or not I should receive any COVID vaccine and the answer I have received is no. Forcing me to receive said vaccine will be forcing me to violate what I believe God's will is for me and is therefor against my religious views."
Something like the above (if you actually pray about it and receive a no) would be difficult for an employer to dispute as it's a sincerely held belief and is personal between the individual and God. I've not heard of anybody using this yet but it seems a stronger argument than the aborted fetal cell line stuff.
I tried using this exact reasoning and my employer, a religious organization, denied the exemption.
I'd take that to court.flashplayer said:Pookers said:On what grounds? And which apostate church organization do you work for?flashplayer said:Pookers said:
I think the following is less disputable by corporations. They can use the fetal cell line stuff against you by asking if you boycott all products with cell lines in them.
I will probably use the following when the time comes but would like to hear what others think of it. Of course you will want to pray about it so its not a lie.
"I have prayed to God about whether or not I should receive any COVID vaccine and the answer I have received is no. Forcing me to receive said vaccine will be forcing me to violate what I believe God's will is for me and is therefor against my religious views."
Something like the above (if you actually pray about it and receive a no) would be difficult for an employer to dispute as it's a sincerely held belief and is personal between the individual and God. I've not heard of anybody using this yet but it seems a stronger argument than the aborted fetal cell line stuff.
I tried using this exact reasoning and my employer, a religious organization, denied the exemption.
Ascension is my master and they did not give grounds to any employees for denial of their exemptions
RingOfive said:
My wife will be let go from her job soon if she doesn't get vaccinated. She's 100% remote, so - yeah - it makes total sense.
We had planned on using a religious exemption letter similar to the one posted earlier in this thread, but they don't want a letter. Instead, she has to complete a 3-page questionnaire about her religious beliefs and why/how they prevent her from getting the vaccine.
This is insanity. How is this not religious discrimination? How have we gotten to the point in this country where you're required to divulge two of the most private aspects of your life (medical history and/or faith) to keep your job?
#FJB
How the **** are any of these questions legal as it relates to a religious exemption?RingOfive said:
Perhaps BMX can provide better guidance but I would simply reply with the following:RingOfive said:
Exactly.