Religious Exemption for Vaccine Letter

7,284 Views | 72 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by Gordon McKernan
BMX Bandit
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there is no requirement that a pastor sign off on anything.
Fireman
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AG
NM - see the link was already posted.
BuddysBud
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Rev 13:16 seems like a possible appropriate religious exception in this case.

If you don't get the shot, you cannot have a job, thereby preventing you from buying and selling. Where will it end? You need a vaccine to work, to eat at a restaurant, to shop in the store, to attend a concert, to get on a plane, . . . ?

The vaccine might not be the mark of the beast, but it's getting closer the mark's purpose every day.
lb3
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Pookers said:

texaglurkerguy said:

I think this is a sensible approach, they're not really in a position to dispute your personal convictions.

My concern though would be how much latitude do employers legally have to dispute religious beliefs? If you say "I prayed to God and he said I shouldn't take this vaccine," and were granted reprieve, could you use that justification to get out of other less reasonable things too?
The law is the law and there's still the reasonable accommodation barrier to pass.
The reasonable accommodations shouldn't be that difficult if your company has enacted work from home policies over the past 2 years. If you're a bus driver however, there may be no reasonable accommodations available other than frequent testing which could be prohibitively expensive for the employer depending on the job.

As for the thoughts regarding how to approach the letter, I agree with the OP that less is more. The aborted fetus cell line argument is fraught with contractions which could make one appear to be hypocritical. However "a sincere religious believer doesn't forfeit his religious rights merely because he is not scrupulous in his observance," Grayson v. Schuler, 666 F.3d 450, 454-55 (7th Cir. 2012). But inconsistencies are relevant in proving the sincerity of religious beliefs so there are lots of land mines there.

For those whose objections are a bit more based in convictions of government's overreach, I would consider applying the body is a temple scriptures (1 Corinthians 3:1617) with " Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." (Mark 12:17) to claim that the body is god's domain and not the domain of the government.


Pookers
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lb3 said:

Pookers said:

texaglurkerguy said:

I think this is a sensible approach, they're not really in a position to dispute your personal convictions.

My concern though would be how much latitude do employers legally have to dispute religious beliefs? If you say "I prayed to God and he said I shouldn't take this vaccine," and were granted reprieve, could you use that justification to get out of other less reasonable things too?
The law is the law and there's still the reasonable accommodation barrier to pass.
The reasonable accommodations shouldn't be that difficult if your company has enacted work from home policies over the past 2 years. If you're a bus driver however, there may be no reasonable accommodations available other than frequent testing which could be prohibitively expensive for the employer depending on the job.

As for the thoughts regarding how to approach the letter, I agree with the OP that less is more. The aborted fetus cell line argument is fraught with contractions which could make one appear to be hypocritical. However "a sincere religious believer doesn't forfeit his religious rights merely because he is not scrupulous in his observance," Grayson v. Schuler, 666 F.3d 450, 454-55 (7th Cir. 2012). But inconsistencies are relevant in proving the sincerity of religious beliefs so there are lots of land mines there.

For those whose objections are a bit more based in convictions of government's overreach, I would consider applying the body is a temple scriptures (1 Corinthians 3:1617) with " Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." (Mark 12:17) to claim that the body is god's domain and not the domain of the government.



I was simply pointing out that it's unlikely you could abuse the religious exemption to get out of doing work related to the position you are hired to do; probably could had worded my statement better.
B-1 83
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Do all fetal cell lines come from artificially aborted fetuses?

As someone else said, the "religious exemption" is ripe for abuse
Pookers
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B-1 83 said:

Do all fetal cell lines come from artificially aborted fetuses?

As someone else said, the "religious exemption" is ripe for abuse
What exactly is an artificially aborted fetus?
AggieKatie2
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Its crazy that the government can't review a person's conviction or the strength of that conviction (established SC precedent), but a government pressured employer can/will.
taxpreparer
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B-1 83 said:

Do all fetal cell lines come from artificially aborted fetuses?

As someone else said, the "religious exemption" is ripe for abuse
I agree. there are good reasons for religious exemptions, but there is the danger of misuse. This has happened with other accommodations, such as service animals and disabilities.
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B-1 83
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Not all abortions happen in abortion clinics. Women do lose babies all the time.
Pookers
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B-1 83 said:

Not all abortions happen in abortion clinics. Women do lose babies all the time.
So you're asking if there's cell lines derived from stillbirths or something? Not sure, but if I had to guess probably. The lines usually used are HEK, MRC5, etc..

HeLa cells are used quite a bit and if you dig into the background its a lot more immoral than they let on.
Stat Monitor Repairman
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BMX Bandit said:

there is no requirement that a pastor sign off on anything.


Seems like we are headed that direction.

The fact people feel they need a letter in support of their conviction is concerning.
Secolobo
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...and how about religious organizations you've been faithful to your entire life that have already stated they will not give you an exemption because it's for "the greater good".
Stat Monitor Repairman
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Definitely where the rubber meets the road.
titan
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BuddysBud said:

Rev 13:16 seems like a possible appropriate religious exception in this case.

If you don't get the shot, you cannot have a job, thereby preventing you from buying and selling. Where will it end? You need a vaccine to work, to eat at a restaurant, to shop in the store, to attend a concert, to get on a plane, . . . ?

The vaccine might not be the mark of the beast, but it's getting closer the mark's purpose every day.
It is almost certainly what it would look like. Same principles. Its one reason to resist replacement of cash and excessive over-automation. I would have ordered the power grid to restore manual control options. Also some of overrides for the military on various systems. If you have seen the new Battlestar, that would give a good idea why.
lb3
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B-1 83 said:

Do all fetal cell lines come from artificially aborted fetuses?

As someone else said, the "religious exemption" is ripe for abuse
This document lists all the fetus cell lines used in each vaccine: https://lozierinstitute.org/update-covid-19-vaccine-candidates-and-abortion-derived-cell-lines/

Some cell lines like HEK293 used with Moderna and Pfizer have disputed origins. However since they were harvested in ~1974, it is unlikely the fetus was created in-vitro. It's conceivable the cells could have been harvested from an early miscarriage, but those wishing to harvest cells generally didn't hang out in ER lobbies hoping to find a pregnant women going through a miscarriage to lobby for consent to harvest tissues. They worked with abortion providers to obtain those cells and get consent from the mothers in advance of an abortion so it's almost assuredly from an elective abortion.

To me newer in-vitro cell lines are also problematic because they are creating life for the sole purpose of harvesting the stem cells.
AggiEE
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What justification do you need other than to say you have a sincerely held religious belief?

The witch hunts by HR are ridiculous
Fightin_Aggie
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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

Don't like the idea of having a pastor sign off on somebody's religious conviction, but thats where we are at.

Religious exemption should be a personal choice. No further action required.

The fact that there is some kind of inquisition concerns me. We dont want to go down that road.


This is an issue for me as well. A pastor is our leader, not our religion or God or even God's representative. I may not agree with him on every issue but that doesn't make either one of us right or wrong.

Religion is a personal choice and decision that is between that person and their God.
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Saxsoon
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Ask them if they want to stop taking 30 OTC Medications such as ibuprofen since it used fetal lines in development
flashplayer
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Pookers said:

I think the following is less disputable by corporations. They can use the fetal cell line stuff against you by asking if you boycott all products with cell lines in them.

I will probably use the following when the time comes but would like to hear what others think of it. Of course you will want to pray about it so its not a lie.

"I have prayed to God about whether or not I should receive any COVID vaccine and the answer I have received is no. Forcing me to receive said vaccine will be forcing me to violate what I believe God's will is for me and is therefor against my religious views."

Something like the above (if you actually pray about it and receive a no) would be difficult for an employer to dispute as it's a sincerely held belief and is personal between the individual and God. I've not heard of anybody using this yet but it seems a stronger argument than the aborted fetal cell line stuff.


I tried using this exact reasoning and my employer, a religious organization, denied the exemption.
Pookers
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flashplayer said:

Pookers said:

I think the following is less disputable by corporations. They can use the fetal cell line stuff against you by asking if you boycott all products with cell lines in them.

I will probably use the following when the time comes but would like to hear what others think of it. Of course you will want to pray about it so its not a lie.

"I have prayed to God about whether or not I should receive any COVID vaccine and the answer I have received is no. Forcing me to receive said vaccine will be forcing me to violate what I believe God's will is for me and is therefor against my religious views."

Something like the above (if you actually pray about it and receive a no) would be difficult for an employer to dispute as it's a sincerely held belief and is personal between the individual and God. I've not heard of anybody using this yet but it seems a stronger argument than the aborted fetal cell line stuff.


I tried using this exact reasoning and my employer, a religious organization, denied the exemption.
On what grounds? And which apostate church organization do you work for?
flashplayer
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Pookers said:

flashplayer said:

Pookers said:

I think the following is less disputable by corporations. They can use the fetal cell line stuff against you by asking if you boycott all products with cell lines in them.

I will probably use the following when the time comes but would like to hear what others think of it. Of course you will want to pray about it so its not a lie.

"I have prayed to God about whether or not I should receive any COVID vaccine and the answer I have received is no. Forcing me to receive said vaccine will be forcing me to violate what I believe God's will is for me and is therefor against my religious views."

Something like the above (if you actually pray about it and receive a no) would be difficult for an employer to dispute as it's a sincerely held belief and is personal between the individual and God. I've not heard of anybody using this yet but it seems a stronger argument than the aborted fetal cell line stuff.


I tried using this exact reasoning and my employer, a religious organization, denied the exemption.
On what grounds? And which apostate church organization do you work for?


Ascension is my master and they did not give grounds to any employees for denial of their exemptions
Pookers
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flashplayer said:

Pookers said:

flashplayer said:

Pookers said:

I think the following is less disputable by corporations. They can use the fetal cell line stuff against you by asking if you boycott all products with cell lines in them.

I will probably use the following when the time comes but would like to hear what others think of it. Of course you will want to pray about it so its not a lie.

"I have prayed to God about whether or not I should receive any COVID vaccine and the answer I have received is no. Forcing me to receive said vaccine will be forcing me to violate what I believe God's will is for me and is therefor against my religious views."

Something like the above (if you actually pray about it and receive a no) would be difficult for an employer to dispute as it's a sincerely held belief and is personal between the individual and God. I've not heard of anybody using this yet but it seems a stronger argument than the aborted fetal cell line stuff.


I tried using this exact reasoning and my employer, a religious organization, denied the exemption.
On what grounds? And which apostate church organization do you work for?


Ascension is my master and they did not give grounds to any employees for denial of their exemptions
I'd take that to court.
RingOfive
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My wife will be let go from her job soon if she doesn't get vaccinated. She's 100% remote, so - yeah - it makes total sense.

We had planned on using a religious exemption letter similar to the one posted earlier in this thread, but they don't want a letter. Instead, she has to complete a 3-page questionnaire about her religious beliefs and why/how they prevent her from getting the vaccine.

This is insanity. How is this not religious discrimination? How have we gotten to the point in this country where you're required to divulge two of the most private aspects of your life (medical history and/or faith) to keep your job?

#FJB
01agtx
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RingOfive said:

My wife will be let go from her job soon if she doesn't get vaccinated. She's 100% remote, so - yeah - it makes total sense.

We had planned on using a religious exemption letter similar to the one posted earlier in this thread, but they don't want a letter. Instead, she has to complete a 3-page questionnaire about her religious beliefs and why/how they prevent her from getting the vaccine.

This is insanity. How is this not religious discrimination? How have we gotten to the point in this country where you're required to divulge two of the most private aspects of your life (medical history and/or faith) to keep your job?

#FJB


Reach out to the Liberty Counsel. They may be able to help you with this.
DannyDuberstein
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The fact some of these companies are asking for documentation from pastors is absolutely appalling.

I have recently seen an exemption form from a fortune 50 company that requires pastor signature and says that in some cases they will need to obtain additional information, including discussing the nature of your religious beliefs and accommodation with your religion's spiritual leader
BMX Bandit
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Post the questions. I and others happy to help
RingOfive
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Pookers
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RingOfive said:






How the **** are any of these questions legal as it relates to a religious exemption?
RingOfive
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Exactly.
Pookers
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RingOfive said:

Exactly.
Perhaps BMX can provide better guidance but I would simply reply with the following:

I would quote/cite the Federal Civil Rights Act and relevant state law that outlines religious exemptions.

I would then pray about and then respond with something similar to "I prayed to God asking if I should take the COVID vaccine. I believe the answer I received from Him is no. Forcing me to take the covid vaccine would be forcing me to violate what I believe to be God's will and would require me to violate my religious beliefs."

Editing- Ask BMX or another lawyer how to respond to the other questions. I'd be inclined to provide as little info as possible so they can't find a way to deny your exemption.
TChaney
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TRADUCTOR
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BAKE THE CAKE, PAY FOR THE ABORTION, EAT THE VACCINE.

The godless lie, there is zero religious exemptions reasonable to the godless.
BMX Bandit
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Posting now so I don't forget to respond in the morning.
Kidwrangler
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What about simple ethics? I'm not Catholic, but this excerpt from an article on the 2015 Wal-vax2 cell line, for which docs used special methods to slow the death of the child in order to harvest fresh tissue, defines the bigger ethical picture for many. It is the entire practice that is abhorrant to me, not just the 2 deaths associated with the C-19 vaccines. And this seems like a critical time to call for transparency from all drug developers. If any product has used fetal cell lines, a person shouldn't have to dig to find that out.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBdSvFKXIAEDRph?format=jpg&name=large


Here is a reasoned discussion of the ethics & alternatives.
http://ethicalresearch.net/positions/the-ethics-of-the-walvax-2-cell-strain/
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