By jove, I think........

AgBQ-00 said:

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We pull all of our stuff home. All of the manufacturing needed to sustain ourselves, all of our military, everything. Let everyone else deal with their own defense and let them rot.

Included in this is all foreign aid, public and private is cut off. All food shipments are kept here in the US everything.

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If we could manufacture everything here we would do so already. Socialism at home is making it too expensive to manufacture at home.

And if we cut off our exports, than foreign nations would cut off our imports too. We import a LOT more than we export (thus the record trade deficits). We would be SCREWED. We would be left trying to consume all of the money we have printed rather than goods we used to buy with it.

We have to reverse socialism at home to have a prayer.

Too many idiots. Refer to the Copenhagen thread and those who think Biden is not responsible for inflation in the US right now, despite paying people to sit on their azz, paying landlords to let them live free, buying treasury securities from the bank ie printing money, and spending borrowed money at a rate never seen before.

Socialism exists because of those idiots. Those idiots exist because Darwinism was defeated by cheap energy and technology.

Four years too late, my friend. Not gonna happen with these goons in D.C.

Do you mean out of DC and blue states too? That is where most of the socialism, even the world socialism, is being exported from. That's what France was complaining about ---the American Media and Campuses are enemies of Liberty and Western Civ.

1872walker said:

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I'm more worried about defeating Socialism domestically.

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True and if you let things get bad theoretically people would see and come back. But it'll likely be too late as the government would be too empowered.

I actually suggest conservative/capitalists jump on the public school system to reinforce history/economics lessons.

Hadn't thought of it like that, but would support.

It was actually light satire to point out to you the futility of your plan. "Overseas" is not the problem.

Part of it in an ideal world would be to stem the tide here at home. With moving manufacturing back and actually having jobs that aren't gig work or customer service/ customer facing jobs would pull a lot of people out of their infatuation with UBI etc. But in the real world we live in, yes I am afraid it will take a complete meltdown and reset to ever have a hope us being able to start over.

That is exactly what we used to do in this country until business owners decided they could make more money importing 3rd worlders to suppress wages and outsource manufacturing to the lowest bidder.

We should have a completely isolated free market.

Who's "we"? You do know the biden gaggle controls all the spending and troops, right?

aTmAg said:

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AgBQ-00 said:

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We pull all of our stuff home. All of the manufacturing needed to sustain ourselves, all of our military, everything. Let everyone else deal with their own defense and let them rot.

Included in this is all foreign aid, public and private is cut off. All food shipments are kept here in the US everything.

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If we could manufacture everything here we would do so already. Socialism at home is making it too expensive to manufacture at home.

And if we cut off our exports, than foreign nations would cut off our imports too. We import a LOT more than we export (thus the record trade deficits). We would be SCREWED. We would be left trying to consume all of the money we have printed rather than goods we used to buy with it.

We have to reverse socialism at home to have a prayer.

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We can manufacture everything here, and pretty much have at one point or another.

What we can't do is compete with slave labor and government subsidized manufacturing.

China helps obtain contracts, subsidizes the production until they have the monopoly, and then pull back. It's not fair. But it's ruthless and has been working for a few decades now.

There are parts I'd pay more for, if they were still made in the US, but we don't even have tooling here anymore. It's just not sustainable most the time, since companies here are competing with one hand tied behind their backs.

It hurt, but this was what Trump's tariffs were combatting, and it was working. .

Still like the idea of a Cuban exchange program. That would cure errybody!

&f=1&nofb=1

Being an Alpha Dog while running in Alpha Packs.

You are misdiagnosing the problem. First of all, what are you calling "slave labor"? China is not rounding people up and forcing them at gun point to work in factories. If you are referring to their "sweat shops" then that is not slave labor. "Sweat shop" is a propaganda term, anyway. Don't fall for that. Americans used to make that sort of money too. Yet back then we had the highest standard of living in the world. Today we make far more than we used to IN DOLLARS, but LESS than we used to in gold. That is because we have been printing the crap out of money, it's not because we are really wealthier. We have among the highest "salaries" in the world. Yet our savings rate has been in the single digits. Chinese makes a fraction of our salaries, yet their savings rate is ~50%. Our salaries are not too low, our expenses are way too high. THAT is the problem. Because of that, it costs WAY too much to manufacture stuff here.

And their subsidies do not explain it either. Most of their subsidies are in areas where they are behind, like oil, auto manufacturing, steel, etc. We aren't buying most of that stuff. And our subsidies DWARF theirs by orders of magnitude during covid. Yet we are worse off, not better off. Subsidies aren't an advantage, they are a disadvantage. Both we and China are screwing up there.


You are right that American companies have one hand tied behind their back, but the lack of subsidies or tariffs is not acting as the rope. Our monstrous government is. Their welfare, taxes, and regulations push the cost of everything WAY up here. Therefore we require exorbitant salaries to live, and that makes us noncompetitive. Tariffs were NOT working. Their unseen costs always surpass seen benefits. We need to fix the problem by slashing government not by adding more.

I'll reply when not on a mobile...but this is my life, dealing with this stuff. Definitely not 'misdiagnosing' the issue.

They have a monstrous give as well. But a very different govt.

AgGrad99 said:

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I'll reply when not on a mobile...but this is my life, dealing with this stuff. Definitely not 'misdiagnosing' the issue.

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Sorry, but you are. For example, you are fundamentally wrong on tariffs. You should wonder, "if I'm so wrong on that, what else might I be wrong on?"

gbaby23 said:

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That is exactly what we used to do in this country until business owners decided they could make more money importing 3rd worlders to suppress wages and outsource manufacturing to the lowest bidder.

We should have a completely isolated free market.

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Wouldn't mind a national party that actually banned that, and exporting of factories of critical goods (unless simply a copy of a plant still here--- but none of this "is only overseas" crap)

gbaby23 said:

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That is exactly what we used to do in this country until business owners decided they could make more money importing 3rd worlders to suppress wages and outsource manufacturing to the lowest bidder.

We should have a completely isolated free market.

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Our wages are among the highest in the world. Yet we are living paycheck to paycheck. We do not have a wage suppression problem. We have an expense explosion problem. Crap costs way too much here. Businesses didn't just "suddenly decide they could make more money importing 3rd worlders" they had to choose between that or going out of business since Americans cost WAY too damn much.

We need to lower our costs, not make our wages even higher.

titan said:

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gbaby23 said:

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That is exactly what we used to do in this country until business owners decided they could make more money importing 3rd worlders to suppress wages and outsource manufacturing to the lowest bidder.

We should have a completely isolated free market.

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Wouldn't mind a national party that actually banned that, and exporting of factories of critical goods (unless simply a copy of a plant still here--- but none of this "is only overseas" crap)

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This would cause us an economic collapse. We would be forced to do without those critical goods since it is still non-viable to produce that stuff here.

The answer is to return to the policies that made it viable to produce here again. Not just viable, but make us thrive like we used to. In short, reverse liberal policies that makes everything 100X more expensive to produce here than they should.

AgBQ-00 said:

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We pull all of our stuff home. All of the manufacturing needed to sustain ourselves, all of our military, everything. Let everyone else deal with their own defense and let them rot.

Included in this is all foreign aid, public and private is cut off. All food shipments are kept here in the US everything.

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The problem with this is that it will create instability all over the planet with regional wars breaking out which will eventually suck us in. Russia will hit Western Europe and China the Orient.

aTmAg said:

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titan said:

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gbaby23 said:

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That is exactly what we used to do in this country until business owners decided they could make more money importing 3rd worlders to suppress wages and outsource manufacturing to the lowest bidder.

We should have a completely isolated free market.

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Wouldn't mind a national party that actually banned that, and exporting of factories of critical goods (unless simply a copy of a plant still here--- but none of this "is only overseas" crap)

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This would cause us an economic collapse. We would simply have to start doing without critical goods since it is still non-viable to produce that stuff here.

The answer is to return to the policies that made it viable here again. Not just viable, but make us thrive like we used to. In short, reverse liberal policies that makes everything 100X more expensive to produce here than they should.

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Not following exactly. How is letting importation of outsiders suppress wages useful?

titan said:

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aTmAg said:

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titan said:

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gbaby23 said:

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That is exactly what we used to do in this country until business owners decided they could make more money importing 3rd worlders to suppress wages and outsource manufacturing to the lowest bidder.

We should have a completely isolated free market.

---

Wouldn't mind a national party that actually banned that, and exporting of factories of critical goods (unless simply a copy of a plant still here--- but none of this "is only overseas" crap)

---

This would cause us an economic collapse. We would simply have to start doing without critical goods since it is still non-viable to produce that stuff here.

The answer is to return to the policies that made it viable here again. Not just viable, but make us thrive like we used to. In short, reverse liberal policies that makes everything 100X more expensive to produce here than they should.

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Not following exactly. How is letting importation of outsiders suppress wages useful?

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The problem is that Americans cost so damn much to employ. That's why businesses are forced to import cheap outsiders. The answer is not to waste our resources trying to keep businesses from hiring outsiders (and put them out of business), but to make Americans as inexpensive as those outsiders. And by "inexpensive" I don't mean living like we are poor. I'm talking about make rent, travel, food, etc. cost 1/3rd of what they currently do (or less). I would HAPPILY accept half of my current salary if my expenses were 1/3rd of their current level. Decades of stupid government policy is making those things so expensive. We need to get rid of those policies. Make America producers again.

Easy 8 said:

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I like this one:

Why not just kill all the socialists?

aTmAg said:

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AgGrad99 said:

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I'll reply when not on a mobile...but this is my life, dealing with this stuff. Definitely not 'misdiagnosing' the issue.

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Sorry, but you are. For example, you are fundamentally wrong on tariffs. You should wonder, "if I'm so wrong on that, what else might I be wrong on?"

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I can see no amount of explanation would matter.

AgGrad99 said:

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aTmAg said:

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AgGrad99 said:

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I'll reply when not on a mobile...but this is my life, dealing with this stuff. Definitely not 'misdiagnosing' the issue.

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Sorry, but you are. For example, you are fundamentally wrong on tariffs. You should wonder, "if I'm so wrong on that, what else might I be wrong on?"

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I can see no amount of explanation would matter.

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Are you saying that you will not understand fundamental economics no matter how much it is explained to you?

So childish.

AgGrad99 said:

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So childish.

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You got to admit, you walked right into that one.

But seriously tariffs are about as settled a science as there is in economics. It's one of the few things that Austrians, Chicagoans, and Keynesian's all agree on. Keynesians typically can't find their own ass with both hands, but even THEY understand the folly of tariffs. That's how obvious it is.