Can we have temp bans issued for all of the F84 posters that are posting here?
"take it back to your forum"

Ok that was a joke, seriously we are much more accepting here.


Now on to an issue. If I am blatantly looking at this wrong please explain why what I am seeing is false. If the word debunked is used in refuting this I will assume you are a moron as everyone else should.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1005517/Technical_Briefing_19.pdf

The UK numbers show higher deaths among fully vaccinated and those infected with the Delta variant.

It is my understanding the UK went from most vulnerable down (as we said we would do as well)

So we assume the majority of these deaths (much like those during the initial Alpha run) were from people with multiple other health issues.


The upside to the vaccine appears to be that generally healthy people will have lesser symptoms from the virus.

The trade off is they may not even know they are sick and spreading the virus. I have also seen they carry a significantly higher viral load.

So looking at this logically

The vaccines have now created what some were worried about last year. "asymptomatic spread of the virus"
So almost half of the population are now all super spreaders of the virus and many of them have little to no symptoms.

I am far from an expert here but I would like some input of if/how I am wrong here.

From Nate Silver, fwiw

Here, finally, is the Provincetown study, which includes several major caveats, most of which are almost completely missing from the hyperbolic news coverage around this.https://t.co/2psyPdVob6 pic.twitter.com/VngcGG8HrP

— Nate Silver (@NateSilver538) July 30, 2021

johnnyblaze36 said:

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TxTarpon said:

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Jack Riccardi on KTSA is talking about this now.
He says this was all gay dudes during a party weekend.

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I don't even know where to go with this and don't want to get banned.

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Getting the stick in the slick can make u sick is a fair assessment.

PA24 said:

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johnnyblaze36 said:

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TxTarpon said:

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Jack Riccardi on KTSA is talking about this now.
He says this was all gay dudes during a party weekend.

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I don't even know where to go with this and don't want to get banned.

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Getting the stick in the slick can make u sick is a fair assessment.

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TChaney said:

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The UK numbers show higher deaths among fully vaccinated and those infected with the Delta variant.

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At some point, there are enough people vaccinated that you will mathematically have more people dying and spreading it that are vaxxed vs those that are not. In addition, the overall numbers now should be lower than when we had no vaccinations whatsoever and their data shows that to be the case last I looked.

That's been the primary point made against the "vaccination is worthless against delta" crowd. I'm blanking on the UKs vaxxed population. Did this paper cover that?

FriscoKid said:

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Rapier108 said:

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This is the incident they're using to push masks and lock downs.

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That won't solve anything.

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It will solve the democrat's next election

YouBet said:

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TChaney said:

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The UK numbers show higher deaths among fully vaccinated and those infected with the Delta variant.

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At some point, there are enough people vaccinated that you will mathematically have more people dying and spreading it that are vaxxed vs those that are not. In addition, the overall numbers now should be lower than when we had no vaccinations whatsoever and their data shows that to be the case last I looked.

That's been the primary point made against the "vaccination is worthless against delta" crowd. I'm blanking on the UKs vaxxed population. Did this paper cover that?

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That CDC paper covers this point.

UK vaccine rate according to the BBC

Quote:

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So far, more than 46 million people have had a first vaccine dose - nearly 90% of the adult population - and more than 37 million - over 70% of adults - have had both doses.

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YouBet said:

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TChaney said:

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The UK numbers show higher deaths among fully vaccinated and those infected with the Delta variant.

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At some point, there are enough people vaccinated that you will mathematically have more people dying and spreading it that are vaxxed vs those that are not. In addition, the overall numbers now should be lower than when we had no vaccinations whatsoever and their data shows that to be the case last I looked.

That's been the primary point made against the "vaccination is worthless against delta" crowd. I'm blanking on the UKs vaxxed population. Did this paper cover that?

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This particular paper did not - I think it's more of an overall status report on the variants and contact tracing.

Overall vaccination status varies by region but single dose ranges from 85-90%
Full vaccination rates are at 71-80%

One other factor I though about after posting.
I don't know culturally if the UK has a high percentage of multi generation households.
That could make a huge difference in transmission rates to those that are older and infirmed in a household.

My main concern is, those that are actually at risk may have a false sense of security being fully vaccinated.
It appears (only from the UK data so far - I think we are behind the curve on this) the vaccine is not effective for that small subset.

I am far from a Branch Covidian, but I do understand there is a portion of the population that is truly at risk from this and other illnesses like the flu etc. The "news" being released never seems to give a decent overall assessment and seems to rely on partisan talking points and propaganda.


EDIT
So we are looking at approximately a 70/30 ratio of vax to unvax

In this report (a small sample size)

Deaths
165 Unvaccinated
224 Fully Vaccinated
71 - unknown or 1 dose vaccination.

The per capita ratio is much higher in the unvaccinated group.
~90% of deaths were over 50 yoa.
(they did not break down the numbers further but I would bet they graduate up much like we have seen all along as the age gets higher)

My point here is I think the media is way overplaying the unvaccinated card while ignoring the original subset that has been vulnerable all along.

PA24 said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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johnnyblaze36 said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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FriscoKid said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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BigRobSA said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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BigRobSA said:

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Sounds like the only true "immunity" is from actually having the weakass virus infect you.

The vaccines seem to have issues, big and small, whereas natural immunity conveys a stronger immunity as would be expected.

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This is completely false.

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no, it's not.

The immunity from the vaccines are cubic zirconia to natural immunity's diamonds.

We keep hearing about vaxxed populations getting infected, when the original claims were it was 95% protective. Now, the mantra is it's not truly protective, but will diminish infection symptoms (for the few that actually have them). That right there is suspect...especially without vast populations of the naturally immune getting reinfected.

I'd imagine vaxxed previously infecteds are like ****ing Wolverine for this weak *****

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It's false because you don't seem to know the difference between covid and infection with the virus. Or that the efficacy studies were based on preventing covid, not infection.

I agree that prior immunity means you don't need the vaccine. And it may very well be stronger than the vaccine. But to claim the vaccine doesn't work against covid when you confuse it with infection is just pure ignorance.

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I don't get your point that you have continued to try and make over the past week on this subject.

People that got the vaccine have gotten sick and can spread it to others. Stop acting like the vaccine is some kind of savior. Maybe it lessens the symptoms. I hope it does, but this is not how it was sold.

And yes, this is moving the goalposts. It moved from immunity to "not as sick".

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Except if you actually read the efficacy studies thats exactly how it was sold

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This is how it was sold to me just last week by the "President" of the United States. Start at the two minute mark and let us know your thoughts:

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Biden is also a moron that doesn't understand the difference between covid or sars-cov-2.

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Your President clearly stated it.

Tell you what, you can take your condescending COVID vs sars comments and stick it where the sun don't shine

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It's not condescending if it's undeniably true. Do you think there's a difference between AIDS and HIV?

BR....I usually agree with what you say....however i went in for my annual physical this week with my family Aggie Doctor. He is in a group of family physicians and they have literally treated 1,000's of covid cases since the pandemic started. He said that almost 70% or more of their patients that had covid have some type of health issues now.....neurological problems, parkinsons type of problems, permanent loss of taste and smell, hearing issues, sight issues, gastric issues, permanent hair loss, heart issues, lung issues, skin rashes and sun exposure issues, extreme fatigue issues, etc.....he says these could be 20 year olds to 80 year olds and they could be patients that had very mild symptoms to severe hospitalized symptoms of covid.....and they did not have these issues till after having covid.
He made a comment that he is very concerned about the long term lingering effects it may have on patients throughout their lives. This is an old school doctor and has been taking care of our family for years and I tend to have trust in him......and this concerned me. What say you?

Salute The Marines said:

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samurai_texan said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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BigRobSA said:

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Sounds like the only true "immunity" is from actually having the weakass virus infect you.

The vaccines seem to have issues, big and small, whereas natural immunity conveys a stronger immunity as would be expected.

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This is completely false.

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Wrong, UK and Israel show the vaccines are worse against Delta, and this:

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762


Nearly 40% of new COVID patients were vaccinated - compared to just 1% who had been infected previously.

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Weird how you never post about American numbers showing that it's basically only the unvaccinated who are still dying here.

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Here you are, some US numbers

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/159-dead-593-hospitalized-in-illinois-breakthrough-covid-cases/2560611/

Quote:

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More than 150 people have died and nearly 600 have been hospitalized in Illinois due to COVID-19 in "breakthrough" cases after they were fully vaccinated, according to state health officials.

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rab79 said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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samurai_texan said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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BigRobSA said:

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Sounds like the only true "immunity" is from actually having the weakass virus infect you.

The vaccines seem to have issues, big and small, whereas natural immunity conveys a stronger immunity as would be expected.

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This is completely false.

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Wrong, UK and Israel show the vaccines are worse against Delta, and this:

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762


Nearly 40% of new COVID patients were vaccinated - compared to just 1% who had been infected previously.

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Weird how you never post about American numbers showing that it's basically only the unvaccinated who are still dying here.

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Here you are, some US numbers

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/159-dead-593-hospitalized-in-illinois-breakthrough-covid-cases/2560611/

Quote:

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More than 150 people have died and nearly 600 have been hospitalized in Illinois due to COVID-19 in "breakthrough" cases after they were fully vaccinated, according to state health officials.

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I wish they would have added a an age breakdown of the deaths.

Oh and a quote from the article:

"Illinois' top doctor said last week that breakthrough cases of COVID-19 in fully vaccinated residents are a "unicorn" as she again urged those who have not yet gotten vaccinated to do so."

Well there sure as hell are a lot of unicorns roaming around these days.

Rab and others. I thought I would share some information that was told to me this week. I want to say first that I think folks ought to be able able to make decisions on their own as to whether they take the vaccine or not. With that being said here is what I learned this week:

I hunt and fish with a good friend who is 61 and his wife works for Pfizer. She is an Aggie grad and has been in their research and development areas for 37 years. She worked very closely on the Pfizer covid vaccine and knows a hell of a lot about it imho. I had the opportunity to talk with her today as I am setting up a hunting trip for her husband and I. I asked her about the breakthrough cases. Here is what she pointed out that she and her company are asking questions and finding answers and facts about this as we speak:

1.) The vaccines are very temperature sensitive. If they are not handled properly and are allowed to "warm up" in shipping or dispensing it can make the vaccine become non are partially non effective. There seems to be lots of inaccurate or unavailable data that all things are being done right everywhere in handling the vaccines. She said it is hard to track this but they know it is happening.
2.) They are finding that lots of people got one shot but then did not get the second shot and the governments in the US and other countries have done a very poor job in knowing what is accurate and what is not as far as record keeping of that.
3.) Many instances of people getting the first shot but before the second shot they are getting exposed to the virus and have not developed full immunity to it. Again very poor data and records are kept tracking that. As far as the data shows they got their second shot but then became sick anyway.

Bottom line she said there are so many variables that could be effecting the efficacy of the vaccine but that those things are never talked about...rather the narrative is always a vaccinated person got sick and no one is talking about the things above.

I know....she works for Pfizer but I have known them a long time and she has always been a very straight up honest person. I can tell you she was very frustrated by how hard they have worked and all the narratives and political aspects of the whole vaccine thing.

She also said the Msnra vaccines are not really untested new technology as similar vaccines have been used very successfully for the last 12-13 years as prophylactic vaccines for certain cancers and that those vaccines were the basis or building blocks for the covid vaccines.

Anyway thought I would share......maybe its BS....maybe it is not.....but something we can all think about.

rab79 said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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samurai_texan said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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BigRobSA said:

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Sounds like the only true "immunity" is from actually having the weakass virus infect you.

The vaccines seem to have issues, big and small, whereas natural immunity conveys a stronger immunity as would be expected.

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This is completely false.

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Wrong, UK and Israel show the vaccines are worse against Delta, and this:

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762


Nearly 40% of new COVID patients were vaccinated - compared to just 1% who had been infected previously.

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Weird how you never post about American numbers showing that it's basically only the unvaccinated who are still dying here.

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Here you are, some US numbers

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/159-dead-593-hospitalized-in-illinois-breakthrough-covid-cases/2560611/

Quote:

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More than 150 people have died and nearly 600 have been hospitalized in Illinois due to COVID-19 in "breakthrough" cases after they were fully vaccinated, according to state health officials.

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You've given me the denominators now give me the numerators.

Salute The Marines said:

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You've given me the denominators now give me the numerators.

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insert Johnny Cash gif here

Rapier108 said:

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This is the incident they're using to push masks and lock downs.

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They don't need any incidents to impose lockdowns or mask mandates. Democrats accomplished it already when Republicans were in power. They will just create a narrative and continue doing anything they want.

https://www.the-sun.com/lifestyle/3381486/can-masturbating-boost-your-immune-system-fight-covid/

Quote:

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One small but promising study of 11 men - who were awkwardly told to masturbate while researchers took blood tests - suggests so.

Published in 2004, it showed masturbation caused a temporary spike in immune cells, including killer cells that fight viruses.

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munch96 said:

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https://www.the-sun.com/lifestyle/3381486/can-masturbating-boost-your-immune-system-fight-covid/

Quote:

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One small but promising study of 11 men - who were awkwardly told to masturbate while researchers took blood tests - suggests so.

Published in 2004, it showed masturbation caused a temporary spike in immune cells, including killer cells that fight viruses.

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I dont think most people were arguing against vaccines? Nor were the arguments from most conservatives stating that the vaccine(s) do not help.

The arguments are:

1) quit forcing me to do more than I allready do for the government against my will

2) lockdowns and mask mandates do not help.

I think your long winded opinion is based on too much media exposure.

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