Critics say the number one reason the earth is warming is due to heat trapped in the air due to carbon emissions, right? But wouldn't the continuing urbanization of cities be a bigger reason? What causes a bigger delta T? Heat being trapped in the air, or heat being trapped in more and more concrete, and brick and glass buildings?

If I'm off base here, please tell me why.

BigRobSA said:

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Champ Bailey said:

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Critics say the number one reason the earth is warming is due to heat trapped in the air due to carbon emissions, right? But wouldn't the continuing urbanization of cities be a bigger reason? What causes a bigger delta T? Heat being trapped in the air, or heat being trapped in more and more concrete, and brick and glass buildings?

If I'm off base here, please tell me why.

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Water vapor is the worst offender as a greenhouse gas. But, there isn't a "Big Water" to siphon money from like "Big Oil".

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A warmer climate means warmer air. Warmer air can hold more water. More water absorbs more heat, inducing even greater warming and perpetuating a positive feedback loop.

HumpitPuryear said:

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I've never gotten how scientists, who readily admit that the earth's climate has experienced both extreme heat and extreme cold several times when humans were not existent or living in caves, are convinced that any perceived recent trend in any direction is human induced. They've been pitching this ridiculous claim since the 1970s when it was a new ice age that was going to destroy us.

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yes they were going to dust the artic and antartic with carbon black to increase heat adsorption and "melt the ice"

Champ Bailey said:

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Critics say the number one reason the earth is warming is due to heat trapped in the air due to carbon emissions, right? But wouldn't the continuing urbanization of cities be a bigger reason? What causes a bigger delta T? Heat being trapped in the air, or heat being trapped in more and more concrete, and brick and glass buildings?

If I'm off base here, please tell me why.

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Substances do not trap heat or contain heat. All substances have internal energy which is directly related to temperature. Add heat (a form of energy) to a substance and it's internal energy will increase which will raise its temperature. Certain substances take more heat for their temperature to rise. It takes a large amount of heat to raise the temp of water and a relatively small amount of heat to raise the temp of metal. A lot of people call this heat capacity but that term confuses people when thinking about what is actually going on.

One way your argument could hold water is that concrete is replacing soil that could retain moisture which would help to keep the ground temps lower.

So you're saying 2 birds 1 stone for overpopulation and "global warming" if we get rid of the cities?

Jmiller said:

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BigRobSA said:

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Champ Bailey said:

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Critics say the number one reason the earth is warming is due to heat trapped in the air due to carbon emissions, right? But wouldn't the continuing urbanization of cities be a bigger reason? What causes a bigger delta T? Heat being trapped in the air, or heat being trapped in more and more concrete, and brick and glass buildings?

If I'm off base here, please tell me why.

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Water vapor is the worst offender as a greenhouse gas. But, there isn't a "Big Water" to siphon money from like "Big Oil".

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A warmer climate means warmer air. Warmer air can hold more water. More water absorbs more heat, inducing even greater warming and perpetuating a positive feedback loop.

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Sure I understand that, But if you have a giant heat sink from a city being located there, and you keep expanding the total capacity for that heat sink by building the city bigger upwards and outwards, aren't you warming up the air more from that than the carbon emissions? That's what I'm asking.

DavysApprentice said:

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Champ Bailey said:

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Critics say the number one reason the earth is warming is due to heat trapped in the air due to carbon emissions, right? But wouldn't the continuing urbanization of cities be a bigger reason? What causes a bigger delta T? Heat being trapped in the air, or heat being trapped in more and more concrete, and brick and glass buildings?

If I'm off base here, please tell me why.

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Substances do not trap heat or contain heat. All substances have internal energy which is directly related to temperature. Add heat (a form of energy) to a substance and it's internal energy will increase which will raise its temperature. Certain substances take more heat for their temperature to rise. It takes a large amount of heat to raise the temp of water and a relatively small amount of heat to raise the temp of metal. A lot of people call this heat capacity but that term confuses people when thinking about what is actually going on.

One way your argument could hold water is that concrete is replacing soil that could retain moisture which would help to keep the ground temps lower.

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That's exactly what I'm saying. And glass and metal would radiate more heat back into the air than if there was just air there too, right?

Champ Bailey said:

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DavysApprentice said:

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Champ Bailey said:

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Critics say the number one reason the earth is warming is due to heat trapped in the air due to carbon emissions, right? But wouldn't the continuing urbanization of cities be a bigger reason? What causes a bigger delta T? Heat being trapped in the air, or heat being trapped in more and more concrete, and brick and glass buildings?

If I'm off base here, please tell me why.

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Substances do not trap heat or contain heat. All substances have internal energy which is directly related to temperature. Add heat (a form of energy) to a substance and it's internal energy will increase which will raise its temperature. Certain substances take more heat for their temperature to rise. It takes a large amount of heat to raise the temp of water and a relatively small amount of heat to raise the temp of metal. A lot of people call this heat capacity but that term confuses people when thinking about what is actually going on.

One way your argument could hold water is that concrete is replacing soil that could retain moisture which would help to keep the ground temps lower.

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That's exactly what I'm saying. And glass and metal would trap more heat than air too, right?

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No their internal energy rises and lowers with very little heat added.
Metal in the sun cools very quickly when the sun goes down. The metal is only hot to the touch because of the temp difference between your hand and the metal.

Metal transfers heat very readily

Champ Bailey said:

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Critics say the number one reason the earth is warming is due to heat trapped in the air due to carbon emissions, right? But wouldn't the continuing urbanization of cities be a bigger reason? What causes a bigger delta T? Heat being trapped in the air, or heat being trapped in more and more concrete, and brick and glass buildings?

If I'm off base here, please tell me why.

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The number one driver in climate change are solar cycles. The past interglacial periods over the last 500,000 years coincide with long term solar cycles, and we are expected to be warming now regardless of human carbon emissions. If you look at the steady rise in ocean levels over the last 150 years, averaging about 3 mm per year, it coincides with our warming planet. If our planet was warming as fast as the bogus average global temperature data suggested by NOAA and NASA, then we would have seen a notable acceleration in ocean level rise over the last 30 years. Climate change is about dictating policy and creating more government power.

If leftists truly believed it were an existential threat, then they would be advocating for nuclear energy and pulling the plug on globalism. None of the idiotic solutions that are being proposed will keep CO2 from increasing. This is because China and India will continue to rely upon coal, and because we are naturally warming in this interglacial period, so oceans will continue to outgas more CO2.

Jmiller said:

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BigRobSA said:

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Champ Bailey said:

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Critics say the number one reason the earth is warming is due to heat trapped in the air due to carbon emissions, right? But wouldn't the continuing urbanization of cities be a bigger reason? What causes a bigger delta T? Heat being trapped in the air, or heat being trapped in more and more concrete, and brick and glass buildings?

If I'm off base here, please tell me why.

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Water vapor is the worst offender as a greenhouse gas. But, there isn't a "Big Water" to siphon money from like "Big Oil".

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A warmer climate means warmer air. Warmer air can hold more water. More water absorbs more heat, inducing even greater warming and perpetuating a positive feedback loop.

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. Until the next ice age

A warming climate is followed by increasing CO2 emissions. The CO2, much like water vapor, will hit an equilibrium. The climate has been much hotter in the past and has contained much higher CO2 in the past. If the earth were to begin cooling, we will again see a reduction in atmospheric CO2.

The earth isn't warming to any significant level that would do anything to anyone.

Climate control is some of the biggest bull*****

It's called weather, it's been around since the beginning of time and has barely fluctuated in billions of years.

Champ Bailey said:

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Critics say the number one reason the earth is warming is due to heat trapped in the air due to carbon emissions, right? But wouldn't the continuing urbanization of cities be a bigger reason? What causes a bigger delta T? Heat being trapped in the air, or heat being trapped in more and more concrete, and brick and glass buildings?

If I'm off base here, please tell me why.

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It's the difference between adding a 1x1 window to your house and a radiant barrier.

CO2 doesn't retain heat like concrete, it prevents it from radiating out. Essentially it insulates.

Even if it was a retention problem, there's vast differences in volume. The atmosphere is roughly 1 billion cubic miles on volume. No way volume of construction materials from urbanization comes anywhere near that. It's also not like those materials weren't sourced doh the ground anyway. They've always retained heat, they just do it in a more centralized manner now.

Global urbanization also really isn't even all that impactful because from a surface area standpoint it's almost a rounding error. In total it's less than 1%.

Again, there is no man made climate change.

It's naive to think us little humans tip the scale one way or the other on natural systems that have been fluctuating back and forth for millions of years.

aggieland09 said:

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It's naive to think us little humans tip the scale one way or the other on natural systems that have been fluctuating back and forth for millions of years.

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I wouldn't necessarily say that. Climate is chaotic. Slowly, but still chaotic. Even slight perturbations can have appreciable effects. We're not an asteroid, but we're not benign either. We can and do have a impact.

What's naive is thinking that we can fully understand and predict the impact we will have on a large chaotic system like the planet's climate with an appreciable degree of certainty and precision.

One thing I've never gotten is some people think man's actions can solve this "problem".

Jmiller said:

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BigRobSA said:

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Champ Bailey said:

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Critics say the number one reason the earth is warming is due to heat trapped in the air due to carbon emissions, right? But wouldn't the continuing urbanization of cities be a bigger reason? What causes a bigger delta T? Heat being trapped in the air, or heat being trapped in more and more concrete, and brick and glass buildings?

If I'm off base here, please tell me why.

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Water vapor is the worst offender as a greenhouse gas. But, there isn't a "Big Water" to siphon money from like "Big Oil".

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A warmer climate means warmer air. Warmer air can hold more water. More water absorbs more heat, inducing even greater warming and perpetuating a positive feedback loop.

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This is what happens when you don't science

HumpitPuryear said:

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I've never gotten how scientists, who readily admit that the earth's climate has experienced both extreme heat and extreme cold several times when humans were not existent or living in caves, are convinced that any perceived recent trend in any direction is human induced. They've been pitching this ridiculous claim since the 1970s when it was a new ice age that was going to destroy us.

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It's because climate "scientists" aren't actually scientists. They're ****ty, wannabe mathematicians that didn't have good enough GRE scores to get into graduate programs of ACTUAL scientific disciplines. Hell, the life sciences have a bad rep for admitting students weak at math, and they are FAR superior to the dregs that gravitate towards climate science.

The majority of real scientists that speak up loudly about climate change are theoretical physicists, who don't deal with large amounts of quantitative data or disparate data sets, along with the corresponding statistics. I'm sure they simply see a study published by fellow "scientists" and take it purely at face value, because they don't want to actually spend the time analyzing and critiquing the methodology of a different field of study. In other words, they're lazy.

I'm sick of all these idiots masquerading as scientists and giving actual scientists a bad name.

aggieland09 said:

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It's naive arrogant to think us little humans tip the scale one way or the other on natural systems that have been fluctuating back and forth for millions of years.

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NONE of this matters.

Once the sun goes supernova, the earth won't be here.

Nobody will just say it

A_Gang_Ag_06 said:

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Nobody will just say it

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agracer said:

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Jmiller said:

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BigRobSA said:

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Champ Bailey said:

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Critics say the number one reason the earth is warming is due to heat trapped in the air due to carbon emissions, right? But wouldn't the continuing urbanization of cities be a bigger reason? What causes a bigger delta T? Heat being trapped in the air, or heat being trapped in more and more concrete, and brick and glass buildings?

If I'm off base here, please tell me why.

---

Water vapor is the worst offender as a greenhouse gas. But, there isn't a "Big Water" to siphon money from like "Big Oil".

---

A warmer climate means warmer air. Warmer air can hold more water. More water absorbs more heat, inducing even greater warming and perpetuating a positive feedback loop.

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. Until the next ice age

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I can think of no reason to worry about the next ice age until our current age ends. And this one is only something like 2.7 million years old which is rather young for an ice age.

annie88 said:

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The earth isn't warming to any significant level that would do anything to anyone.

Climate control is some of the biggest bull*****

It's called weather, it's been around since the beginning of time and has barely fluctuated in billions of years.

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While it hasn't fluctuated all that much in the last 100 years, it has certainly fluctuated a whole lot in the last billion years.

Wabs said:

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One thing I've never gotten is some people think man's actions can solve this "problem".

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Well, we can go inside and turn the air conditioner on.