And when I say kill, he pretty much allowed it to stay a show bill. This amendment would have outlawed abortions in Texas starting September 1st. As it stands, it will only go into effect with an Amendment to the Constitution or if the Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade. Heck of a Legislature we've got there.

https://texasscorecard.com/state/house-speaker-kills-abortion-abolition-amendment/

I hate abortion but I agree. It's a political stunt with zero upside; it will just cost us a few assistant attorney general and solicitor general office attorneys' time, court costs, and attorney fees for abortion rights groups' attorneys.

We already have the best sort of state law: abortion will be illegal the second the Roe/Casey jurisprudence is overturned and abortion "rights" becomes a state-law issue again.

Dade's a good dude. This was probably the right move, at least from where I'm sitting.

LOYAL AG said:

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Why are the spending time on bills that will be immediately blocked by a federal court? I'd rather they take up and pass something stopping CRT.

Roe v Wade needs to be repealed so that the 57 states can make up their own minds on the issue of abortion. But until it is bills like this amount to grandstanding.

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Agreed. Right now we need to concentrate on fights we can win. Anything outlawing abortion in Texas will just overturned by a federal court. Whether you like it or not, and I don't, abortion is the law of the land.

LOYAL AG said:

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Why are the spending time on bills that will be immediately blocked by a federal court? I'd rather they take up and pass something stopping CRT.

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Insert why not both gif.

Seriously though, the left never hesitates to pass bills that infringe on our rights, and it's obvious the only way to stop murdering babies at this point is to slowly and methodically chip away at it. If you wait for RvW to be overturned it might happen by the time your grandchildren are old and grey.

Sully Dog said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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Why are the spending time on bills that will be immediately blocked by a federal court? I'd rather they take up and pass something stopping CRT.

---

Insert why not both gif.

Seriously though, the left never hesitates to pass bills that infringe on our rights, and it's obvious the only way to stop murdering babies at this point is to slowly and methodically chip away at it. If you wait for RvW to be overturned it might happen by the time your grandchildren are old and grey.

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There's a finite amount of time the leg meets in Texas (something I'm certain we agree is a good thing) and that time is coming to a close. We're not going to see a special session on this issue so, respectfully, why are we here again?

Republicans or Democrats.....same answers.

Jason C. said:

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I hate abortion but I agree. It's a political stunt with zero upside; it will just cost us a few assistant attorney general and solicitor general office attorneys' time, court costs, and attorney fees for abortion rights groups' attorneys.

We already have the best sort of state law: abortion will be illegal the second the Roe/Casey jurisprudence is overturned and abortion "rights" becomes a state-law issue again.

Dade's a good dude. This was probably the right move, at least from where I'm sitting.

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The bill as it stands does nothing. He killed the Amendment to outlaw abortion, so why bother with the legislation at all if it's just for show? I hope you're right, but I haven't seen his good side. The way it's going, he's lost my vote in the next election.

Sully Dog said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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Why are the spending time on bills that will be immediately blocked by a federal court? I'd rather they take up and pass something stopping CRT.

---

Insert why not both gif.

Seriously though, the left never hesitates to pass bills that infringe on our rights, and it's obvious the only way to stop murdering babies at this point is to slowly and methodically chip away at it. If you wait for RvW to be overturned it might happen by the time your grandchildren are old and grey.

---

Forgive the crassness because I really am not trying to discount the issue, but abortion is a sunk cost, a personal decision, and a federal matter legally speaking.

CRT is an insidious, racist cancer that has the potential to directly impact millions of people that very quickly degrades society. It's already happening and it needs to be stopped before it can really take hold. We need to fight this battle right now or everything gets worse. And it can be fought at the state and local level for now. Thus, take advantage of that and stop it in its tracks.

Also, considering the way politics works (horse trading) there is a degree of zero sum game when it comes to policy making. You can't just go after everything and be effective (ie to counter "why not both" thought that I see frequently on here).

YouBet said:

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Sully Dog said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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Why are the spending time on bills that will be immediately blocked by a federal court? I'd rather they take up and pass something stopping CRT.

---

Insert why not both gif.

Seriously though, the left never hesitates to pass bills that infringe on our rights, and it's obvious the only way to stop murdering babies at this point is to slowly and methodically chip away at it. If you wait for RvW to be overturned it might happen by the time your grandchildren are old and grey.

---

Forgive the crassness because I really am not trying to discount the issue, but abortion is a sunk cost, a personal decision, and a federal matter legally speaking.

CRT is an insidious, racist cancer that has the potential to directly impact millions of people that very quickly degrades society. It's already happening and it needs to be stopped before it can really take hold. We need to fight this battle right now or everything gets worse. And it can be fought at the state and local level for now. Thus, take advantage of that and stop it in its tracks.

Also, considering the way politics works (horse trading) there is a degree of zero sum game when it comes to policy making. You can't just go after everything and be effective (ie to counter "why not both" thought that I see frequently on here).

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I disagree that we can't tackle both, but if not, life is more important. Abortion is murder, which trips everything else.

If states don't challenge RvW how will it fall?

aggiecive said:

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If states don't challenge RvW how will it fall?

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Politics by other means

LOYAL AG said:

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Why are the spending time on bills that will be immediately blocked by a federal court? I'd rather they take up and pass something stopping CRT.

Roe v Wade needs to be repealed so that the 57 states can make up their own minds on the issue of abortion. But until it is bills like this amount to grandstanding.

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You don't get to court to have it overturned until you pass a bill that challenges it and creates the case.

16Ag18 said:

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50 years from now, we will look back and say "I can't believe abortion WAS legal back then"

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Millions won't.

milner79 said:

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16Ag18 said:

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50 years from now, we will look back and say "I can't believe abortion WAS legal back then"

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40 Million+ won't.

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Better.

abortion is a non-starter, and nothing more than a way to raise election funds by BOTH parties.

The big secret is more than enough Republicans are OK with abortion that they do not want it to go away.

C@LAg said:

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abortion is a non-starter, and nothing more than a way to raise election funds by BOTH parties.

The big secret is more than enough Republicans are OK with abortion that they do not want it to go away.

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But for abortion laws, Texas would already be a blue state.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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Why are the spending time on bills that will be immediately blocked by a federal court? I'd rather they take up and pass something stopping CRT.

Roe v Wade needs to be repealed so that the 57 states can make up their own minds on the issue of abortion. But until it is bills like this amount to grandstanding.

---

You don't get to court to have it overturned until you pass a bill that challenges it and creates the case.

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Those bills are being passed in other states. How far has that gotten us?

My original assertion stands. Time is a precious commodity for the Texas Legislature and in the last 3+ weeks of this session spending time on a bill that's going to be immediately blocked is a poor decision if it means they don't spend that time on a bill to block CRT which will not be blocked and is crucial to the education of the children the Democrats aren't able to kill. I'm all for Texas taking up the fight against Roe v Wade but let's not pretend passing that was going to matter anytime soon.

LOYAL AG said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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Why are the spending time on bills that will be immediately blocked by a federal court? I'd rather they take up and pass something stopping CRT.

Roe v Wade needs to be repealed so that the 57 states can make up their own minds on the issue of abortion. But until it is bills like this amount to grandstanding.

---

You don't get to court to have it overturned until you pass a bill that challenges it and creates the case.

---

Those bills are being passed in other states. How far has that gotten us?

My original assertion stands. Time is a precious commodity for the Texas Legislature and in the last 3+ weeks of this session spending time on a bill that's going to be immediately blocked is a poor decision if it means they don't spend that time on a bill to block CRT which will not be blocked and is crucial to the education of the children the Democrats aren't able to kill. I'm all for Texas taking up the fight against Roe v Wade but let's not pretend passing that was going to matter anytime soon.

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Better hurry, you have 3 days.

LOYAL AG said:

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Why are the spending time on bills that will be immediately blocked by a federal court? I'd rather they take up and pass something stopping CRT.

Roe v Wade needs to be repealed so that the 57 states can make up their own minds on the issue of abortion. But until it is bills like this amount to grandstanding.

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Republicans need to stop federal funding for abortions. Planned Parenthood receives millions to kill babies and then use taxpayers money for campaign contributions to Democrats.

Oak Tree said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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Why are the spending time on bills that will be immediately blocked by a federal court? I'd rather they take up and pass something stopping CRT.

Roe v Wade needs to be repealed so that the 57 states can make up their own minds on the issue of abortion. But until it is bills like this amount to grandstanding.

---

Republicans need to stop federal funding for abortions. Planned Parenthood receives millions to kill babies and then use taxpayers money for campaign contributions to Democrats.

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OK? Not sure what that has to do with anything I've posted here. It's not going to happen anytime soon. Time spent here in the 2021 Texas Legislature session is time wasted on issues Republicans can win on in the near term.

Want to win on abortion? Beat the Dems at their game. Make this issue about race. Not too long ago I did some math on abortion by race:

White 14.6%
Hispanic 23%
Black 31.4%

Those numbers do not include states like New York that don't report abortion stats by race. Yet we've heard that over half of black pregnancies are aborted in NYC. Want to win on this issue? Show Americans that approximately 1/3 of black babies are killed by Democrats. This country is becoming very sensitive to the plight of black America so if you share that concern and you're pro-abortion you've really got to step back and decide which is important to you.

IMO This issue is going to have to be won in the court of public opinion, not the state legislatures. Make the issue unpalatable to people, make it so that the idea of killing 1/3 of black children is repulsive to the majority of Americans. Then you'll have a chance to see Roe overturned. The rest of this is just fundraising fodder for the two parties.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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Why are the spending time on bills that will be immediately blocked by a federal court? I'd rather they take up and pass something stopping CRT.

Roe v Wade needs to be repealed so that the 57 states can make up their own minds on the issue of abortion. But until it is bills like this amount to grandstanding.

---

You don't get to court to have it overturned until you pass a bill that challenges it and creates the case.

---

There are many other states that have already got laws that will trigger more Roe challenges. If Texas wants to join in a lawsuit that's fine, in the meantime this sounds like a smart move. It essentially is saying if Roe is overturned abortion will be illegal in Texas. Great, move on to the next item because anything else is just virtue signaling. It won't stop a single abortion. It won't carry the force of law. All it will do is distract from the other issues that a State that will likely be over 30 million soon has to deal with.

We only have our Leg meet for a brief time and we have other issues that need attention. The abortion fight isn't going to be won or lost based on passing another abortion bill that is a lock to be struck down. If ending abortion is truly your goal this bill is counterproductive.

I agree that Republicans should concentrate on issues they can pass that would make a difference. They have zero chance to sway public opinion about abortion...Democrats control the media.

aggie93 said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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Why are the spending time on bills that will be immediately blocked by a federal court? I'd rather they take up and pass something stopping CRT.

Roe v Wade needs to be repealed so that the 57 states can make up their own minds on the issue of abortion. But until it is bills like this amount to grandstanding.

---

You don't get to court to have it overturned until you pass a bill that challenges it and creates the case.

---

There are many other states that have already got laws that will trigger more Roe challenges. If Texas wants to join in a lawsuit that's fine, in the meantime this sounds like a smart move. It essentially is saying if Roe is overturned abortion will be illegal in Texas. Great, move on to the next item because anything else is just virtue signaling. It won't stop a single abortion. It won't carry the force of law. All it will do is distract from the other issues that a State that will likely be over 30 million soon has to deal with.

We only have our Leg meet for a brief time and we have other issues that need attention. The abortion fight isn't going to be won or lost based on passing another abortion bill that is a lock to be struck down. If ending abortion is truly your goal this bill is counterproductive.

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Completely disagree. Passing a Bill that only goes into effect if the Supreme Court overturns a 50 year precedent is purely for show. Pass a real bill and let the Feds try to kill more Texas babies.

SociallyConditionedAg said:

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aggie93 said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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Why are the spending time on bills that will be immediately blocked by a federal court? I'd rather they take up and pass something stopping CRT.

Roe v Wade needs to be repealed so that the 57 states can make up their own minds on the issue of abortion. But until it is bills like this amount to grandstanding.

---

You don't get to court to have it overturned until you pass a bill that challenges it and creates the case.

---

There are many other states that have already got laws that will trigger more Roe challenges. If Texas wants to join in a lawsuit that's fine, in the meantime this sounds like a smart move. It essentially is saying if Roe is overturned abortion will be illegal in Texas. Great, move on to the next item because anything else is just virtue signaling. It won't stop a single abortion. It won't carry the force of law. All it will do is distract from the other issues that a State that will likely be over 30 million soon has to deal with.

We only have our Leg meet for a brief time and we have other issues that need attention. The abortion fight isn't going to be won or lost based on passing another abortion bill that is a lock to be struck down. If ending abortion is truly your goal this bill is counterproductive.

---

Completely disagree. Passing a Bill that only goes into effect if the Supreme Court overturns a 50 year precedent is purely for show. Pass a real bill and let the Feds try to kill more Texas babies.

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Actually it isn't for show at all. Other states have passed those bills and those cases will go to the SC eventually. Texas can simply join those suits. If any of the suits win then it automatically becomes law. In the meantime you get the bill passed and on the books instead of spending massive amounts of time debating the issue when you only have a few days of the Session left. Whether they passed this bill or a bill that banned all abortions the same thing happens. This bill might even be used as a different way to approach the Court.

I don't doubt your sincerity but in the end you want a bigger virtue signal and not something that will make any legal difference.

C@LAg said:

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abortion is a non-starter, and nothing more than a way to raise election funds by BOTH parties.

The big secret is more than enough Republicans are OK with abortion that they do not want it to go away.

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16Ag18 said:

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50 years from now, we will look back and say "I can't believe abortion WAS legal back then"

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No we won't.
It will be more like, why did we take so long to make it just a couple of pills and why did we take so long to make birth control for both sexes free.

Don't be a coward. Abortion is murder. Those who engage in it should be treated as such. Murdering your own children is literally the most heinous crime imaginable.

Texas should be a sanctuary state for the unborn.

LOYAL AG said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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Why are the spending time on bills that will be immediately blocked by a federal court? I'd rather they take up and pass something stopping CRT.

Roe v Wade needs to be repealed so that the 57 states can make up their own minds on the issue of abortion. But until it is bills like this amount to grandstanding.

---

You don't get to court to have it overturned until you pass a bill that challenges it and creates the case.

---

Those bills are being passed in other states. How far has that gotten us?

My original assertion stands. Time is a precious commodity for the Texas Legislature and in the last 3+ weeks of this session spending time on a bill that's going to be immediately blocked is a poor decision if it means they don't spend that time on a bill to block CRT which will not be blocked and is crucial to the education of the children the Democrats aren't able to kill. I'm all for Texas taking up the fight against Roe v Wade but let's not pretend passing that was going to matter anytime soon.

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Agreed.

5 years from now or maybe longer, it will be rolled back in a bipartisan effort because of all of the suffering caused by a bunch of people who throw stones regardless of their own sin just like Ireland did. We already have vaginal ultrasounds and brochures that lie about health risks of abortion that don't exist. Planned Parenthood does more to avoid unwanted pregnancy than any other effort but have become a political football. Doctored videos are spread. One in 3 women get abortions. Think about that. So i guess all y'all self righteous upstanding good Christians treat ALL women with respect, take full responsibility for your own birth control, support your own children through full education and independence, support public education, help for single moms, teach your sons to respect women, respect your wives, ex-wives, and girlfriends, support child care programs, believe women who report sexual assault, harassment, and discrimination, yep the milk of human kindness is just pouring all over this topic and the others on abortion. Why would you not know 1 in 3 women get abortion? Could it be you are not the kind of man any woman would trust with something so personal?

Planned parenthood prevents unwanted pregnancies through heartless killing of human life.

What a glorious organization.

aggie93 said:

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SociallyConditionedAg said:

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aggie93 said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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Why are the spending time on bills that will be immediately blocked by a federal court? I'd rather they take up and pass something stopping CRT.

Roe v Wade needs to be repealed so that the 57 states can make up their own minds on the issue of abortion. But until it is bills like this amount to grandstanding.

---

You don't get to court to have it overturned until you pass a bill that challenges it and creates the case.

---

There are many other states that have already got laws that will trigger more Roe challenges. If Texas wants to join in a lawsuit that's fine, in the meantime this sounds like a smart move. It essentially is saying if Roe is overturned abortion will be illegal in Texas. Great, move on to the next item because anything else is just virtue signaling. It won't stop a single abortion. It won't carry the force of law. All it will do is distract from the other issues that a State that will likely be over 30 million soon has to deal with.

We only have our Leg meet for a brief time and we have other issues that need attention. The abortion fight isn't going to be won or lost based on passing another abortion bill that is a lock to be struck down. If ending abortion is truly your goal this bill is counterproductive.

---

Completely disagree. Passing a Bill that only goes into effect if the Supreme Court overturns a 50 year precedent is purely for show. Pass a real bill and let the Feds try to kill more Texas babies.

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Actually it isn't for show at all. Other states have passed those bills and those cases will go to the SC eventually. Texas can simply join those suits. If any of the suits win then it automatically becomes law. In the meantime you get the bill passed and on the books instead of spending massive amounts of time debating the issue when you only have a few days of the Session left. Whether they passed this bill or a bill that banned all abortions the same thing happens. This bill might even be used as a different way to approach the Court.

I don't doubt your sincerity but in the end you want a bigger virtue signal and not something that will make any legal difference.

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I don't get it. Passing a bill that only goes into effect if something with an infinitesimal chance of happening occurs is doing something, but passing a bill that actually bans abortion is virtue signaling? I guess we do have a different definition of the term.

Sully Dog said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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Why are the spending time on bills that will be immediately blocked by a federal court? I'd rather they take up and pass something stopping CRT.

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Insert why not both gif.

Seriously though, the left never hesitates to pass bills that infringe on our rights, and it's obvious the only way to stop murdering babies at this point is to slowly and methodically chip away at it. If you wait for RvW to be overturned it might happen by the time your grandchildren are old and grey.

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There might be 2 justices on the Supreme Court that would vote to overturn Roe. I say maybe 2 because last summer Louisiana's abortion law was voted down with only Thomas dissenting, and maybe Barrett would be the second.

The last 40 years have seen huge successes in the Pro-Life movement. There are now fewer abortions every year than when Roe was decided. Of course one is too many, but if you want to reduce abortions start donating to crisis pregnancy centers. They are notoriously underfunded, and if the people who say they hate abortions would either donate money or their time, abortions would become even more rare. Like most problems, the answer lies with the individual and not the government.

SociallyConditionedAg said:

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And when I say kill, he pretty much allowed it to stay a show bill. This amendment would have outlawed abortions in Texas starting September 1st. As it stands, it will only go into effect with an Amendment to the Constitution or if the Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade. Heck of a Legislature we've got there.

https://texasscorecard.com/state/house-speaker-kills-abortion-abolition-amendment/

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This isn't what happened.

Rep Slaton has been offering poor amendments all session. He's a Freshman. Rep Moody is solid on points of order and called it out for being poor. Slaton lost his amendment - again.

Speaker Phelan just passed the biggest pro life legislation in decades through the House (SB8) and took a beating for it. It's unfair to judge him on this pointless house bill just because Texas Scorecard has an agenda and Rep Slaton can't get an amendment through.