So, we have some important conservative fiction that epitomises the evils of the left we are starting to see today.

1984, Animal Farm, Atlas Shrugged, Fahrenheit 451.

What are the liberal counterparts. I could see the argument for Slaughterhouse 5, but anti war is as much a conservative position as a liberal one anymore. The Magnificent 7? Alenskis Rules for Radicals?

Not interested in save the planet stuff. Things other than that.

Interested in suggestions.

BusterAg said:

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So, we have some important conservative fiction that epitomises the evils of the left we are starting to see today.

1984, Animal Farm, Atlas Shrugged, Farenheight 451.

What are the liberal counterparts. I could see the argument for Slaughterhouse 5, but anti war is as much a conservative position as a liberal one anymore. The Magnificent 7? Alenskis Rules for Radicals?

Not interested in save the planet stuff. Things other than that.

Interested in suggestions.

---

Traditionally conservatives have been more "pro-war" than anti-war.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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BusterAg said:

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So, we have some important conservative fiction that epitomises the evils of the left we are starting to see today.

1984, Animal Farm, Atlas Shrugged, Farenheight 451.

What are the liberal counterparts. I could see the argument for Slaughterhouse 5, but anti war is as much a conservative position as a liberal one anymore. The Magnificent 7? Alenskis Rules for Radicals?

Not interested in save the planet stuff. Things other than that.

Interested in suggestions.

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Traditionally conservatives have been more "pro-war" than anti-war.

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Compared to Democrats? Recently?

I think that is a hard sell.

This isn't the 60's. War is a globalist issue. Conservatives are turning nationalistic and populist.

Honestly, I think it is DC and the industrial military complex that is pro war.

That's beside the point. Still looking for any good literature recommendations out there.

It's not fiction, but The End of Policing by Alex Vitale is a pretty good read. He makes the argument that law enforcement as we know it is a broken system built on a weak foundation. It well written and extensively sourced/cited. He backs up every single claim. I can't imagine many on here would read it though. But if you really want to get a different perspective, it's an excellent place to start.

BusterAg said:

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So, we have some important conservative fiction that epitomises the evils of the left we are starting to see today.

1984, Animal Farm, Atlas Shrugged, Farenheight 451.

What are the liberal counterparts. I could see the argument for Slaughterhouse 5, but anti war is as much a conservative position as a liberal one anymore. The Magnificent 7? Alenskis Rules for Radicals?

Not interested in save the planet stuff. Things other than that.

Interested in suggestions.

---

it's easy as hell to find one...put on a blindfold, sit back in your recliner, open up Netflix and click on anything...it's a sure bet you'll be watching a left-wing morality tale - replete with overly simplified plot lines, caricatured conservative villains and chocked with predictable, excruciatingly boring sanctimony

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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BusterAg said:

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So, we have some important conservative fiction that epitomises the evils of the left we are starting to see today.

1984, Animal Farm, Atlas Shrugged, Farenheight 451.

What are the liberal counterparts. I could see the argument for Slaughterhouse 5, but anti war is as much a conservative position as a liberal one anymore. The Magnificent 7? Alenskis Rules for Radicals?

Not interested in save the planet stuff. Things other than that.

Interested in suggestions.

---

Traditionally conservatives have been more "pro-war" than anti-war.

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James Madison.War of 1812 Democratic Republican Party later became Democratic Party
James Polk Mexican American war. Democrat
William McKinley Spanish American war. Republican
FDR WWII. Democrat
Truman Korea. Democrat
JFK Vietnam Democrat
LBJ escalated Vietnam Democrat
Clinton Kosovo. Democrat
Bush Afganistan Iraq. Republican
Obama. Syria Lydia Somalis Nigeria. Democrat
Bush Jr Iraq. Republican

Just saying

richardag said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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BusterAg said:

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So, we have some important conservative fiction that epitomises the evils of the left we are starting to see today.

1984, Animal Farm, Atlas Shrugged, Farenheight 451.

What are the liberal counterparts. I could see the argument for Slaughterhouse 5, but anti war is as much a conservative position as a liberal one anymore. The Magnificent 7? Alenskis Rules for Radicals?

Not interested in save the planet stuff. Things other than that.

Interested in suggestions.

---

Traditionally conservatives have been more "pro-war" than anti-war.

---

James Madison.War of 1812 Democratic Republican Party later became Democratic Party
James Polk Mexican American war. Democrat
William McKinley Spanish American war. Republican
FDR WWII. Democrat
Truman Korea. Democrat
JFK Vietnam Democrat
LBJ escalated Vietnam Democrat
Clinton Kosovo. Democrat
Bush Afganistan Iraq. Republican
Obama. Syria Lydia Somalis Nigeria. Democrat
Bush Jr Iraq. Republican

Just saying

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You left out Wilson a Democrat for WW I.

BusterAg said:

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So, we have some important conservative fiction that epitomises the evils of the left we are starting to see today.

1984, Animal Farm, Atlas Shrugged, Farenheight 451.

What are the liberal counterparts. I could see the argument for Slaughterhouse 5, but anti war is as much a conservative position as a liberal one anymore. The Magnificent 7? Alenskis Rules for Radicals?

Not interested in save the planet stuff. Things other than that.

Interested in suggestions.

---

Herein lies part of your problem...aside from Atlas Shrugged, which goes out of it's way to delineate between right and left, the left also claims these same books (in bold) as testaments for their belief that the right equals tyranny.

It's another example of the two realities that we live in. I think anyone that is objective and educated can clearly see that the the left is practically using these books as handbooks at this point. We have numerous examples documented on here daily. There is really no argument here.

However, I've actually had conversations about these books with my leftist dumbass friend and he makes the same claim that I do from his standpoint. He has zero facts and examples to back up his claims but, for the left, it doesn't matter. When I ultimately trash his stance or show his stance to be completely false, he simply doesn't care. He will deflect or bring up something Trump said. He's going to believe what he believes regardless of reality.

We are so polarized that we literally can't agree on reality anymore. It's maddening but that's where we are.

Starship Troopers is an interesting novel. Explores the potential benefit of military driven civic service and was made into a movie by a liberal who treated it like satire to warp its meaning.

Starship Troopers was an unserious movie about a seriously good book. No vote without service. Existential war against an alien enemy. I can also recommend the author's "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress" for teaching the conservative lesson of TANSTAAFL.

Upton Sinclair- The Jungle

bugslinger said:

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Upton Sinclair- The Jungle

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The driving force behind the birth of the FDA. Not a bad pick. Most of the government reforms that stemmed from this book were started by Teddy Roosevelt. So, not sure if it is really "liberal", though. But again, not wanting to split hairs.

Good pick. Keep them coming.

YouBet said:

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BusterAg said:

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So, we have some important conservative fiction that epitomises the evils of the left we are starting to see today.

1984, Animal Farm, Atlas Shrugged, Fahrenheit 451.

What are the liberal counterparts. I could see the argument for Slaughterhouse 5, but anti war is as much a conservative position as a liberal one anymore. The Magnificent 7? Alenskis Rules for Radicals?

Not interested in save the planet stuff. Things other than that.

Interested in suggestions.

---

Herein lies part of your problem...aside from Atlas Shrugged, which goes out of it's way to delineate between right and left, the left also claims these same books (in bold) as testaments for their belief that the right equals tyranny.

It's another example of the two realities that we live in. I think anyone that is objective and educated can clearly see that the the left is practically using these books as handbooks at this point. We have numerous examples documented on here daily. There is really no argument here.

However, I've actually had conversations about these books with my leftist dumbass friend and he makes the same claim that I do from his standpoint. He has zero facts and examples to back up his claims but, for the left, it doesn't matter. When I ultimately trash his stance or show his stance to be completely false, he simply doesn't care. He will deflect or bring up something Trump said. He's going to believe what he believes regardless of reality.

We are so polarized that we literally can't agree on reality anymore. It's maddening but that's where we are.

---

A conservative would never advance a claim that 2+2=5.

Every critic in the world that has ever reviewed Animal Farm has stated that it is clearly a critique of communist Russia.

Fahrenheit 451 = cancel culture.

I have many liberal friends. None of them think that these are critiques of capitalism or even Fascism.

I think that maybe your friend is an outlier.

BusterAg said:

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YouBet said:

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BusterAg said:

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So, we have some important conservative fiction that epitomises the evils of the left we are starting to see today.

1984, Animal Farm, Atlas Shrugged, Fahrenheit 451.

What are the liberal counterparts. I could see the argument for Slaughterhouse 5, but anti war is as much a conservative position as a liberal one anymore. The Magnificent 7? Alenskis Rules for Radicals?

Not interested in save the planet stuff. Things other than that.

Interested in suggestions.

---

Herein lies part of your problem...aside from Atlas Shrugged, which goes out of it's way to delineate between right and left, the left also claims these same books (in bold) as testaments for their belief that the right equals tyranny.

It's another example of the two realities that we live in. I think anyone that is objective and educated can clearly see that the the left is practically using these books as handbooks at this point. We have numerous examples documented on here daily. There is really no argument here.

However, I've actually had conversations about these books with my leftist dumbass friend and he makes the same claim that I do from his standpoint. He has zero facts and examples to back up his claims but, for the left, it doesn't matter. When I ultimately trash his stance or show his stance to be completely false, he simply doesn't care. He will deflect or bring up something Trump said. He's going to believe what he believes regardless of reality.

We are so polarized that we literally can't agree on reality anymore. It's maddening but that's where we are.

---

A conservative would never advance a claim that 2+2=5.

Every critic in the world that has ever reviewed Animal Farm has stated that it is clearly a critique of communist Russia.

Fahrenheit 451 = cancel culture.

I have many liberal friends. None of them think that these are critiques of capitalism or even Fascism.

I think that maybe your friend is an outlier.

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I hope that he is.

BusterAg said:

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bugslinger said:

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Upton Sinclair- The Jungle

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The driving force behind the birth of the FDA. Not a bad pick. Most of the government reforms that stemmed from this book were started by Teddy Roosevelt. So, not sure if it is really "liberal", though. But again, not wanting to split hairs.

Good pick. Keep them coming.

---

Came to mind due to the emphasis on socialism at the end.

On that note, Native Son and Invisible Man come to mind for the same reason, CRT notwithstanding.

Another right now, highly relevant book by Heinlein is Farnham's Freehold. It's a dystopian sci-fi novel on race reversal.

YouBet said:

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It's another example of the two realities that we live in. I think anyone that is objective and educated can clearly see that the the left is practically using these books as handbooks at this point. We have numerous examples documented on here daily. There is really no argument here.

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Quote:

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A conservative would never advance a claim that 2+2=5.

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this was one of the weirdest things i actually saw last year during all the culture war was educated, serious people saying 2+2=5. renowned liberals like James Lindsey, Weinstein, and the like were all WTH is happening?

i was dumbfounded because we have an actual book, 1984, where Orwell was pointing out that the attempt to shape facts into new approved Party groupthink using this specific example. Then people turn around and try to justify it and act like we don't understand what is literally happening. It wasn't even original like 1+1=3 or something. they just used the example from the book.

2020 was a masterclass of gaslighting and showing that you can beat people into submission if you repeat a lie often enough.

c-jags said:

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YouBet said:

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It's another example of the two realities that we live in. I think anyone that is objective and educated can clearly see that the the left is practically using these books as handbooks at this point. We have numerous examples documented on here daily. There is really no argument here.

---

Quote:

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A conservative would never advance a claim that 2+2=5.

---

this was one of the weirdest things i actually saw last year during all the culture war was educated, serious people saying 2+2=5. renowned liberals like James Lindsey, Weinstein, and the like were all WTH is happening?

i was dumbfounded because we have an actual book, 1984, where Orwell was pointing out that the attempt to shape facts into new approved Party groupthink using this specific example. Then people turn around and try to justify it and act like we don't understand what is literally happening. It wasn't even original like 1+1=3 or something. they just used the example from the book.

2020 was a masterclass of gaslighting and showing that you can beat people into submission if you repeat a lie often enough.

---

Also, all of the crap around "objectivity" and other rational, fact based realities as being white supremacist constructs. In other words, they are literally throwing reality out of the window and choosing to interpret things however they want.

It's as if they all deem themselves Wanda Maximoffs and just reshape things around them to however they want them to be.

It boggles the mind.

YouBet said:

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c-jags said:

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YouBet said:

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It's another example of the two realities that we live in. I think anyone that is objective and educated can clearly see that the the left is practically using these books as handbooks at this point. We have numerous examples documented on here daily. There is really no argument here.

---

Quote:

---

A conservative would never advance a claim that 2+2=5.

---

this was one of the weirdest things i actually saw last year during all the culture war was educated, serious people saying 2+2=5. renowned liberals like James Lindsey, Weinstein, and the like were all WTH is happening?

i was dumbfounded because we have an actual book, 1984, where Orwell was pointing out that the attempt to shape facts into new approved Party groupthink using this specific example. Then people turn around and try to justify it and act like we don't understand what is literally happening. It wasn't even original like 1+1=3 or something. they just used the example from the book.

2020 was a masterclass of gaslighting and showing that you can beat people into submission if you repeat a lie often enough.

---

, fact based realities as being white supremacist constructs.

It's as if they all deem themselves Wanda Maximoffs and just reshape things around them to however they want them to be,

It boggles the mind.

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eta: i don't care about the man's race in either instance. evil takes many forms white, black, and asian. man and woman. it's just the clear blaming of others for individual activities. i was pretty disgusted the other day when people began immediately asking about the race of the DPD officer who conducted a hit.

c-jags said:

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YouBet said:

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c-jags said:

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YouBet said:

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It's another example of the two realities that we live in. I think anyone that is objective and educated can clearly see that the the left is practically using these books as handbooks at this point. We have numerous examples documented on here daily. There is really no argument here.

---

Quote:

---

A conservative would never advance a claim that 2+2=5.

---

this was one of the weirdest things i actually saw last year during all the culture war was educated, serious people saying 2+2=5. renowned liberals like James Lindsey, Weinstein, and the like were all WTH is happening?

i was dumbfounded because we have an actual book, 1984, where Orwell was pointing out that the attempt to shape facts into new approved Party groupthink using this specific example. Then people turn around and try to justify it and act like we don't understand what is literally happening. It wasn't even original like 1+1=3 or something. they just used the example from the book.

2020 was a masterclass of gaslighting and showing that you can beat people into submission if you repeat a lie often enough.

---

, fact based realities as being white supremacist constructs.

It's as if they all deem themselves Wanda Maximoffs and just reshape things around them to however they want them to be,

It boggles the mind.

---

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Might as well unite against aliens from outer space. Has as much credibility.

The Democratic Party was the Conservative party for most of this country's history.

Noam Chomsky gives some very pertinent takes on policy. Maybe not really a `figure' to the Left though?

Joe Stiglitz is worth reading too if actually digging into the domestic. Especially the book on Power and Profits in the title.

If you can stomach them, even Michael Moore's writings, especially pre-Trump, have some points to make and are worth noticing.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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The Democratic Party was the Conservative party for most of this country's history.

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That's not a good argument to deal with today's trainwreck though. Pre WW I Germany was a great contributor to world culture. In the 1930's not so much. Massive regressions happen, and that has happened to the Democratic Party. The whole Trump thing was a response to this century, a symptom, not cause.