Are people getting hammered by electric bills?

9,986 Views | 132 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Zobel
Faustus
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Faustus said:

LostInLA07 said:

Hopefully not. Maybe check whatever card or account they had on file.

From their website:

Add $49 to your account balance upon enrollment. This is your money that goes to your future electricity use.
Your account balance will then be debited daily based on your usage.
When your account balance reaches $25 (our balance minimum), you will be recharged the $49 to ensure continued, uninterrupted service.

Good advice.
Will report back on the morrow. There might have been more shenanigans from the wife similar to letting me know about the bill via email.
Decided not to wait until tonight to get a more detailed explanation.

Turns out we've paid $900 of the bill. Griddy was drawing on the card, and then stopped at $900 of its own volition. I'm guessing once it started to get too outlandish someone in legal said they might want to hold off on the self-help even though their terms and conditions provided for it.
NomadicAggie
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AG
Boom...right on cue...

https://www.gvec.org/historic-freeze-leading-to-significantly-increased-bills-for-utility-customers/
ABATTBQ11
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Zobel said:

You're basically saying you, or maybe the average person, is incapable of making a rational decision about an electric bill. I don't agree.

Pricing isn't complex. There's a electricity facts label. It tells you how much you pay per kWhr. You don't need to know how the grid works to read that. Whatever your rate for that month is times how many kWhr you use is what you pay.

If you can't figure that out, you also can't understand how rent, or a mortgage, or a car payment, or a cell phone subscription works. I really don't know what to tell you.

Again, ignorance is expensive. At some point people have to accept responsibility. No one signs a contract for you. If you don't understand what you're signing, don't sign. If you sign anyway, and it doesn't go well, that isn't "bad customer service."


As stated, your explanation is oversimplified. It's easy to plan and calculate kWhr*price when price is known, but it's something else entirely to plan when it isn't known and price is variable, which is what is at issue here. At that point you're getting into price distributions and probability to estimate min and max price based on historical variance. Even if you fully understood how to do that, prices were so abnormal that they'd likely push you well outside even a 99% confidence interval, which would already be huge. Simple heuristics, how pretty much everyone estimates, is going to tell you that the kWhr price on a variable rate plan is never going to be in the hundreds of dollars per kWhr. Until it is.

What the average person doesn't understand is how the electricity market works and just how variable a variable rate plan can be because it's wholesale. When the typical kWhr price is something $0.10, the average consumer isn't going to consider that that cost could ever go to $10 or $100 a kWhr because it's so far beyond what is normal. It's like saying you're an idiot for getting a variable rate mortgage if your interest rate goes from 3.5% to 35,000% overnight. Unless they know the market and the price variability, the average person isn't going to ever consider this possibility and a variable rate plan looks more attractive and less risky than it actually is.




As for the last paragraph, it's pure condescension because you know the arena. I'm sure you have signed away all kinds of consent in software agreements and EULAs where you can't even fathom the impact because you don't understand the possibilities or the language used. It IS bad customer service to not fully and plainly inform customers of exactly what they're agreeing to and it's possible implications. If people were told that the kWhr price on their variable rate plan could go from cents to the hundreds or thousands of dollars in an emergency and they could have a five figure monthly bill, I'm sure many or even most of them would not have agreed to it.
TxTarpon
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Zobel
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There are three types of plans on power to choose.
There's a fixed rate plan, that's fixed through the period.
There are variable rate plans, those can change from month to month.
Then there are market rate plans, those also change from month to month, but tied to an index.

None of those are wholesale market options. As far as I know those are only through Griddy and a couple of other companies. If you don't understand what you're buying, how is that anyone's fault but your own?
Quote:

If people were told that the kWhr price on their variable rate plan culd go from cents to the hundreds or thousands of dollars in an emergency and they could have a five figure monthly bill, I'm sure many or even most of them would not have agreed to it.
I don't think this scenario exists, except for wholesale plans. And if you signed up for a wholesale plan without understanding that, that is on you.

I could be completely wrong. Has anyone had a rate change in their variable plan during the month??
Tom Doniphon
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Quote:

There's a whole website dedicated to educating you and helping you pick power. It's called Power to Choose.

The president said websites are racists.
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Thomas Ford 91
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My Griddy cost this Sunday vs my Griddy cost on Monday when the power was off 13 hours. I'll spend $1,400 this month with Griddy. Spent $115.74 in January. My fault for not checking my voicemail or email they sent me beforehand telling me to bail. I hope the stupid lawsuits don't drive them out of business.

LostInLA07
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Lawsuits won't. Uncollectable A/R might.

I think my REP went out of business over the last week because I'm now getting emails from a new company saying that they'll honor my existing rate for the remainder of the contract term.
fka ftc
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If REP goes under then you are sent to a "provider of last resort" which REPs must share in their responsibility taking on these customers.

I cannot remember the rules, but you may want to search on the quoted above and see what protections there are for you to keep existing rate or move to one of their plans.
BurnetAggie99
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tysker said:

HTownAg98 said:

If you're on a city owned utility like Austin Energy or CPS (San Antonio), you can't get another retail provider. I'm almost positive those muni utilities are fixed rate plans.
I was unaware any munis in Texas had such control still. I checked an Austin zipcode for myself and powertochoose search results return this: No plans found. Your zip code may not be in a service area open to competition.

Good info, thanks.



Deregulation made it mandatory for investor-owned utilities like Oncor but optional for municipal utilities and electric cooperatives like Austin Energy & Pedernales Electric Coop.

So municipalities and coops can decide not to participate in the competitive retail electricity market.

Municipal utilities normally serve a specific municipality and are owned by the city government and profits are reinvested into the infrastructure and operations.

Electric cooperatives are owned by their customers, and profits are either reinvested or distributed among electricity consumers. Municipal utilities and electric co-ops are examples of publicly-owned utilities, and they are both non-profit organizations.

From a financial standpoint, municipal utilities and electric coops in Texas are very stable businesses and have bond ratings of A or A+.

Municipalities and coops can only become deregulated through a resolution by their board of directors or governing body and you will never see them do this. If they were to agree the deregulation process then it is irreversible.
BurnetAggie99
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Examples of how Austin Energy & Pedernales Electric Coop structure their rates.

https://austinenergy.com/wcm/connect/4f5bf55e-f9a5-4997-8b00-c531065bd279/ResidentialService-FY2021.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CVID=nm9oLAL

https://www.pec.coop/your-service/our-rates/rates-pricing/residential-farm-ranch/rate-calculator/
Teslag
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Do you think the CEO of Griddy will be "perp walked"?
nhamp07
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If the wholesale price of power went up from $80 to $9000 for a MW for 3 days because ERCOT allowed rates to jump despite old regulations, who profits from that?
Zobel
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How did ercot "allow rates to jump"?
stone 1
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Just got my bill. It went up about 20% from the previous month.
gonemaroon
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Salute The Marines said:

Do you think the CEO of Griddy will be "perp walked"?
You mean actually get arrested? What would the crime be?
Tom Doniphon
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Mr Ford was posting, guaranteeing that Trump would be perp walked, not long after he got elected.

Shocking that he's on Griddy.
Kenneth_2003
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Zobel said:

How did ercot "allow rates to jump"?
I think the only argument to be made here was ERCOT using Real-Time Price Adders to peg the price at the statutory maximum of $9000/MW. As was stated in the article linked by gonemaroon in another thread (still on Pg 1) some thought ERCOT should have removed the price adders on Thursday afternoon rather than Friday morning.

Having said that, they were consistent with their original plan that the price adders would remain in effect until all non-damage caused outages were ended and the grid operating reserves were back in line with normal conditions.

I recall looking at the LMP rates on the ERCOT page Thursday and spot market prices were way way down, though still fluctuating wildly, but the price adders were still in effect.
Ag for Life
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Tom Doniphon said:

Mr Ford was posting, guaranteeing that Trump would be perp walked, not long after he got elected.

Shocking that he's on Griddy.
Looks like he's adept at making bad decisions.
SpreadsheetAg
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Quote:

The winter storm has caused worry and confusion for electricity customers across Texas. Direct Energy is working to address these concerns with our customers, including those around the fear of price spikes and POLR (Provider of Last Resort).

As always, we're here for you and in this together. Visit our winter storm resources page for more helpful tips.

Your current rate is protected
Unlike some providers, Direct Energy's residential fixed-rate and month-to-month plans are not tied to real-time market prices, protecting our customers from wholesale power price swings. Our residential customers will not see an increase in their current rate because of the February winter storm.

We won't transfer you to a Provider of Last Resort (POLR)
We've heard that some customers are concerned they may be transitioned to a "Provider of Last Resort" (POLR) following last week's events. While we don't have all the answers to the questions brought about by the winter storm, one thing we can assure you of is that Direct Energy will continue to be here to serve you. Other electricity providers may come and go, but we're here for the long haul.
tysker
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BurnetAggie99 said:

tysker said:

HTownAg98 said:

If you're on a city owned utility like Austin Energy or CPS (San Antonio), you can't get another retail provider. I'm almost positive those muni utilities are fixed rate plans.
I was unaware any munis in Texas had such control still. I checked an Austin zipcode for myself and powertochoose search results return this: No plans found. Your zip code may not be in a service area open to competition.

Good info, thanks.



Deregulation made it mandatory for investor-owned utilities like Oncor but optional for municipal utilities and electric cooperatives like Austin Energy & Pedernales Electric Coop.

So municipalities and coops can decide not to participate in the competitive retail electricity market.

Municipal utilities normally serve a specific municipality and are owned by the city government and profits are reinvested into the infrastructure and operations.

Electric cooperatives are owned by their customers, and profits are either reinvested or distributed among electricity consumers. Municipal utilities and electric co-ops are examples of publicly-owned utilities, and they are both non-profit organizations.

From a financial standpoint, municipal utilities and electric coops in Texas are very stable businesses and have bond ratings of A or A+.

Municipalities and coops can only become deregulated through a resolution by their board of directors or governing body and you will never see them do this. If they were to agree the deregulation process then it is irreversible.
I'm really surprised municipalities are willing to take the risks. Yes once they give up power they'll never get it back but all it takes is for one black-swan event for everything to fall apart and they will only have themselves to blame for upwards of decades. Outsourcing the revenue but also the guilt and responsibility. I'm not sure why munis would think they are better at managing, hedging and upkeeping such exposure and infrastructure over the long run.
BurnetAggie99
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tysker said:

BurnetAggie99 said:

tysker said:

HTownAg98 said:

If you're on a city owned utility like Austin Energy or CPS (San Antonio), you can't get another retail provider. I'm almost positive those muni utilities are fixed rate plans.
I was unaware any munis in Texas had such control still. I checked an Austin zipcode for myself and powertochoose search results return this: No plans found. Your zip code may not be in a service area open to competition.

Good info, thanks.



Deregulation made it mandatory for investor-owned utilities like Oncor but optional for municipal utilities and electric cooperatives like Austin Energy & Pedernales Electric Coop.

So municipalities and coops can decide not to participate in the competitive retail electricity market.

Municipal utilities normally serve a specific municipality and are owned by the city government and profits are reinvested into the infrastructure and operations.

Electric cooperatives are owned by their customers, and profits are either reinvested or distributed among electricity consumers. Municipal utilities and electric co-ops are examples of publicly-owned utilities, and they are both non-profit organizations.

From a financial standpoint, municipal utilities and electric coops in Texas are very stable businesses and have bond ratings of A or A+.

Municipalities and coops can only become deregulated through a resolution by their board of directors or governing body and you will never see them do this. If they were to agree the deregulation process then it is irreversible.
I'm really surprised municipalities are willing to take the risks. Yes once they give up power they'll never get it back but all it takes is for one black-swan event for everything to fall apart and they will only have themselves to blame for upwards of decades. Outsourcing the revenue but also the guilt and responsibility. I'm not sure why munis would think they are better at managing, hedging and upkeeping such exposure and infrastructure over the long run.


I've worked in the electric utility side in Engineering since 2004 and with some big utilities like PEC and Austin Energy. They do a great job of overseeing the grid and the lineman are some of the best at what they do. We have departments of employees that are industry expects in the field. I'd say half of Engineering department is Aggie Power Engineering grads.

80sGeorge
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Shout out to Gonemaroon for relaying this info pretty much in real time.

Zobel
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Quote:

Mr. Magness outlined the magnitude of last week's crisis during a presentation to Ercot's board of directors Wednesday in which he offered a timeline of what went wrong.

Wonder if that presentation is public record?
Big Bucks
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Believe it is on the ERCOT website.
XXXVII
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Zobel said:

Quote:

Mr. Magness outlined the magnitude of last week's crisis during a presentation to Ercot's board of directors Wednesday in which he offered a timeline of what went wrong.

Wonder if that presentation is public record?


Ask and ye shall receive.

http://www.ercot.com/content/wcm/key_documents_lists/225373/2.2_REVISED_ERCOT_Presentation.pdf

Some great information in there.
samurai_science
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tysker said:

rgag12 said:

Ol_Ag_02 said:

People who took the cheap way out with a variable rate to start are now whining when their luck runs out.

They should have to pay.


Yea those suckers that have to use the only energy company in town, and have that energy company pass on the 16,000% spike in natural gas to them deserve everything that's coming to them!
Who were these people exactly? Give me their zip code and lets go to powertochoose.org to see what options they have. With a little digging we can see what options they had have had over the last several years.
Try 78613
Zobel
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AG
Looks like they did what they could. Plants going offline all over the place.
 
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