Pumpkinhead said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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Trump got out voted because he's a jerk. Why is this so hard for you to believe? If there was cheating why did republicans pick up seats? If there was cheating why did Mitch win?

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The Mitch question is definitely a big hole in the conspiracy theories. McConnell is hated by the left as much as Trump, you would figure if they had some sophisticated cheating method in place to rig the election however they wanted, they'd have whacked Mitch McConnell too, because Biden in office with a Mitch controlled Senate is not nearly as useful to progressive left agendas as a true 'blue wave' would have been.

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that is why millions are being sent to GA to win both of those Senate seats and give Kamala the tie breaker

BanderaAg956 said:

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DD88 said:

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Instead of giving up, why don't you fight for election reform so that we can ensure the integrity of future elections?

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HOW?

---

by voting for reform candidates.

GeorgiAg said:

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Trump got out voted because he's a jerk. Why is this so hard for you to believe? If there was cheating why did republicans pick up seats? If there was cheating why did Mitch win?

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He was so hated even the mail in ballots not sent out walked themselves to the counting centers. 700k in PA alone.

Tanya 93 said:

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Pumpkinhead said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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Trump got out voted because he's a jerk. Why is this so hard for you to believe? If there was cheating why did republicans pick up seats? If there was cheating why did Mitch win?

---

The Mitch question is definitely a big hole in the conspiracy theories. McConnell is hated by the left as much as Trump, you would figure if they had some sophisticated cheating method in place to rig the election however they wanted, they'd have whacked Mitch McConnell too, because Biden in office with a Mitch controlled Senate is not nearly as useful to progressive left agendas as a true 'blue wave' would have been.

---

that is why millions are being sent to GA to win both of those Senate seats and give Kamala the tie breaker

---

I guess if the massive rigging is there then the Dems will win those races guaranteed. But if the GOP wins those GA runoffs, will be yet further example that 2020 was really just mostly about a majority voting Donald Trump out. It was a referendum on Trump personally.

Pumpkinhead said:

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Tanya 93 said:

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Pumpkinhead said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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Trump got out voted because he's a jerk. Why is this so hard for you to believe? If there was cheating why did republicans pick up seats? If there was cheating why did Mitch win?

---

The Mitch question is definitely a big hole in the conspiracy theories. McConnell is hated by the left as much as Trump, you would figure if they had some sophisticated cheating method in place to rig the election however they wanted, they'd have whacked Mitch McConnell too, because Biden in office with a Mitch controlled Senate is not nearly as useful to progressive left agendas as a true 'blue wave' would have been.

---

that is why millions are being sent to GA to win both of those Senate seats and give Kamala the tie breaker

---

I guess if the massive rigging is there then the Dems will win those races guaranteed. But if the GOP wins those GA runoffs, will be yet further example that 2020 was really just mostly about a majority voting Donald Trump out. It was a referendum on Trump personally.

---

That's the real trick. Dem stealing the Senate will be the signal to consider forceful opposition on multiple fronts as they play to simply impose tyranny. But if the GOP wins, it will leave the Presidential election standing by itself with all of its questions and dubious character as a seemingly obvious steal, but nonetheless an outlier....and thus...some doubts about what happened will linger...

titan said:

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Pumpkinhead said:

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Tanya 93 said:

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Pumpkinhead said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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Trump got out voted because he's a jerk. Why is this so hard for you to believe? If there was cheating why did republicans pick up seats? If there was cheating why did Mitch win?

---

The Mitch question is definitely a big hole in the conspiracy theories. McConnell is hated by the left as much as Trump, you would figure if they had some sophisticated cheating method in place to rig the election however they wanted, they'd have whacked Mitch McConnell too, because Biden in office with a Mitch controlled Senate is not nearly as useful to progressive left agendas as a true 'blue wave' would have been.

---

that is why millions are being sent to GA to win both of those Senate seats and give Kamala the tie breaker

---

I guess if the massive rigging is there then the Dems will win those races guaranteed. But if the GOP wins those GA runoffs, will be yet further example that 2020 was really just mostly about a majority voting Donald Trump out. It was a referendum on Trump personally.

---

That's the real trick. Dem stealing the Senate will be the signal to consider forceful opposition on multiple fronts as they play to simply impose tyranny. But if the GOP wins, it will leave the Presidential election standing by itself with all of its questions and dubious character as a seemingly obvious steal, but nonetheless an outlier....and thus...some doubts about what happened will linger...

---

I personally think this election was 'rigged' against Trump, but not in the vote counting. While there was no doubt some fraud counting votes, I am skeptical it was enough to swing the results across at least 3 states which is what Trump needs.

I think instead the election was 'rigged' by Google, Twitter, Facebook, etc. and MSM non-stop Orange Man Bad and manipulating information flow, which influenced voters.

Then on top of that, I think Trump was often his own worst enemy coming across as a narcissist ahole, with extremely high staff turnover which was a red flag, that played right into the MSM's hands.

Then there was the Pandemic which was just bad luck timing for Trump.

So even a zombie like Biden who had low enthusiasm from his base was in a winning position. He stayed out of sight and let the pandemic and MSM and tech companies and Trump's own undisciplined mouth do most of the campaign work for him, and here we are.

They stole the election but didn't bother to steal Lindsey Graham's senate seat or either or both of the GA seats or Joni Ernst's seat in IA or Cornyn's seat or McConnell's seat and the idiot dumbocrats and the soyboy left cashed a bunch of Soros checks all to put noted socialist and progressive icon Joe Effing Biden over the top. Thats the progression of events this board so desperately needs to believe.

Or...and hear me out...maybe an unpopular president during a pandemic lost.

But yeah, the system is rigged and the nation is lost because of all those other things.

So, sorry your boy lost, I guess.

That's been covered ad nauseum. Even the alleged election night actual next morning rigging was done hastily retroactively. They didn't have time.

Beside's Pumpkinhead has covered the other aspect. The rigging even began before---and it was all focused on the big ship, not the escorts. It was risky enough doing what they were doing.

Bring on POTUS Harris!

Pumpkinhead said:

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titan said:

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Pumpkinhead said:

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Tanya 93 said:

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Pumpkinhead said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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Trump got out voted because he's a jerk. Why is this so hard for you to believe? If there was cheating why did republicans pick up seats? If there was cheating why did Mitch win?

---

The Mitch question is definitely a big hole in the conspiracy theories. McConnell is hated by the left as much as Trump, you would figure if they had some sophisticated cheating method in place to rig the election however they wanted, they'd have whacked Mitch McConnell too, because Biden in office with a Mitch controlled Senate is not nearly as useful to progressive left agendas as a true 'blue wave' would have been.

---

that is why millions are being sent to GA to win both of those Senate seats and give Kamala the tie breaker

---

I guess if the massive rigging is there then the Dems will win those races guaranteed. But if the GOP wins those GA runoffs, will be yet further example that 2020 was really just mostly about a majority voting Donald Trump out. It was a referendum on Trump personally.

---

That's the real trick. Dem stealing the Senate will be the signal to consider forceful opposition on multiple fronts as they play to simply impose tyranny. But if the GOP wins, it will leave the Presidential election standing by itself with all of its questions and dubious character as a seemingly obvious steal, but nonetheless an outlier....and thus...some doubts about what happened will linger...

---

I personally think this election was 'rigged' against Trump, but not in the vote counting. While there was no doubt some fraud counting votes, I am skeptical it was enough to swing the results across at least 3 states which is what Trump needs.

I think instead the election was 'rigged' by Google, Twitter, Facebook, etc. and MSM non-stop Orange Man Bad and manipulating information flow, which influenced voters.

Then on top of that, I think Trump was often his own worst enemy coming across as a narcissist ahole, with extremely high staff turnover which was a red flag, that played right into the MSM's hands.

Then there was the Pandemic which was just bad luck timing for Trump.

So even a zombie like Biden who had low enthusiasm from his base was in a winning position. He stayed out of sight and let the pandemic and MSM and tech companies and Trump's own undisciplined mouth do most of the campaign work for him, and here we are.

---

If Republicans hold the Senate it will support your take---- one thing I like and can agree with is you fully recognize that much rigging was done in advance of the election 24/7 by Big Tech and Big Media. There is no way they would have spun or spiked the counterpart type of revelations that were made about Biden and Kamala if they had been Trump and Pence, and indeed, did not.

Thinking on what OP said.

I have always "felt" that our politicians were by and large selected for us. Not so much in the smaller races but in some of the larger ones. As time has gone on, I believe it has gotten more pervasive. 2020 is all that on steroids.

My family has the means to leave. I am hopeful that it doesn't come to that, but without transparency and legitimacy in the process, it may come to that. If I want to live in a banana republic, I want to know that going in.

Libs, please free to sell your schtick on why the US is the best banana republic. Then get back to pouring your customer's lattes.

superunknown said:

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They stole the election but didn't bother to steal Lindsey Graham's senate seat or either or both of the GA seats or Joni Ernst's seat in IA or Cornyn's seat or McConnell's seat and the idiot dumbocrats and the soyboy left cashed a bunch of Soros checks all to put noted socialist and progressive icon Joe Effing Biden over the top. Thats the progression of events this board so desperately needs to believe.

Or...and hear me out...maybe an unpopular president during a pandemic lost.

But yeah, the system is rigged and the nation is lost because of all those other things.

So, sorry your boy lost, I guess.

---

They were so panicked by Trump's margin of victory they had to stop voting in the POTUS states that mattered at 2am, and didn't have time to create ballots with more than one race marked. It was a red wave in all other chambers down ballot, and POTUS but for 4 cities.

If Trump's legacy is that he is such a sore loser that he convinces his cult followers that they shouldn't vote again because of some made up fraud, that would be awesome.

The alleged "stealing" of the election isn't the reason to not vote or to frankly be that concerned with, as there is very little hard evidence of it actually happening as the evidence varies from gut feelings based off of anecdotal notions of things like participation at rallies to irregularities and coincidences being interpolated into conspiracies.

What should give you pause snd cause you to question the purpose of voting and whether or not the citizenry is actually in control of government is the fact that the executive bureaucracies (in this case the FBI & national security apparatus of this country conspired with the previous presidential administration to initiate an entirely false investigation into the opposition party candidate's campaign, transition and then actual administration in an effort to initially prevent his election and subsequently remove from office the duly elected president of the United States because he was perceived as a threat to the status quo. And not only did this happen, but no one is going to suffer any consequences for it having happened. In essence we just te-elected the administration that instigated the activity to begin with.

When the permanent bureaucracy becomes self aware enough to engage in illegal clandestine political activities for the purposes of self-interest and self-preservation we no longer have a constitutional representative republic. The policies of government become set by those permanent bureaucracies that outlast presidents and congresses while we argue with distractions like pronoun usage, bathroom bills and kneeling athletes.

And while that has kind of always been true at a basic, practical level, it has never been true that the permanent bureaucracies (with the possible exception of the State Department) would act out and interfere with the election process out of self-interest to defend their power.

Pumpkinhead said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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Trump got out voted because he's a jerk. Why is this so hard for you to believe? If there was cheating why did republicans pick up seats? If there was cheating why did Mitch win?

---

The Mitch question is definitely a big hole in the conspiracy theories. McConnell is hated by the left as much as Trump, you would figure if they had some sophisticated cheating method in place to rig the election however they wanted, they'd have whacked Mitch McConnell too, because Biden in office with a Mitch controlled Senate is not nearly as useful to progressive left agendas as a true 'blue wave' would have been.

But conservatives did generally well in the 2020 election, keeping the Senate and gaining in the House. It was just Trump who came out on the losing end of the stick.

---

Tell that to John James who lost a tight race in a state with many discrepancies and questions.

Down ballot races don't neatly explain why the Midwest states paused counting on election night. Or Biden receiving more votes than Obama in certain battlegrounds he had to have but underperforming elsewhere. Or multiple counties in GA having more MIB's than usual but none thrown out.

Lots of questionable results in this election that don't add up.

If Trump had received less support than 2016, I could buy the talking point that his personality turned people off. But he received 10 million more votes and had approval ratings comparable to GWB and Obama going into the election.

So Biden received millions more than Obama from ballots that only voted President?

It doesn't add up.

Demand accountability from your state election agencies.

Quote:

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The sad part is that the "stolen election" doesn't exist

---

The really sad part is you believe this.

Just like Hunter's laptop was a hoax, but the Russia collusion story wasn't.

pagerman @ work said:

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The alleged "stealing" of the election isn't the reason to not vote or to frankly be that concerned with, as there is very little hard evidence of it actually happening as the evidence varies from gut feelings based off of anecdotal notions of things like participation at rallies to irregularities and coincidences being interpolated into conspiracies.

What should give you pause snd cause you to question the purpose of voting and whether or not the citizenry is actually in control of government is the fact that the executive bureaucracies (in this case the FBI & national security apparatus of this country conspired with the previous presidential administration to initiate an entirely false investigation into the opposition party candidate's campaign, transition and then actual administration in an effort to initially prevent his election and subsequently remove from office the duly elected president of the United States because he was perceived as a threat to the status quo. And not only did this happen, but no one is going to suffer any consequences for it having happened. In essence we just te-elected the administration that instigated the activity to begin with.

When the permanent bureaucracy becomes self aware enough to engage in illegal clandestine political activities for the purposes of self-interest and self-preservation we no longer have a constitutional representative republic. The policies of government become set by those permanent bureaucracies that outlast presidents and congresses while we argue with distractions like pronoun usage, bathroom bills and kneeling athletes.

And while that has kind of always been true at a basic, practical level, it has never been true that the permanent bureaucracies (with the possible exception of the State Department) would act out and interfere with the election process out of self-interest to defend their power.

---

91AggieLawyer said:

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Quote:

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The sad part is that the "stolen election" doesn't exist

---

The really sad part is you believe this.

Just like Hunter's laptop was a hoax, but the Russia collusion story wasn't.

---

I never believed the Russian collusion story, either. I'm sure lots of foreign interests try to influence every election, but I never thought Trump was involved. The stories around Hunter's laptop are difficult to prove, from what I've seen, and revolve more around Hunter. But if there's enough there to make serious allegations, I'm all for pursuing them.

Elections after January 2021 are an open question, depending on the Senate run-off. But it is absolutely crucial Georgians turn out to vote for the Republicans on Jan 5 and that Trumpers support this without dwelling on details for the reasons given here:

Will Perdue insider trading flip one GA seat? | TexAgs

Quote:

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Quote:

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titan said:
That's an easy call though if Trumpers stop and think about it.

They need to turn out en-masse, and make sure they capture both seats.

Never mind any gripes with GA's leadership or the RNC.

IF the Dems get all three branches, its clear they will show no restrait. From the scapegoating lust of the Media and several Progs to all their desire "to change America and the world" -- it shows its now clear rebellion, nullification or even break up would have to at least be on the table, so this is the easiest way to avoid that.

Consider a vote to avoid having to go next level. That's how Georgian Trumpers should see it.

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Sterling82 said:

I said the same when never trumpers refused to support Trump...not only, the cowards voted for Biden!

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Quote:

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Well its even more true now. A repeat of 1994 with a Dem President and a Congress if not quite Republican is kind of gridlocked, could lead to a good few years and full recovery.

All three branches under this militant version with the same crooks Pelosi and Schumer in charge and Big Media entirely in the tank for socialism --- it would likely require the big showdown.

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BBRex said:

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91AggieLawyer said:

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Quote:

---

The sad part is that the "stolen election" doesn't exist

---

The really sad part is you believe this.

Just like Hunter's laptop was a hoax, but the Russia collusion story wasn't.

---

I never believed the Russian collusion story, either. I'm sure lots of foreign interests try to influence every election, but I never thought Trump was involved. The stories around Hunter's laptop are difficult to prove, from what I've seen, and revolve more around Hunter. But if there's enough there to make serious allegations, I'm all for pursuing them.

---

The problem is, is that the same people who are saying the election was in no way fraudulent are the ones that had no interest in pursuing the laptop story because they were deathly afraid of where it may lead. Are we to trust those people in telling us what's what on the status of the election? This isn't about just you.

But even if it was, its one thing to say you haven't seen enough evidence. I'd say that's still ludicrous and a definite head in the sand view, however, I'm honest enough to say that's my opinion. But to say that, after less than a month it "doesn't exist" is absolute stupidity. On one hand you say foreign interests try to "influence" the election yet on the other you scoff at the notion that a party that would have a direct benefit wouldn't do more than just try and influence it -- a party that has much more in the way of means and opportunity to do so than any foreign government as they have people that buy election machines, send out ballots and count votes.

I don't do much, if any litigation anymore. I've had numerous jury trials and conducted many voir dire sessions. I've asked a LOT of questions in voir dire of prospective jurors that some may deem silly or outright absurd. I can't think of specific examples off the top of my head this second, but if I do, I'll edit this post, but I hope you'll just take my word for it. One thing I've never, ever asked is this: if our first witness in his first few minutes of testimony doesn't absolutely prove my clients claims to your complete satisfaction, overcoming all of your biases and prejudices, are you going to hold that against my client? ESPECIALLY given a case where all it takes is a simple allegation of "I saw someone do X" to prove your claim. The left has been saying the same thing now for over 3 weeks. They're going to continue to say it regardless of what is found.

As I said on another thread, the famous USSC case of Brown v. Board of Education started out in the District court with a loss yet ended up a 9-0 decision in the USSC.

TEX465 said:

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unmade bed said:

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TEX465 said:

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Let me flip the discussion.

What concrete reason does anyone here have that justifies the hope that the system, as it currently exists, enables us to turn the ship around?

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Uh, Republicans picked up a number of seats in the House. Overperformed expectations for the Senate. Continue to have significant advantages in state governships and legislatures. Literally lost 1 election with a very divisive and not all that popular president (extremely popular with his supporters though) and you guys are acting like it's time to just throw in the towel and surrender on the whole voting thing because it's rigged. It's ridiculous.

---

1. We are 27T in debt and that's snowballing.
2. The entire education system teaches that America and capitalism sucks, and that is snowballing
3. Free speech/thought is dying on campus and that is snowballing.
4. The young are championing socialism and that is snowballing.
5. Identity politics as the norm is snowballing.
6. Corporate America is woke, and that is snowballing.
7. Large companies and big government are sleeping together.
8. The deep state has proven it can stop administrations it doesn't like and that is snowballing.
9. The media is now a deep-state propaganda outlet, and that is snowballing.
10. Big tech is the heart of our connected world and their run by the people above.
11. And I almost forgot, elections in the US can be rigged by the people above without consequence.
12. Half of the country is okay with all the above.

How's that for starters?

The data points you provide don't represent systemic hope but serve as a reminder of how many of us will still get rolled over by the system.

---

This is why it might be best for Trump to start a media empire. To re-educate the re-educated.

Pumpkinhead said:

---

GeorgiAg said:

---

Trump got out voted because he's a jerk. Why is this so hard for you to believe? If there was cheating why did republicans pick up seats? If there was cheating why did Mitch win?

---

The Mitch question is definitely a big hole in the conspiracy theories. McConnell is hated by the left as much as Trump, you would figure if they had some sophisticated cheating method in place to rig the election however they wanted, they'd have whacked Mitch McConnell too, because Biden in office with a Mitch controlled Senate is not nearly as useful to progressive left agendas as a true 'blue wave' would have been.

But conservatives did generally well in the 2020 election, keeping the Senate and gaining in the House. It was just Trump who came out on the losing end of the stick.

---

It's long game Dem strategy, man. Trump getting taken out by election fraud is merely a warning shot to the Republicans in Senate and House. They will do what the Dems tell them to do or they will be primaried by someone of the Dems choosing.

Vote? Really?

We are in the path to full communism. If we are lucky, it will only stop at socialism, but I doubt it.

91AggieLawyer said:

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BBRex said:

---

91AggieLawyer said:

---

Quote:

---

The sad part is that the "stolen election" doesn't exist

---

The really sad part is you believe this.

Just like Hunter's laptop was a hoax, but the Russia collusion story wasn't.

---

I never believed the Russian collusion story, either. I'm sure lots of foreign interests try to influence every election, but I never thought Trump was involved. The stories around Hunter's laptop are difficult to prove, from what I've seen, and revolve more around Hunter. But if there's enough there to make serious allegations, I'm all for pursuing them.

---

The problem is, is that the same people who are saying the election was in no way fraudulent are the ones that had no interest in pursuing the laptop story because they were deathly afraid of where it may lead. Are we to trust those people in telling us what's what on the status of the election? This isn't about just you.

But even if it was, its one thing to say you haven't seen enough evidence. I'd say that's still ludicrous and a definite head in the sand view, however, I'm honest enough to say that's my opinion. But to say that, after less than a month it "doesn't exist" is absolute stupidity. On one hand you say foreign interests try to "influence" the election yet on the other you scoff at the notion that a party that would have a direct benefit wouldn't do more than just try and influence it -- a party that has much more in the way of means and opportunity to do so than any foreign government as they have people that buy election machines, send out ballots and count votes.

I don't do much, if any litigation anymore. I've had numerous jury trials and conducted many voir dire sessions. I've asked a LOT of questions in voir dire of prospective jurors that some may deem silly or outright absurd. I can't think of specific examples off the top of my head this second, but if I do, I'll edit this post, but I hope you'll just take my word for it. One thing I've never, ever asked is this: if our first witness in his first few minutes of testimony doesn't absolutely prove my clients claims to your complete satisfaction, overcoming all of your biases and prejudices, are you going to hold that against my client? ESPECIALLY given a case where all it takes is a simple allegation of "I saw someone do X" to prove your claim. The left has been saying the same thing now for over 3 weeks. They're going to continue to say it regardless of what is found.

As I said on another thread, the famous USSC case of Brown v. Board of Education started out in the District court with a loss yet ended up a 9-0 decision in the USSC.

---

The difference between foreign meddling and potential domestic meddling is that for foreign meddling, this type of discord is itself a victory and can be done without actual election tampering. For the Democrats to pull off what is being alleged, they would need a huge team pull it off. They also would have to do it in such a way as to leave no trace. How a broke-ass, mostly disorganized Democratic Party was able to systematically subvert elections in three states using different (although we're not sure how there hasn't been anything shown) methods and with the help of at least one state's GOP counterparts seems highly unlikely. But if, in fact, it did happen, how likely would it be that someone wouldn't have discovered at least some real evidence? Maybe Rudy and Sidney and the gang aren't crack lawyers? I don't know, law isn't my area. I'll admit that three weeks isn't much time, but then why make grandiose claims? A deep dive into mail-in ballots in PA, for example, would seem to make sense. Talking about a server grab in Germany or confusing states in voter counts or saying companies are linked in ways that are easily proven untrue isn't just counterproductive it undermines the whole case.

BanderaAg956 said:

---

DD88 said:

---

Instead of giving up, why don't you fight for election reform so that we can ensure the integrity of future elections?

---

HOW?

---

We need to shame those election officials who blocked windows, separated poll watchers, and stopped counting for mythical sewage leaks and other shenanigans.

We need to lobby our state and local representatives to pass legislative reform so that
all ballots are secure at all times,
a count of votes are known on election night and no new ballots can be "found" w/o a court order,
counting is observed by all parties(maybe even recorded on video),
mail-in ballots are limited and use a secure blockchain-style mechanism to track,
and voter rolls are cleaned out of dead, moved, or illegal voters.

In Texas, the State GOP has Election Integrity at the top of it's Legislative Priorities:
https://www.texasgop.org/priorities/

If/when BidenHeimer opens the borders, none of this is gonna matter anyway.

I want a ringside seat when the blacks wake up long enough to realize open borders dilutes their impact as a race. It's as though the blacks are axing to be taken advantage of. Lulled into complacency by dsnap, Medicare and welfare. They need to wake up before they are completely marginalized. Same goes for the trannies and rainbow warriors. The time will come when they curry no more favor. A brood mare only has so many teats!

Stumpknocker said:

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If/when BidenHeimer opens the borders, none of this is gonna matter anyway.

I want a ringside seat when the blacks wake up long enough to realize open borders dilutes their impact as a race. It's as though the blacks are axing to be taken advantage of. Lulled into complacency by dsnap, Medicare and welfare. They need to wake up before they are completely marginalized. Same goes for the trannies and rainbow warriors. The time will come when they curry no more favor. A brood mare only has so many teats!

---

Here's a hint: the racial tensions and rioting and BLM stuff is a direct result of the failure of 0 to do anything at all to improve the lives of blacks and black families over the course of 8 full years, as well as the last spasmodic gasps of a minority group realizing they are on the cusp of being surpassed in the pecking order of governmental and societal attention by "Hispanics" of all nationalities and desperately trying to cling to power and relevance.

Because once it happens, it is gone forever.