I'm blocked from reading the NYTimes article and I can't find other information about this case.

What is the argument here? Is it that he didn't do it? Or that he did do it but shouldn't get the death penalty.

PascalsWager said:

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I'm blocked from reading the NYTimes article and I can't find other information about this case.

What is the argument here? Is it that he didn't do it? Or that he did do it but shouldn't get the death penalty.

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It is that Trump is racist

Keeper of The Spirits said:

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I am basing it on my experience with the justice system , my profession, and my volunteer work and comments on this thread alone should make your realize that we are not as far from To Kill a Mockingbird as we should be.

I believe that anyone can make a fair decision but when their is evidence of people being excluded from jury service because of their race, religion or gender we need to look at the motives behind why the black jurors were excluded and if that affected the accused right to a fair trial and trial by their peers

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I do not share your reflexive outrage at comments in this thread, and I suspect you have been conditioned for a long time to use these pious bromides as a means of signalling your conformity to the reigning orthodoxy.You propose the existence of a problem then seek to remedy that problem by doing the very thing you claim is the source of harm. Do you have evidence that black jurors were excluded from this defendant's trial? Or is that subtle rhetorical device designed to keep the argument inside of your frame, which is essentially that America is a uniquely racist country and we need a clean break with our past in order to progress to a just society.

PascalsWager said:

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I'm blocked from reading the NYTimes article and I can't find other information about this case.

What is the argument here? Is it that he didn't do it? Or that he did do it but shouldn't get the death penalty.

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Just another example in the long line of examples where the left complains about accountability. The latest movement by BLM is that blacks should no longer be held accountable for anything and should effectively get to live free and clear off of white people and under no rules or laws.

Good Poster said:

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This man kidnapped a 16 year old girl, raped her repeatedly, and then burned her alive.

A truly sick and disgusting man got what he deserved.

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I disagree. He deserved to be raped repeatedly and then burned alive with his family and friends watching.

Keeper of The Spirits said:

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An all white jury shouldn't be seated for the trial of a black person, that is a pretty common factor in wrongful convictions, however this is not one of those situations where he wasn't guilty. All his accomplices testified against him and I don't believe he claimed innocence post conviction. The primary factors in wrongful convictions are:

Eyewitness misidentification.
False confessions or admissions.
Government misconduct.
Inadequate defense.
Informants (e.g., jailhouse snitches)
Unvalidated or improper forensic science.

Intentionally seating an all white jury is a form of government misconduct and happens pretty regularly. An accused person should have at least some people from their social station in life. Doug Evans in Mississippi was over 4x more likely to use a peremptory strike on a black person than a white person over 26 years. I oppose the death penalty but only because the consequences of being wrong are so high. This is not one of those cases. Justice was served and I wish people would not use this one as an example for justice system reform.





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A rare thing in this forum. A reasonable post with supporting information that is accurate.

Blue parachute for you. Racism does exist. To act as though it does not is silly. However none of that applies in this case. I am not generally a fan of the death penalty but some crimes are so abhorrent that you forfeit your right to live in society. This is one of those cases.

Here's a listing of the Federal executions under Trump.

All richly deserved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_executed_by_the_United_States_federal_government

Quote:

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There were no federal executions under Pres. Obama, and Biden plans to end them as well.

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Obama didn't "end them". There were none during the last five years of Bush 43, and

Quote:

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In 2014, following a botched state execution in Oklahoma, President Barack Obama directed the Justice Department to conduct a broad review of capital punishment and issues surrounding lethal injection drugs.

The attorney general said last July that the Obama-era review had been completed, clearing the way for executions to resume.

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Lived far too long and death was far too easily for this subhuman POS. Should have had him build his own gallows, spent a half hour tying his legs and hands together, sat him in a chair like Mary Surratt and crew, then everyone should have stopped for lunch and made him wait a bit.

All of those executed this year by the federal government were white except for this guy, and one other who was Indian (feather, not dot).

I agree that racism very much exists.

Sadly the left has cast the net so wide on the term that the term is almost useless.

"You are racist because you aren't liberal!"

"Ok thanks, keep the change. The restroom is out of paper towels."

All white juries are a factor in wrongful conviction.

What a crock of *****

This isn't 1965 anymore

How do we know that blacks weren't selected to be on the jury but declined to be part of the case due to personal preferences? Or maybe they didn't show up, what facts do we know about the selection? I'm almost sure people online that express their opinions like this don't study the case and all the details. They only see skin colors and react on emotions.

Thank God you are here brother.

cisgenderedAggie said:

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I agree on ending capital punishment, even for someone like this. Indefinite solitary confinement with bread, beans, and water (as can be spared). Put this ****er in a hole and let negligence kill it.

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Well if you think your idea of punishment is a worse fate than going by injection...your vision of "humane punishment" is...well, just wrong.

Keeper of The Spirits said:

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Before we take a persons life we owe them a duty to make sure they are guilty. All white juries are a factor in wrongful conviction which is as damaging to our system as voter fraud.

We have don't that in this case, so if examining jury make up is the part of the problem I am not sure what the problem is,

Saying he is not guilty just because it was an all white jury is certainly part of the problem of the lack of meaningful discussions about where our justice system can be improved

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So a white person can't listen to evidence and determine guilt or innocence because we are all racists?

cisgenderedAggie said:

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FDT92 said:

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This is absolutely unforgivable. We need to pass a law that makes sure there's demographic space in death row before allowing a sentence to occur, regardless of verdict and even if the number of death row inmates is too small to be a representative statistical sampling of the American population.

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Agree. We need deathrow quotas like we have for corporate hiring.

To all you bleeding hearts, here's some truth. Most blacks are tribal and they will stand with another black no matter what. Putting a black on a jury trying another black carries a heavy risk because blacks are the ones who can only see skin color. Look at the OJ trial and that was years ago, it is much worse now. Whites on juries turn themselves inside out to ignore skin, blacks embrace it.

I think many, if not most blacks in "the neighborhoods" are righteously against police because they know their own future actions may bring them in contact with cops. They are covering their future butts.

The fact is 13% of the population is creating 40%+ of the crime problem. The fact is blacks are many times more racist against whites then vice versa. Another fact is there are good law abiding blacks with outstanding life values, but most do little or nothing to change or or even criticize their wayward brethren. No public, outward involvement or comment if it is another black. Black crime does not exist in their world until it hits them personally and then they wail about it being white society's fault.

All of this is a reality which one ignores at their own risk, and at their family's peril. Don't be ignorant of the real world.

I find it absolutely comical that liberals are against the death penalty... except in the case of unborn babies

cisgenderedAggie said:

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I agree on ending capital punishment, even for someone like this. Indefinite solitary confinement with bread, beans, and water (as can be spared). Put this ****er in a hole and let negligence kill it.

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Eff that.
Why put these monsters behind bars where they get a roof over their head, 3 meals a day, free health care, free dental, free educational opportunities... ect ect ect
Oh and tax free

Only cost we should inquire is the cost of a bullet

FDT92 said:

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I don't see color. Show it to me by socio econmico class.

BigOil said:

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Ocean Of Funk said:

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Blacks are notorious for giving fellows blacks a pass. Might ruffle some feathers, but it is true

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Maybe some are, but why make blanket statements like that?

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oh lighten up, white knight. dave chappelle has literally made jokes/skits around this very subject.

agdad4x said:

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I find it absolutely comical that liberals are against the death penalty... except in the case of unborn babies

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How else will they provide child sacrifices to their false gods? They are influenced and some are controlled by demonic forces. That is why you will never find one against abortion even though they are against the death penalty.

It is sad they have no problem murdering babies but adults who deserve death due to their atrocious evil crimes they seem to protect.

Well here is the good news, Cis didn't use the n word like I thought he did, I assumed that would earn a ban even here. When I attempted to quote it showed the the word was f-er, I was having trouble trying to figure out how people didn't see that as racist.

The color of your skin does not change your ability to make a fair decision more does it make you more likely to commit a crime. The issue is certainly more socioeconomic in origin. Then, you have bad actors like the Doug Evans which really throw a wrench in thing.

Can an all white jury make a fair decision? Yes
Can an all black jury make a fair decision? Yes
Do people holding large generalizations about people based on the color of their skin introduce issues on a jury? Yes
Should people be systematically excluded from service because their skin color? No
Should a jury be required to have a certain makeup? No
Is abortion wrong after the child become a sentient being? Yes - but that can be discussed on another thread
Do racist and racism still exist ? Yes but it's certainly better than it was, and white people can also be subjected to racism.
Do racists serve as cops, DAs and jurors? - sometimes but not nearly most of the time
Can a person of color provide perspective on a jury than a white person? - yes and the opposite it also true
Can an all white jury, for a white victim with a minority accused appear tribalistic? Yes
Are black people more likely to be wrongfully convicted? Yes, at almost a 3x rate when you look at the registry of the exonerated
Was this guy guilty and deserved what he got? Yes


Hypothetically would you want to be tried by an all-black/hispanic/other than your race jury for a crime against a black/Hispanic/other than your race jury?A 2012 study showed that in some areas All-White juries convicted Black defendants 16 percent more often than White defendants, but when at least one Black person was on the jury, conviction rates for Black and White defendants were nearly identical. I am not asserting that an all white jury is wrong, but I am saying that before we take a persons life or freedom we need to be sure. Based on the data available it should atleast be examined.

jagged said:

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FDT92 said:

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So this is submitted without comment, but what point are you trying to make? That a good portion on death row are white? Or that black people are 44% of this group despite being 14% of the population?

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He has no point without context.