Conservative Ag said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Viper16 said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Gigem314 said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Gigem314 said:

---

Jorgensen voters were never going to vote for Trump anyway. So anything that takes away from Biden is a positive.

---

I told my sister that I was cancelling out her vote for Trump by voting for Jorgensen.

She didn't seem to mind.

---

Probably because she figured you'd never vote Trump but is glad Biden gets one less vote.

I have family that did the same. They didn't vote for Trump in 2016 either.

But I've gone from 3rd party to Trump. And hear from more that have done the same than sticking with 3rd party.

---

Biden never would have had a chance of getting my vote, Libertarians or not. I would have found someone else or just skipped the Presidential election on the ballot entirely.

---

Just curious........

What are you looking for in a candidate?

What is your position on border security, the economy, the current type of energy production, income tax structure to include state and local taxes, job production, foreign policy, 1st amendment protection, 2nd amendment protection, sedition committed by the highest levels of the FBI, CIA and the former Executive branch, basic rule of law........just for starters.

I truly would like to know why individuals vote Libertarian.

JMHO....no Diss intended

---

I want someone who has either solid classical liberal or solid conservative principles and who acts according to those principles.

Biden's principles appear to be rather minimal and are neither classical liberal nor conservative principles. Although Biden seems to be closer to the center in many ways, I don't believe that he is strong enough to hold his position against those much further to the left.

Trump not only has no principles, but he seems to take intentional ignorance of principles as a virtue.

By the way, the current issue of National Review has this at https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2020/11/02/trump-no/

Quote:

---

All presidents have lapses in judgment, honesty, and self-control; many of them have even been wanting, at least sometimes, in decency and public-spiritedness. Trump is alarmingly deficient in all of these qualities at once, and their lack has marked every day of his presidency.

You don't have to believe any anonymous sources in the news to see it. You need only watch the president and listen to him. On any given day, he will be calling a former member of his administration a "moron," or taking shots at one of its current members. Or live-tweeting his feelings about the cable-news shows he is watching. Or casually endorsing some nutty and slanderous theory, as when he suggested that top military leaders "want to do nothing but fight wars" to profit defense companies. Or confusing allies and opponents alike with some half-baked idea.

---

Also, in the summary of the article as to voting for a third party candidate:

Quote:

---

The voter who decides that neither Biden nor Trump deserves his support will be accused of irresponsibility, of escapism, of indulging a sense of moral purity, of wasting a vote. There is, on this view, an obligation to pick among the top two candidates. It is worth resisting this supposed imperative. If a vote that does not determine the outcome of an election is wasted, then every vote is wasted and wasted all the more if it is cast for someone the voter does not want to be president. The Biden supporters and the Trump supporters who tell you "it's a binary choice" want you to vote as though the election result were wholly in your hands. And if that scenario were not contrived enough, they implicitly add that at the same time you don't have the power to elevate a write-in candidate. You must imagine both that your power is counterfactually absolute and that you cannot choose options that are plainly before you (writing someone in, voting third party, etc.).

... The truth is that neither of these candidates is worthy of the public's trust. So don't vote for either one of them, and don't let anyone tell you that you have to.

---

---

You are incredibly exhausting.

---

I honestly answered an honest question. If you find a discussion incredibly exhausting, then it says a hell of a lot about you than about me.

You get an F on your civics test and win a weekend at hunter's As a reward!

eric76 said:

---

Conservative Ag said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Viper16 said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Gigem314 said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Gigem314 said:

---

Jorgensen voters were never going to vote for Trump anyway. So anything that takes away from Biden is a positive.

---

I told my sister that I was cancelling out her vote for Trump by voting for Jorgensen.

She didn't seem to mind.

---

Probably because she figured you'd never vote Trump but is glad Biden gets one less vote.

I have family that did the same. They didn't vote for Trump in 2016 either.

But I've gone from 3rd party to Trump. And hear from more that have done the same than sticking with 3rd party.

---

Biden never would have had a chance of getting my vote, Libertarians or not. I would have found someone else or just skipped the Presidential election on the ballot entirely.

---

Just curious........

What are you looking for in a candidate?

What is your position on border security, the economy, the current type of energy production, income tax structure to include state and local taxes, job production, foreign policy, 1st amendment protection, 2nd amendment protection, sedition committed by the highest levels of the FBI, CIA and the former Executive branch, basic rule of law........just for starters.

I truly would like to know why individuals vote Libertarian.

JMHO....no Diss intended

---

I want someone who has either solid classical liberal or solid conservative principles and who acts according to those principles.

Biden's principles appear to be rather minimal and are neither classical liberal nor conservative principles. Although Biden seems to be closer to the center in many ways, I don't believe that he is strong enough to hold his position against those much further to the left.

Trump not only has no principles, but he seems to take intentional ignorance of principles as a virtue.

By the way, the current issue of National Review has this at https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2020/11/02/trump-no/

Quote:

---

All presidents have lapses in judgment, honesty, and self-control; many of them have even been wanting, at least sometimes, in decency and public-spiritedness. Trump is alarmingly deficient in all of these qualities at once, and their lack has marked every day of his presidency.

You don't have to believe any anonymous sources in the news to see it. You need only watch the president and listen to him. On any given day, he will be calling a former member of his administration a "moron," or taking shots at one of its current members. Or live-tweeting his feelings about the cable-news shows he is watching. Or casually endorsing some nutty and slanderous theory, as when he suggested that top military leaders "want to do nothing but fight wars" to profit defense companies. Or confusing allies and opponents alike with some half-baked idea.

---

Also, in the summary of the article as to voting for a third party candidate:

Quote:

---

The voter who decides that neither Biden nor Trump deserves his support will be accused of irresponsibility, of escapism, of indulging a sense of moral purity, of wasting a vote. There is, on this view, an obligation to pick among the top two candidates. It is worth resisting this supposed imperative. If a vote that does not determine the outcome of an election is wasted, then every vote is wasted and wasted all the more if it is cast for someone the voter does not want to be president. The Biden supporters and the Trump supporters who tell you "it's a binary choice" want you to vote as though the election result were wholly in your hands. And if that scenario were not contrived enough, they implicitly add that at the same time you don't have the power to elevate a write-in candidate. You must imagine both that your power is counterfactually absolute and that you cannot choose options that are plainly before you (writing someone in, voting third party, etc.).

... The truth is that neither of these candidates is worthy of the public's trust. So don't vote for either one of them, and don't let anyone tell you that you have to.

---

---

You are incredibly exhausting.

---

I honestly answered an honest question. If you find a discussion incredibly exhausting, then it says a hell of a lot about you than about me.

---

Right, I'm the only one that says that.

That opinion piece has 2 other contrary opinions in that issue. It is a wasted vote, and it is a binary choice. It's very narcissistic to believe otherwise.

Conservative Ag said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Conservative Ag said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Viper16 said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Gigem314 said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Gigem314 said:

---

Jorgensen voters were never going to vote for Trump anyway. So anything that takes away from Biden is a positive.

---

I told my sister that I was cancelling out her vote for Trump by voting for Jorgensen.

She didn't seem to mind.

---

Probably because she figured you'd never vote Trump but is glad Biden gets one less vote.

I have family that did the same. They didn't vote for Trump in 2016 either.

But I've gone from 3rd party to Trump. And hear from more that have done the same than sticking with 3rd party.

---

Biden never would have had a chance of getting my vote, Libertarians or not. I would have found someone else or just skipped the Presidential election on the ballot entirely.

---

Just curious........

What are you looking for in a candidate?

What is your position on border security, the economy, the current type of energy production, income tax structure to include state and local taxes, job production, foreign policy, 1st amendment protection, 2nd amendment protection, sedition committed by the highest levels of the FBI, CIA and the former Executive branch, basic rule of law........just for starters.

I truly would like to know why individuals vote Libertarian.

JMHO....no Diss intended

---

I want someone who has either solid classical liberal or solid conservative principles and who acts according to those principles.

Biden's principles appear to be rather minimal and are neither classical liberal nor conservative principles. Although Biden seems to be closer to the center in many ways, I don't believe that he is strong enough to hold his position against those much further to the left.

Trump not only has no principles, but he seems to take intentional ignorance of principles as a virtue.

By the way, the current issue of National Review has this at https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2020/11/02/trump-no/

Quote:

---

All presidents have lapses in judgment, honesty, and self-control; many of them have even been wanting, at least sometimes, in decency and public-spiritedness. Trump is alarmingly deficient in all of these qualities at once, and their lack has marked every day of his presidency.

You don't have to believe any anonymous sources in the news to see it. You need only watch the president and listen to him. On any given day, he will be calling a former member of his administration a "moron," or taking shots at one of its current members. Or live-tweeting his feelings about the cable-news shows he is watching. Or casually endorsing some nutty and slanderous theory, as when he suggested that top military leaders "want to do nothing but fight wars" to profit defense companies. Or confusing allies and opponents alike with some half-baked idea.

---

Also, in the summary of the article as to voting for a third party candidate:

Quote:

---

The voter who decides that neither Biden nor Trump deserves his support will be accused of irresponsibility, of escapism, of indulging a sense of moral purity, of wasting a vote. There is, on this view, an obligation to pick among the top two candidates. It is worth resisting this supposed imperative. If a vote that does not determine the outcome of an election is wasted, then every vote is wasted and wasted all the more if it is cast for someone the voter does not want to be president. The Biden supporters and the Trump supporters who tell you "it's a binary choice" want you to vote as though the election result were wholly in your hands. And if that scenario were not contrived enough, they implicitly add that at the same time you don't have the power to elevate a write-in candidate. You must imagine both that your power is counterfactually absolute and that you cannot choose options that are plainly before you (writing someone in, voting third party, etc.).

... The truth is that neither of these candidates is worthy of the public's trust. So don't vote for either one of them, and don't let anyone tell you that you have to.

---

---

You are incredibly exhausting.

---

I honestly answered an honest question. If you find a discussion incredibly exhausting, then it says a hell of a lot about you than about me.

---

Right, I'm the only one that says that.

That opinion piece has 2 other contrary opinions in that issue. It is a wasted vote, and it is a binary choice. It's very narcissistic to believe otherwise.

---

So if you don't vote for the winner of the election, you wasted your vote?

If Biden wins, is your vote wasted?

eric76 said:

---

Conservative Ag said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Conservative Ag said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Viper16 said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Gigem314 said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Gigem314 said:

---

Jorgensen voters were never going to vote for Trump anyway. So anything that takes away from Biden is a positive.

---

I told my sister that I was cancelling out her vote for Trump by voting for Jorgensen.

She didn't seem to mind.

---

Probably because she figured you'd never vote Trump but is glad Biden gets one less vote.

I have family that did the same. They didn't vote for Trump in 2016 either.

But I've gone from 3rd party to Trump. And hear from more that have done the same than sticking with 3rd party.

---

Biden never would have had a chance of getting my vote, Libertarians or not. I would have found someone else or just skipped the Presidential election on the ballot entirely.

---

Just curious........

What are you looking for in a candidate?

What is your position on border security, the economy, the current type of energy production, income tax structure to include state and local taxes, job production, foreign policy, 1st amendment protection, 2nd amendment protection, sedition committed by the highest levels of the FBI, CIA and the former Executive branch, basic rule of law........just for starters.

I truly would like to know why individuals vote Libertarian.

JMHO....no Diss intended

---

I want someone who has either solid classical liberal or solid conservative principles and who acts according to those principles.

Biden's principles appear to be rather minimal and are neither classical liberal nor conservative principles. Although Biden seems to be closer to the center in many ways, I don't believe that he is strong enough to hold his position against those much further to the left.

Trump not only has no principles, but he seems to take intentional ignorance of principles as a virtue.

By the way, the current issue of National Review has this at https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2020/11/02/trump-no/

Quote:

---

All presidents have lapses in judgment, honesty, and self-control; many of them have even been wanting, at least sometimes, in decency and public-spiritedness. Trump is alarmingly deficient in all of these qualities at once, and their lack has marked every day of his presidency.

You don't have to believe any anonymous sources in the news to see it. You need only watch the president and listen to him. On any given day, he will be calling a former member of his administration a "moron," or taking shots at one of its current members. Or live-tweeting his feelings about the cable-news shows he is watching. Or casually endorsing some nutty and slanderous theory, as when he suggested that top military leaders "want to do nothing but fight wars" to profit defense companies. Or confusing allies and opponents alike with some half-baked idea.

---

Also, in the summary of the article as to voting for a third party candidate:

Quote:

---

The voter who decides that neither Biden nor Trump deserves his support will be accused of irresponsibility, of escapism, of indulging a sense of moral purity, of wasting a vote. There is, on this view, an obligation to pick among the top two candidates. It is worth resisting this supposed imperative. If a vote that does not determine the outcome of an election is wasted, then every vote is wasted and wasted all the more if it is cast for someone the voter does not want to be president. The Biden supporters and the Trump supporters who tell you "it's a binary choice" want you to vote as though the election result were wholly in your hands. And if that scenario were not contrived enough, they implicitly add that at the same time you don't have the power to elevate a write-in candidate. You must imagine both that your power is counterfactually absolute and that you cannot choose options that are plainly before you (writing someone in, voting third party, etc.).

... The truth is that neither of these candidates is worthy of the public's trust. So don't vote for either one of them, and don't let anyone tell you that you have to.

---

---

You are incredibly exhausting.

---

I honestly answered an honest question. If you find a discussion incredibly exhausting, then it says a hell of a lot about you than about me.

---

Right, I'm the only one that says that.

That opinion piece has 2 other contrary opinions in that issue. It is a wasted vote, and it is a binary choice. It's very narcissistic to believe otherwise.

---

So if you don't vote for the winner of the election, you wasted your vote?

If Biden wins, is your vote wasted?

---

Not what I said, and not the same thing at all.

Conservative Ag said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Conservative Ag said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Viper16 said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Gigem314 said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Gigem314 said:

---

Jorgensen voters were never going to vote for Trump anyway. So anything that takes away from Biden is a positive.

---

I told my sister that I was cancelling out her vote for Trump by voting for Jorgensen.

She didn't seem to mind.

---

Probably because she figured you'd never vote Trump but is glad Biden gets one less vote.

I have family that did the same. They didn't vote for Trump in 2016 either.

But I've gone from 3rd party to Trump. And hear from more that have done the same than sticking with 3rd party.

---

Biden never would have had a chance of getting my vote, Libertarians or not. I would have found someone else or just skipped the Presidential election on the ballot entirely.

---

Just curious........

What are you looking for in a candidate?

What is your position on border security, the economy, the current type of energy production, income tax structure to include state and local taxes, job production, foreign policy, 1st amendment protection, 2nd amendment protection, sedition committed by the highest levels of the FBI, CIA and the former Executive branch, basic rule of law........just for starters.

I truly would like to know why individuals vote Libertarian.

JMHO....no Diss intended

---

I want someone who has either solid classical liberal or solid conservative principles and who acts according to those principles.

Biden's principles appear to be rather minimal and are neither classical liberal nor conservative principles. Although Biden seems to be closer to the center in many ways, I don't believe that he is strong enough to hold his position against those much further to the left.

Trump not only has no principles, but he seems to take intentional ignorance of principles as a virtue.

By the way, the current issue of National Review has this at https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2020/11/02/trump-no/

Quote:

---

All presidents have lapses in judgment, honesty, and self-control; many of them have even been wanting, at least sometimes, in decency and public-spiritedness. Trump is alarmingly deficient in all of these qualities at once, and their lack has marked every day of his presidency.

You don't have to believe any anonymous sources in the news to see it. You need only watch the president and listen to him. On any given day, he will be calling a former member of his administration a "moron," or taking shots at one of its current members. Or live-tweeting his feelings about the cable-news shows he is watching. Or casually endorsing some nutty and slanderous theory, as when he suggested that top military leaders "want to do nothing but fight wars" to profit defense companies. Or confusing allies and opponents alike with some half-baked idea.

---

Also, in the summary of the article as to voting for a third party candidate:

Quote:

---

The voter who decides that neither Biden nor Trump deserves his support will be accused of irresponsibility, of escapism, of indulging a sense of moral purity, of wasting a vote. There is, on this view, an obligation to pick among the top two candidates. It is worth resisting this supposed imperative. If a vote that does not determine the outcome of an election is wasted, then every vote is wasted and wasted all the more if it is cast for someone the voter does not want to be president. The Biden supporters and the Trump supporters who tell you "it's a binary choice" want you to vote as though the election result were wholly in your hands. And if that scenario were not contrived enough, they implicitly add that at the same time you don't have the power to elevate a write-in candidate. You must imagine both that your power is counterfactually absolute and that you cannot choose options that are plainly before you (writing someone in, voting third party, etc.).

... The truth is that neither of these candidates is worthy of the public's trust. So don't vote for either one of them, and don't let anyone tell you that you have to.

---

---

You are incredibly exhausting.

---

I honestly answered an honest question. If you find a discussion incredibly exhausting, then it says a hell of a lot about you than about me.

---

Right, I'm the only one that says that.

That opinion piece has 2 other contrary opinions in that issue. It is a wasted vote, and it is a binary choice. It's very narcissistic to believe otherwise.

---

voting for the candidate one thinks is best is never a wasted vote

If we learned anything from 2020 a real, purposely third party will never be allowed to exist. There will be token libertarians but never any, in enough numbers to be influential.

Voting for a libertarian for president in 2020 indicates a person is either mentally ill or just does not understand the political climate that exists. Voting libertarian means you are ok for sleepy joe to be a figure head type president and the real folks who will be shaping and influencing policy will be hidden in the shadows.

Please don't vote libertarian for president. Knock yourself out for all other races......please vote Trump for 2020.

Tanya 93 said:

---

Conservative Ag said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Conservative Ag said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Viper16 said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Gigem314 said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Gigem314 said:

---

Jorgensen voters were never going to vote for Trump anyway. So anything that takes away from Biden is a positive.

---

I told my sister that I was cancelling out her vote for Trump by voting for Jorgensen.

She didn't seem to mind.

---

Probably because she figured you'd never vote Trump but is glad Biden gets one less vote.

I have family that did the same. They didn't vote for Trump in 2016 either.

But I've gone from 3rd party to Trump. And hear from more that have done the same than sticking with 3rd party.

---

Biden never would have had a chance of getting my vote, Libertarians or not. I would have found someone else or just skipped the Presidential election on the ballot entirely.

---

Just curious........

What are you looking for in a candidate?

What is your position on border security, the economy, the current type of energy production, income tax structure to include state and local taxes, job production, foreign policy, 1st amendment protection, 2nd amendment protection, sedition committed by the highest levels of the FBI, CIA and the former Executive branch, basic rule of law........just for starters.

I truly would like to know why individuals vote Libertarian.

JMHO....no Diss intended

---

I want someone who has either solid classical liberal or solid conservative principles and who acts according to those principles.

Biden's principles appear to be rather minimal and are neither classical liberal nor conservative principles. Although Biden seems to be closer to the center in many ways, I don't believe that he is strong enough to hold his position against those much further to the left.

Trump not only has no principles, but he seems to take intentional ignorance of principles as a virtue.

By the way, the current issue of National Review has this at https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2020/11/02/trump-no/

Quote:

---

All presidents have lapses in judgment, honesty, and self-control; many of them have even been wanting, at least sometimes, in decency and public-spiritedness. Trump is alarmingly deficient in all of these qualities at once, and their lack has marked every day of his presidency.

You don't have to believe any anonymous sources in the news to see it. You need only watch the president and listen to him. On any given day, he will be calling a former member of his administration a "moron," or taking shots at one of its current members. Or live-tweeting his feelings about the cable-news shows he is watching. Or casually endorsing some nutty and slanderous theory, as when he suggested that top military leaders "want to do nothing but fight wars" to profit defense companies. Or confusing allies and opponents alike with some half-baked idea.

---

Also, in the summary of the article as to voting for a third party candidate:

Quote:

---

The voter who decides that neither Biden nor Trump deserves his support will be accused of irresponsibility, of escapism, of indulging a sense of moral purity, of wasting a vote. There is, on this view, an obligation to pick among the top two candidates. It is worth resisting this supposed imperative. If a vote that does not determine the outcome of an election is wasted, then every vote is wasted and wasted all the more if it is cast for someone the voter does not want to be president. The Biden supporters and the Trump supporters who tell you "it's a binary choice" want you to vote as though the election result were wholly in your hands. And if that scenario were not contrived enough, they implicitly add that at the same time you don't have the power to elevate a write-in candidate. You must imagine both that your power is counterfactually absolute and that you cannot choose options that are plainly before you (writing someone in, voting third party, etc.).

... The truth is that neither of these candidates is worthy of the public's trust. So don't vote for either one of them, and don't let anyone tell you that you have to.

---

---

You are incredibly exhausting.

---

I honestly answered an honest question. If you find a discussion incredibly exhausting, then it says a hell of a lot about you than about me.

---

Right, I'm the only one that says that.

That opinion piece has 2 other contrary opinions in that issue. It is a wasted vote, and it is a binary choice. It's very narcissistic to believe otherwise.

---

voting for the candidate one thinks is best is never a wasted vote

---

Just when we all thought you were rounding the turn.

Congratulations on spilling your seed in the desert. Clearly you feel relieved and should fall asleep soon.

The idea that someone should vote for Trump to hurt Biden is bull****


People should vote for who they think are best

Tanya 93 said:

---

The idea that someone should vote for Trump to hurt Biden is bull****


People should vote for who they think are best

---

Exactly.

I just recently moved to a new state. How is it a vote for Jo is a vote for Biden? Without me here there just wouldn't have been my vote at all. I hope everyone tuned into her Q&A session on CSPAN last weekend. It was glorious

deddog said:

---

Gigem314 said:

---

Jorgensen voters were never going to vote for Trump anyway. So anything that takes away from Biden is a positive.

---

I am libertarian and voted for Johnson last time.
I voted for Trump yesterday.

I trust there are many like me.

Letting a democrat win is the opposite of libertarianism. Classic liberalism is dead
What's left are the fascists.

---

Somewhat like you, I voted for Johnson in '16. I can't stand Trump's personality nor his inability to form a complete, coherent sentence.

I actually have not voted for an incumbent in over 15 years because I believe the biggest problem we have within our political system not D's or R's, but career politicians.

However, I broke that rule this year and cast a vote for Trump. Not because I've changed my opinion on him much, but because the left and in particular the media has gone completely rouge. I can't count the times I have watched him speak and then seen the media summation of his words be completely different from what he said. Just blatant lying.

So congrats Libs, you gave Trump a vote he may not have earned.

I'd be happy with a first term Grover Cleveland type president. Veto everything because federal government should be as limited as possible, leave 99% of the issues up to the states. The only problem is the Libertarian's are a circus act. I've tried to delve into their communities to see if it's a better alternative to the Republican party and I always end up being attacked by a mob that claim the "Libertarian" title, but are really closet Anarchists. They don't really understand civics or government in general, only that they want less of it. There is no middle with the Libertarian "party", only extreme views. As long as that is the norm with them, they will never gain any real traction which is why I believe voting for them right now is a waste of a vote.

C@LAg said:

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law-apt-3g said:

---

Nothing accomplished, nothing gained...actually a futile, senseless gesture.

---

well, he DID get 15 blue stars for his effort.

---

Just proves there is no limit to stupidity! Always more sheep in the flock.

96ags said:

---

deddog said:

---

Gigem314 said:

---

Jorgensen voters were never going to vote for Trump anyway. So anything that takes away from Biden is a positive.

---

I am libertarian and voted for Johnson last time.
I voted for Trump yesterday.

I trust there are many like me.

Letting a democrat win is the opposite of libertarianism. Classic liberalism is dead
What's left are the fascists.

---

Somewhat like you, I voted for Johnson in '16. I can't stand Trump's personality nor his inability to form a complete, coherent sentence.

I actually have not voted for an incumbent in over 15 years because I believe the biggest problem we have within our political system not D's or R's, but career politicians.

However, I broke that rule this year and cast a vote for Trump. Not because I've changed my opinion on him much, but because the left and in particular the media has gone completely rouge. I can't count the times I have watched him speak and then seen the media summation of his words be completely different from what he said. Just blatant lying.

So congrats Libs, you gave Trump a vote he may not have earned.

---

Why is that a vote for Biden?

Sad that the general response here is to further entrench the two party system.

We would be better off if we had more parties.

waitwhat? said:

---

Sad that the general response here is to further entrench the two party system.

We would be better off if we had more parties.

---

Of course we would be better off with two parties but that is nowhere near close to happening, so why waste a vote on a 3rd party candidate?

Are you out of your mind...If you're an actual libertarian why would you vote for Jorgensen, she's a leftist.

Jbob04 said:

---

waitwhat? said:

---

Sad that the general response here is to further entrench the two party system.

We would be better off if we had more parties.

---

Of course we would be better off with two parties but that is nowhere near close to happening, so why waste a vote on a 3rd party candidate?

---

There is literally no chance of getting more than two parties without enough people voting 3rd party to make it viable. The democrats and republicans respond by putting up such awful candidates that they successfully force us to keep voting for the two major parties.

It's not a good thing to laugh at or mock. We're being played and there are numerous posters on this thread just giddy at the idea of it.

Jbob04 said:

---

waitwhat? said:

---

Sad that the general response here is to further entrench the two party system.

We would be better off if we had more parties.

---

Of course we would be better off with two parties but that is nowhere near close to happening, so why waste a vote on a 3rd party candidate?

---

Chicken/Egg. It will never happen (or even trend that direction) as long as people only consider the two major parties options. Even though I have libertarian leanings, I would never vote for Jo. She and the Big L libertarians and I are still very far apart on many issues.

I don't however get the overwhelming pushback on here if someone actually voted for the candidate they feel is best. I'll vote Trump (reluctantly) because even though I vehemently disagree with him on a lot of things, he's the best of any candidate, short of writing someone in.

Roster4Ag said:

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Are you out of your mind...If you're an actual libertarian why would you vote for Jorgensen, she's a leftist.

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This is generally my take about Jo, the Libertarian "party" is a mess. I don't fault anyone for voting third party if they believe they're the best candidate, but I still can't grasp my idea of Libertarianism and her being the nominee.

3rd party politics won't lead to any measurable change. In Europe they have many parties that split up parliament, what ends up happening is a coalition govt is formed and gridlock is still rife because policies need the assent of many different factions. Our system might stifle outsiders, but it actually works better in practice than the European system.

Tanya 93 said:

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96ags said:

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deddog said:

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Gigem314 said:

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Jorgensen voters were never going to vote for Trump anyway. So anything that takes away from Biden is a positive.

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I am libertarian and voted for Johnson last time.
I voted for Trump yesterday.

I trust there are many like me.

Letting a democrat win is the opposite of libertarianism. Classic liberalism is dead
What's left are the fascists.

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Somewhat like you, I voted for Johnson in '16. I can't stand Trump's personality nor his inability to form a complete, coherent sentence.

I actually have not voted for an incumbent in over 15 years because I believe the biggest problem we have within our political system not D's or R's, but career politicians.

However, I broke that rule this year and cast a vote for Trump. Not because I've changed my opinion on him much, but because the left and in particular the media has gone completely rouge. I can't count the times I have watched him speak and then seen the media summation of his words be completely different from what he said. Just blatant lying.

So congrats Libs, you gave Trump a vote he may not have earned.

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Why is that a vote for Biden?

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What?

There is no need to bash on Libertarians or Independent voters not voting for Trump if they are also not voting for Biden.

With one KEY exception:

They must not have an opinion on socialism vs capitalism, because this is a true binary election, and that is on the ballot. There is no middle position. One side wants socialism, the other side is willing to oppose it, in fact, he says "never will be" emphatically.

So you cannot not vote for Trump if you oppose socialism, period. The same goes for --if you are for capitalism, you cannot vote for Biden. The rich like the Lincoln Project that do are because they are already rich; dismantling capitalism won't hurt them (at least not in marxism's first phase).

So one thing anyone in the middle should consider is their stance on socialism vs capitalism. Never mind that the socialism is actually pretty close to open Marxism; just admitting its central govt planning socialism is objectively true enough vs more of 2017-2019 and where were headed.

Simple.

If you have an opinion on that, you don't even have to consult your feelings.

waitwhat? said:

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Sad that the general response here is to further entrench the two party system.

We would be better off if we had more parties.

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Truer words were never spoken.

Roster4Ag said:

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Are you out of your mind...If you're an actual libertarian why would you vote for Jorgensen, she's a leftist.

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I was voting less for Jorgensen and more for the idea that a viable 3rd party would make the 2 big parties better - more responsive. Better at actual governance versus just enriching themselves and their surrogates. More actual solutions versus pointing the finger across the aisle and saying, "but look how bad they are!"

A viable 3rd party might force the Republicans to actually practice what they preach re: fiscal conservatism. And that would be a Republican party I could support.

A viable 3rd party might force the Democrats to stop flirting with Socialism. And that would make for a much healthier country.

My decision to vote 3rd party might seem idealistic. And I agree - it is. But I disagree that a 3rd party vote is hopeless - because I'm filled with hope that eventually, if I keep voting and talking and selling the idea, that we will have a viable 3rd party and a healthier country for it.

johnnyblaze36 said:

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Tanya 93 said:

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Conservative Ag said:

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eric76 said:

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Conservative Ag said:

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eric76 said:

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Viper16 said:

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eric76 said:

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Gigem314 said:

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eric76 said:

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Gigem314 said:

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Jorgensen voters were never going to vote for Trump anyway. So anything that takes away from Biden is a positive.

---

I told my sister that I was cancelling out her vote for Trump by voting for Jorgensen.

She didn't seem to mind.

---

Probably because she figured you'd never vote Trump but is glad Biden gets one less vote.

I have family that did the same. They didn't vote for Trump in 2016 either.

But I've gone from 3rd party to Trump. And hear from more that have done the same than sticking with 3rd party.

---

Biden never would have had a chance of getting my vote, Libertarians or not. I would have found someone else or just skipped the Presidential election on the ballot entirely.

---

Just curious........

What are you looking for in a candidate?

What is your position on border security, the economy, the current type of energy production, income tax structure to include state and local taxes, job production, foreign policy, 1st amendment protection, 2nd amendment protection, sedition committed by the highest levels of the FBI, CIA and the former Executive branch, basic rule of law........just for starters.

I truly would like to know why individuals vote Libertarian.

JMHO....no Diss intended

---

I want someone who has either solid classical liberal or solid conservative principles and who acts according to those principles.

Biden's principles appear to be rather minimal and are neither classical liberal nor conservative principles. Although Biden seems to be closer to the center in many ways, I don't believe that he is strong enough to hold his position against those much further to the left.

Trump not only has no principles, but he seems to take intentional ignorance of principles as a virtue.

By the way, the current issue of National Review has this at https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2020/11/02/trump-no/

Quote:

---

All presidents have lapses in judgment, honesty, and self-control; many of them have even been wanting, at least sometimes, in decency and public-spiritedness. Trump is alarmingly deficient in all of these qualities at once, and their lack has marked every day of his presidency.

You don't have to believe any anonymous sources in the news to see it. You need only watch the president and listen to him. On any given day, he will be calling a former member of his administration a "moron," or taking shots at one of its current members. Or live-tweeting his feelings about the cable-news shows he is watching. Or casually endorsing some nutty and slanderous theory, as when he suggested that top military leaders "want to do nothing but fight wars" to profit defense companies. Or confusing allies and opponents alike with some half-baked idea.

---

Also, in the summary of the article as to voting for a third party candidate:

Quote:

---

The voter who decides that neither Biden nor Trump deserves his support will be accused of irresponsibility, of escapism, of indulging a sense of moral purity, of wasting a vote. There is, on this view, an obligation to pick among the top two candidates. It is worth resisting this supposed imperative. If a vote that does not determine the outcome of an election is wasted, then every vote is wasted and wasted all the more if it is cast for someone the voter does not want to be president. The Biden supporters and the Trump supporters who tell you "it's a binary choice" want you to vote as though the election result were wholly in your hands. And if that scenario were not contrived enough, they implicitly add that at the same time you don't have the power to elevate a write-in candidate. You must imagine both that your power is counterfactually absolute and that you cannot choose options that are plainly before you (writing someone in, voting third party, etc.).

... The truth is that neither of these candidates is worthy of the public's trust. So don't vote for either one of them, and don't let anyone tell you that you have to.

---

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You are incredibly exhausting.

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I honestly answered an honest question. If you find a discussion incredibly exhausting, then it says a hell of a lot about you than about me.

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Right, I'm the only one that says that.

That opinion piece has 2 other contrary opinions in that issue. It is a wasted vote, and it is a binary choice. It's very narcissistic to believe otherwise.

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voting for the candidate one thinks is best is never a wasted vote

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Just when we all thought you were rounding the turn.

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They never change their spots

RDV-1992 said:

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Roster4Ag said:

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Are you out of your mind...If you're an actual libertarian why would you vote for Jorgensen, she's a leftist.

---

I was voting less for Jorgensen and more for the idea that a viable 3rd party would make the 2 big parties better - more responsive. Better at actual governance versus just enriching themselves and their surrogates. More actual solutions versus pointing the finger across the aisle and saying, "but look how bad they are!"

A viable 3rd party might force the Republicans to actually practice what they preach re: fiscal conservatism. And that would be a Republican party I could support.

A viable 3rd party might force the Democrats to stop flirting with Socialism. And that would make for a much healthier country.

My decision to vote 3rd party might seem idealistic. And I agree - it is. But I disagree that a 3rd party vote is hopeless - because I'm filled with hope that eventually, if I keep voting and talking and selling the idea, that we will have a viable 3rd party and a healthier country for it.

---

It won't ever happen until a "viable" 3rd party makes a real effort to get elected at all levels of government. As it stands, for the POTUS election, the "viable" 3rd party And make more effort. Bet if you asked 1,000 people who her running mate is, only a couple of people would know.

If the republicans had a decent candidate I'd vote republican, but when they don't, I vote libertarian.

THE_CHOSEN_ONE said:

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If the republicans had a decent candidate I'd vote republican, but when they don't, I vote libertarian.

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That used to be okay. Trump does suck. Biden could mean the end of the Republic as we have known it. Compared to that I'll put up with a little suckage. If you cant see that you are terribly misinformed or cant critically think your way out of a wet paper bag.

When/if things get back to some degree of normalcy please go back to throwing your vote away.

eric76 said:

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Viper16 said:

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eric76 said:

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Gigem314 said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Gigem314 said:

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Jorgensen voters were never going to vote for Trump anyway. So anything that takes away from Biden is a positive.

---

I told my sister that I was cancelling out her vote for Trump by voting for Jorgensen.

She didn't seem to mind.

---

Probably because she figured you'd never vote Trump but is glad Biden gets one less vote.

I have family that did the same. They didn't vote for Trump in 2016 either.

But I've gone from 3rd party to Trump. And hear from more that have done the same than sticking with 3rd party.

---

Biden never would have had a chance of getting my vote, Libertarians or not. I would have found someone else or just skipped the Presidential election on the ballot entirely.

---

Just curious........

What are you looking for in a candidate?

What is your position on border security, the economy, the current type of energy production, income tax structure to include state and local taxes, job production, foreign policy, 1st amendment protection, 2nd amendment protection, sedition committed by the highest levels of the FBI, CIA and the former Executive branch, basic rule of law........just for starters.

I truly would like to know why individuals vote Libertarian.

JMHO....no Diss intended

---

I want someone who has either solid classical liberal or solid conservative principles and who acts according to those principles.

Biden's principles appear to be rather minimal and are neither classical liberal nor conservative principles. Although Biden seems to be closer to the center in many ways, I don't believe that he is strong enough to hold his position against those much further to the left.

Trump not only has no principles, but he seems to take intentional ignorance of principles as a virtue.

By the way, the current issue of National Review has this at https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2020/11/02/trump-no/

Quote:

---

All presidents have lapses in judgment, honesty, and self-control; many of them have even been wanting, at least sometimes, in decency and public-spiritedness. Trump is alarmingly deficient in all of these qualities at once, and their lack has marked every day of his presidency.

You don't have to believe any anonymous sources in the news to see it. You need only watch the president and listen to him. On any given day, he will be calling a former member of his administration a "moron," or taking shots at one of its current members. Or live-tweeting his feelings about the cable-news shows he is watching. Or casually endorsing some nutty and slanderous theory, as when he suggested that top military leaders "want to do nothing but fight wars" to profit defense companies. Or confusing allies and opponents alike with some half-baked idea.

---

Also, in the summary of the article as to voting for a third party candidate:

Quote:

---

The voter who decides that neither Biden nor Trump deserves his support will be accused of irresponsibility, of escapism, of indulging a sense of moral purity, of wasting a vote. There is, on this view, an obligation to pick among the top two candidates. It is worth resisting this supposed imperative. If a vote that does not determine the outcome of an election is wasted, then every vote is wasted and wasted all the more if it is cast for someone the voter does not want to be president. The Biden supporters and the Trump supporters who tell you "it's a binary choice" want you to vote as though the election result were wholly in your hands. And if that scenario were not contrived enough, they implicitly add that at the same time you don't have the power to elevate a write-in candidate. You must imagine both that your power is counterfactually absolute and that you cannot choose options that are plainly before you (writing someone in, voting third party, etc.).

... The truth is that neither of these candidates is worthy of the public's trust. So don't vote for either one of them, and don't let anyone tell you that you have to.

---

---

"I want someone who has either solid classical liberal or solid conservative principles."

Interesting comment......Those 2 principles are generally in complete opposition to each other. So, if you have 2 candidates that meet your criteria in a general election, you vote for ....??????


"What is your position on border security, the economy, the current type of energy production, income tax structure to include state and local taxes, job production, foreign policy, 1st amendment protection, 2nd amendment protection, sedition committed by the highest levels of the FBI, CIA and the former Executive branch, basic rule of law........just for starters."

Still curious about these positions and how they fit into your criteria of a Presidential Candidate as mentioned above.


Again, just asking.......I really don't care if you vote or sit out. Your choice for sure.

No disrespect intended.

Viper16 said:

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eric76 said:

---

Viper16 said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Gigem314 said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Gigem314 said:

---

Jorgensen voters were never going to vote for Trump anyway. So anything that takes away from Biden is a positive.

---

I told my sister that I was cancelling out her vote for Trump by voting for Jorgensen.

She didn't seem to mind.

---

Probably because she figured you'd never vote Trump but is glad Biden gets one less vote.

I have family that did the same. They didn't vote for Trump in 2016 either.

But I've gone from 3rd party to Trump. And hear from more that have done the same than sticking with 3rd party.

---

Biden never would have had a chance of getting my vote, Libertarians or not. I would have found someone else or just skipped the Presidential election on the ballot entirely.

---

Just curious........

What are you looking for in a candidate?

What is your position on border security, the economy, the current type of energy production, income tax structure to include state and local taxes, job production, foreign policy, 1st amendment protection, 2nd amendment protection, sedition committed by the highest levels of the FBI, CIA and the former Executive branch, basic rule of law........just for starters.

I truly would like to know why individuals vote Libertarian.

JMHO....no Diss intended

---

I want someone who has either solid classical liberal or solid conservative principles and who acts according to those principles.

Biden's principles appear to be rather minimal and are neither classical liberal nor conservative principles. Although Biden seems to be closer to the center in many ways, I don't believe that he is strong enough to hold his position against those much further to the left.

Trump not only has no principles, but he seems to take intentional ignorance of principles as a virtue.

By the way, the current issue of National Review has this at https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2020/11/02/trump-no/

Quote:

---

All presidents have lapses in judgment, honesty, and self-control; many of them have even been wanting, at least sometimes, in decency and public-spiritedness. Trump is alarmingly deficient in all of these qualities at once, and their lack has marked every day of his presidency.

You don't have to believe any anonymous sources in the news to see it. You need only watch the president and listen to him. On any given day, he will be calling a former member of his administration a "moron," or taking shots at one of its current members. Or live-tweeting his feelings about the cable-news shows he is watching. Or casually endorsing some nutty and slanderous theory, as when he suggested that top military leaders "want to do nothing but fight wars" to profit defense companies. Or confusing allies and opponents alike with some half-baked idea.

---

Also, in the summary of the article as to voting for a third party candidate:

Quote:

---

The voter who decides that neither Biden nor Trump deserves his support will be accused of irresponsibility, of escapism, of indulging a sense of moral purity, of wasting a vote. There is, on this view, an obligation to pick among the top two candidates. It is worth resisting this supposed imperative. If a vote that does not determine the outcome of an election is wasted, then every vote is wasted and wasted all the more if it is cast for someone the voter does not want to be president. The Biden supporters and the Trump supporters who tell you "it's a binary choice" want you to vote as though the election result were wholly in your hands. And if that scenario were not contrived enough, they implicitly add that at the same time you don't have the power to elevate a write-in candidate. You must imagine both that your power is counterfactually absolute and that you cannot choose options that are plainly before you (writing someone in, voting third party, etc.).

... The truth is that neither of these candidates is worthy of the public's trust. So don't vote for either one of them, and don't let anyone tell you that you have to.

---

---

"I want someone who has either solid classical liberal or solid conservative principles."

Interesting comment......Those 2 principles are generally in complete opposition to each other. So, if you have 2 candidates that meet your criteria in a general election, you vote for ....??????


"What is your position on border security, the economy, the current type of energy production, income tax structure to include state and local taxes, job production, foreign policy, 1st amendment protection, 2nd amendment protection, sedition committed by the highest levels of the FBI, CIA and the former Executive branch, basic rule of law........just for starters."

Still curious about these positions and how they fit into your criteria of a Presidential Candidate as mentioned above.


Again, just asking.......I really don't care if you vote or sit out. Your choice for sure.

No disrespect intended.

---

"Classical liberal" is not in opposition to conservatism. They're ideological siblings.

Agreed.