fka ftc said:

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I struggle with why they went with the pad setup the way they did. Is it possible part of the purpose is to see how it did without out the water deluge and other diversion methods?

May have already been discussed. From the Dodge Caravan, I assume that was a piece of the launch pad.

Interesting.

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The pad had no diverter or water deluge because Elon wanted it that way.

There's several Twitter posts above from Elon stating they thought it would survive a single test, but are already building a diversion system.

The logic behind wanting quick/simple/modular launch pads is understandable, especially when you throw in the desire to launch at sea as well as land, but they're obviously going to have to do more than what they've done. We will see the OLM damaged several more times before they get the cheap/simple/reliable balance down

Elon didn't want to wait. That's why they did it. Not because they thought it would survive.

Don't think SpaceX will ever be sea launching super heavy.

Next test flight is probably 6 months away. They have a lot to figure out.
Launch pad.
Multiple engine failures.
Stage separation failure.

If you have an Occulus VR get this. I heard about it from the Cosmic Perspective people on the Everyday Astronauts live stream. They did a fantastic job with this and they're gonna add this week's launch soon.

Get the free trial and watch the 5 minute VR video of different launches and the booster and various starships rolling down highway 4 in Boca Chica. Great way to understand the scale of things out there. Super cool tech.

https://www.oculus.com/experiences/quest/4722557424512381/

bmks270 said:

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Next test flight is probably 6 months away. They have a lot to figure out.
Launch pad.
Multiple engine failures.
Stage separation failure.

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Their stage separator on the next rocket isn't even in the same ballpark as this one. Completely different tech. Tell me you haven't been following without telling us you haven't been following.

I don't think we can say they had any issues with stage separation. They never got there. They would have had to reach MECO first and never did. The main engines were burning all the way to the FTS trigger. The spiraling most likely had to do with the fact that one of the Hydraulic Power Units exploded 30 seconds into the flight, likely disabling some of the inner engine gimballing. If the telemetry on the SpaceX stream was correct about the propellant tank levels, they were seconds away from running out of liquid oxygen in the booster and it started falling due to lost velocity due to drifting sideways for a while and spiraling.

I think the HPU issue goes away since there aren't any on later iterations of the booster. The engine outs seemed like they could have been cascading failures and the first disabled engines likely have to do with the eviserated concrete under the pad striking some engines prior to lift off leaving them marked to melt or disabling them entirely.

I am just spitballing like everyone else, but I think if they address the issues with the pad including deluge system along with exhaust damage mitigation such as a flame diverter or cooled steel plate, they will solve most of the observed problems.

I look forward to attending that launch as well, this one was like something straight out of a video game.

Great insights.
So did the thrust vectoring hydraulic lines lose pressure, is that known to be true or just speculation?
I think I saw somewhere that future vector control may be driven by electric motors?

Scott Manley posted a new short today about what happened with the flight termination system. It looks like they initiated it about 50 seconds before the rocket actually exploded. The termination system is designed to punch holes in the tanks to cause a catastrophic change in pressure and mixing of fuels. You can see the white puffs of compressed gas shooting out of the side of the rocket in sequence. That's when it was triggered. It just took a long time to create an explosion.

They bought two oil rigs for that stated purpose...

And didn't they sell them?

They did.

bmks270 said:

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Great insights.
So did the thrust vectoring hydraulic lines lose pressure, is that known to be true or just speculation?
I think I saw somewhere that future vector control may be driven by electric motors?

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Booster 7 (RUDed) was the last version to have hydraulic vectoring. Next Booster in the High Bay is already electrically vectored.

Ag_of_08 said:

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They bought two oil rigs for that stated purpose...

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Oil platforms won't be stable being hit with millions of pounds of thrust.

Not a Bot said:

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Scott Manley posted a new short today about what happened with the flight termination system. It looks like they initiated it about 50 seconds before the rocket actually exploded. The termination system is designed to punch holes in the tanks to cause a catastrophic change in pressure and mixing of fuels. You can see the white puffs of compressed gas shooting out of the side of the rocket in sequence. That's when it was triggered. It just took a long time to create an explosion.

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That's interesting.

I think if the turbo pumps suck in bubbles it's kaboom! The tumbling of the rocket was quite impressive.

bmks270 said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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They bought two oil rigs for that stated purpose...

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Oil platforms won't be stable being hit with millions of pounds of thrust.

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First, how much of the thrust would actually hit the oil rig, vs the water below, and second, these rigs can also actually extend 'feet' to the sea floor I think (or at least some can) to make them pretty darn stable. Some are also 'gravity base structures' with a huge amount of ballast down pretty deep (concrete) giving a pretty massive amount of stability.

Very curious to see what the spacex guys wind up doing/procuring just from a 'wow' perspective.

Malachi Constant said:

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December 21st 2015 was the first time SpaceX landed the F9 booster successfully.

Nearly 2700 days have gone by since then and no one has replicated it. That's a lot longer than most expected 7.5 years ago.

I suspect it will be a full decade before anyone else can do it.

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Is musk the brains behind this or did he hire great engineers?

Musk brain and musk brains tolerable talent underneath.

Per TM article, Musk does not suffer fools lightly. I think anyone that has watched interviews or followed him at all sees that.

Performance reflects leadership. See Biden Admin for exact opposite.

There are several different types of platforms meant to operate at many depths. Not sure what kind they purchased.

The two they bought they wound up just selling off.

I know I already mentioned that, im just curious what type they were.

joerobert_pete06 said:

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Malachi Constant said:

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December 21st 2015 was the first time SpaceX landed the F9 booster successfully.

Nearly 2700 days have gone by since then and no one has replicated it. That's a lot longer than most expected 7.5 years ago.

I suspect it will be a full decade before anyone else can do it.

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Is musk the brains behind this or did he hire great engineers?

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Watch this video from 5:30 - 7:40

bmks270 said:

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Great insights.
So did the thrust vectoring hydraulic lines lose pressure, is that known to be true or just speculation?
I think I saw somewhere that future vector control may be driven by electric motors?

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I am sure the team analyzing the test flight will likely have hydraulic pressure data. It is not publicly known and we may never be told. But some tracking camera angles show that Hydraulic Power Unit bursting into stainless steel confetti. If you look at Booster 7's aft exterior, the HPUs are the two protrusions on each side of the aft section that have a boxy faring with the two black dots of them.

The booster seems to start tumbling off course within seconds of losing this HPU. That's what gives me this impression.

There are a lot of well educated observers who posit that the integrated Starship is aerodynamically unstable with the fins being so far forward on the stack. This makes sense because it seems as though the center of drag is further forward on the stack then the center of mass. However I question this notion because while this may be true on the pad and just after liftoff, the point in flight where this is of greatest concern is a point where the booster propellant tanks are more depleted which would bring the center of mass farther forward and could potentially be at or ahead of the center of drag. But I am not certain of this. Nevertheless, there are a large number of successful aircraft that are aerodynamically unstable that still fly with no issues due to sophisticated control systems. But good rocketry is managing probabilities and perhaps we may see the addition of some of some type of additional fins, chines, or strakes on the aft of the boosters to help here.

I'm looking forward to how SpaceX responds with future iterations nonetheless.

Great video, thanks for sharing

In Everyday Astronaut's stunning 8k video, it was observed that the six Raptors which failed were completely devoid of their nozzles. pic.twitter.com/QeVnKdp9oK

— Ezer (@EzerRatchaga) April 23, 2023

will25u said:

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In Everyday Astronaut's stunning 8k video, it was observed that the six Raptors which failed were completely devoid of their nozzles. pic.twitter.com/QeVnKdp9oK

— Ezer (@EzerRatchaga) April 23, 2023

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W...O...W...
I think that lends credence to the damaged by flying concrete theory!

Here's a survey of the damage from WhatAboutIt


Stage Zero looks like it's been left to the elements for 80 years

bmks270 said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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They bought two oil rigs for that stated purpose...

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Oil platforms won't be stable being hit with millions of pounds of thrust.

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I work a drill ship in GOM that can handle 3 million pounds of casing

Looking at these photos and that video I'm very happy the entire thing didn't collapse prior to liftoff. I suspect there is going to be a lot of work to do on S0, up to and including a complete rebuilding.

Also just zooming into the first picture, look at the damage on those tanks!

They are lucky the whole thing didn't RUD right on the pad. That concrete was destructive.

Elon will keep building it bigger and better

TexAgs91 said:

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Here's a survey of the damage from WhatAboutIt


Stage Zero looks like it's been left to the elements for 80 years

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All in a days work.

That is impressive. It's safe to say that they underestimated the destructive power of that thing.