What a new American Civil War would look like

I've always considered another American Civil War as not at all likely.

Given our current state of affairs, I'm beginning to believe otherwise. My faith in patriots in positions of power has disappeared. I see that there are people at all levels of government who really do seem to want to end our current form of government to replace with something they see as more "egalitarian".

I also believe that most Americans also don't see it as possible and trust the few "grown ups" in government to have at least a "bend but don't break" attitude about "revolution".

The biggest difference I see in the US now and the historical examples given, is that there is a much greater percentage of armed citizens than there were in any of the examples.

However, if there are people in leadership positions of the military who are sympathetic to the leftist cause, a well-armed citizenry may not be able to stop them.

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I do not wish to be alarmist. But what I describe here is a plausible scenario. And have no doubt, our nation's enemies are resolute and determined. The continued existence of our great country, the United States of America, will depend on the bravery, strength, resourcefulness, and patriotism of her most loyal citizens. We must stand prepared for all possible threats.

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I've never really figured out the dynamics and conditions that cause folks to finally rebel. Is it even a common denominator? Is it finally when all hope is lost, financially, etc.. It seems our founders rebeled a lot sooner than that.

The USSR fell apart, which I never believed would happen, and im hoping we do the same at some point and split this thing up.

Maybe other than the Left Coast, there is no well-defined geographic dividing line like the Mason-Dixon. It's more like an urban-suburban divide.

For a "Civil War" to happen doesn't it need to be a group of people rising above and fighting against their country's government/military?

HoustonAg2106 said:

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For a "Civil War" to happen doesn't it need to be a group of people rising above and fighting against their country's government/military?

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Rwanda says hi. question is, will conservatives be the hutus or the tutsis?

Plausible? ehhh maybe sorta...maybe worth considering.

I agree though that foreign interests are having a popcorn party watching the left mount an insurrection. And such should be soberly considered.

Sid Farkas said:

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HoustonAg2106 said:

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For a "Civil War" to happen doesn't it need to be a group of people rising above and fighting against their country's government/military?

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Rwanda says hi. question is, will conservatives be the hutus or the tutsis?

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Kind of silly to compare Rwanda to a country like the United States

HoustonAg2106 said:

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Sid Farkas said:

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HoustonAg2106 said:

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For a "Civil War" to happen doesn't it need to be a group of people rising above and fighting against their country's government/military?

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Rwanda says hi. question is, will conservatives be the hutus or the tutsis?

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Kind of silly to compare Rwanda to a country like the United States

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How else will he scare people?

HoustonAg2106 said:

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Sid Farkas said:

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HoustonAg2106 said:

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For a "Civil War" to happen doesn't it need to be a group of people rising above and fighting against their country's government/military?

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Rwanda says hi. question is, will conservatives be the hutus or the tutsis?

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Kind of silly to compare Rwanda to a country like the United States

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an assertion like that is usually followed by a supporting argument. cant you do better than that?

the liberals on this board are going for quantity not quality on their posts. i'll come back and read some of y'alls stuff if my insomnia ever comes back.../yawn

HoustonAg2106 said:

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For a "Civil War" to happen doesn't it need to be a group of people rising above and fighting against their country's government/military?

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No. That's a revolution.

Civil war has the same base as civics and civilian and really means people versus people within a country. Like if Democrats and Republicans went to war. It does not require geographical lines.

The war that gave Caesar power is a good example. And a good example today would be that if something happened Election Day and none of the sides agreed with the results, and war broke out. You'd have proponents of Biden in one camp and proponents of Trump in another and probably a smattering of other factions wanting to take advantage of the chaos (Bernie Bros). Now imagine that it was settled in the streets by the people with each leader having some control over the military. That's civil war. That's neighbor killing neighbor, brother killing brother, and one side wouldn't quit until their leader was dead or surrendered.

In general I find most of the Civil War scenarios on here highly unlikely. Most people are content with their lives and don't want to tear down the country to replace the government, even if they deeply dislike said government. The most vocal groups that advocate for violence, Antifa and some black separatist movements on the left and the militia movements on the right, don't have anywhere near enough supporters to do anything significant. Those groups alone won't start a war.

The only scenario I could see as remotely plausible would come out of a disputed election. Let's say Trump loses, claims that the election was invalid due to fraud and refused to leave office. Or on the other side let's say Trump wins but Democrats claim the election is invalid due to government interference. In both of these situations I think it would be very possible to get out of hand pretty quickly. The last time we had a disputed election was in 2000. Gore eventually conceded after the Supreme Court decision. What happens if the other candidate doesn't concede? I could see a situation where different states recognize their preferred candidate as the legitimate president.

If there ever is another civil war there likely won't be just two sides. You'd have other factions such as socialists or those fighting for a more right wing authoritarian style of government as well. I'd also expect China, Russia, and the EU to be heavily involved, including the possibility of sending troops to help support their preferred factions.

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In similar fashion, I believe one likely spark for the Second American Civil War will be the result of a coup d'etat carried out by anti-America extremists. It will catch most Americans by surprise. The coup plotters will act quickly to seize the critical levers of power, before any opposition has a chance to react. And they will be aided and abetted by the kinds of people Lenin referred to, contemptuously, as useful idiots.

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Totally lost his credibility when he casually skipped over that small detail of a coup d'etat..

Dad-O-Lot said:

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What a new American Civil War would look like

I've always considered another American Civil War as not at all likely.

Given our current state of affairs, I'm beginning to believe otherwise. My faith in patriots in positions of power has disappeared. I see that there are people at all levels of government who really do seem to want to end our current form of government to replace with something they see as more "egalitarian".

I also believe that most Americans also don't see it as possible and trust the few "grown ups" in government to have at least a "bend but don't break" attitude about "revolution".

The biggest difference I see in the US now and the historical examples given, is that there is a much greater percentage of armed citizens than there were in any of the examples.

However, if there are people in leadership positions of the military who are sympathetic to the leftist cause, a well-armed citizenry may not be able to stop them.

Quote:

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I do not wish to be alarmist. But what I describe here is a plausible scenario. And have no doubt, our nation's enemies are resolute and determined. The continued existence of our great country, the United States of America, will depend on the bravery, strength, resourcefulness, and patriotism of her most loyal citizens. We must stand prepared for all possible threats.

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You have the protagonists in the theoretical war having the majority of weapons and the antagonists are limp-wristed, latte' drinking pantywaists. An anti-fa vs everybody else "war" will end in minutes.

AgStuckinLBK said:

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HoustonAg2106 said:

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For a "Civil War" to happen doesn't it need to be a group of people rising above and fighting against their country's government/military?

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No. That's a revolution.

Civil war has the same base as civics and civilian and really means people versus people within a country. Like if Democrats and Republicans went to war. It does not require geographical lines.

The war that gave Caesar power is a good example. And a good example today would be that if something happened Election Day and none of the sides agreed with the results, and war broke out. You'd have proponents of Biden in one camp and proponents of Trump in another and probably a smattering of other factions wanting to take advantage of the chaos (Bernie Bros). Now imagine that it was settled in the streets by the people with each leader having some control over the military. That's civil war. That's neighbor killing neighbor, brother killing brother, and one side wouldn't quit until their leader was dead or surrendered.

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Ok well that's actually a good explanation, but also makes a Civil War in this country seem even more unrealistic than I was thinking before

Personally, like most Americans, I'm too busy going to work and providing for a family to get involved in something like that

Frankly, I think it could be argued that we are already in a sort of "civil war" with the rioters in several cities attacking government buildings and different government organizations either fighting, ignoring, or tacitly supporting these attacks.

We've had groups of citizens already deem some area they have taken over as some level of "sovereign".

I'm afraid it wouldn't take much more to tip the scales.

Dad-O-Lot said:

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Frankly, I think it could be argued that we are already in a sort of "civil war" with the rioters in several cities attacking government buildings and different government organizations either fighting, ignoring, or tacitly supporting these attacks.

We've had groups of citizens already deem some area they have taken over as some level of "sovereign".

I'm afraid it wouldn't take much more to tip the scales.

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We definitely are in an ideological CW.

Dad-O-Lot said:

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Frankly, I think it could be argued that we are already in a sort of "civil war" with the rioters in several cities attacking government buildings and different government organizations either fighting, ignoring, or tacitly supporting these attacks.

We've had groups of citizens already deem some area they have taken over as some level of "sovereign".

I'm afraid it wouldn't take much more to tip the scales.

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Everything you've written has been taking place for years and years before the black people started doing this. Didn't seem to bother anyone all that much on here.

Smokedraw01 said:

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Dad-O-Lot said:

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Frankly, I think it could be argued that we are already in a sort of "civil war" with the rioters in several cities attacking government buildings and different government organizations either fighting, ignoring, or tacitly supporting these attacks.

We've had groups of citizens already deem some area they have taken over as some level of "sovereign".

I'm afraid it wouldn't take much more to tip the scales.

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Everything you've written has been taking place for years and years before the black people started doing this. Didn't seem to bother anyone all that much on here.

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I must have missed it.

Can you point to the articles that are at the level of what has been happening in Seattle, Portland, and Minneapolis; including the elected government officials who have supported them?

This isn't just run of the mill protesting, or passing one or two day riots; this is over 40 days of continued assault.

This is no longer just a "Black Lives Matter" issue, but a full-blown attack on our federal and local governments by marxists.

If it's like political discourse I imagine it would be more of an Uncivil War.

Dad-O-Lot said:

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Smokedraw01 said:

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Dad-O-Lot said:

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Frankly, I think it could be argued that we are already in a sort of "civil war" with the rioters in several cities attacking government buildings and different government organizations either fighting, ignoring, or tacitly supporting these attacks.

We've had groups of citizens already deem some area they have taken over as some level of "sovereign".

I'm afraid it wouldn't take much more to tip the scales.

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Everything you've written has been taking place for years and years before the black people started doing this. Didn't seem to bother anyone all that much on here.

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I must have missed it.

Can you point to the articles that are at the level of what has been happening in Seattle, Portland, and Minneapolis; including the elected government officials who have supported them?

This isn't just run of the mill protesting, or passing one or two day riots; this is over 40 days of continued assault.

This is no longer just a "Black Lives Matter" issue, but a full-blown attack on our federal and local governments by marxists.

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Well, we've seen riots in this country take place since before it was founded. Most were led by white people that targeted blacks and destroyed whole communities and killed hundreds.

We saw one area of the country declare themselves sovereign from the other because they wanted to keep their slaves. We've seen right wing militias and extremist declare themselves sovereign from the laws of the US for quite some time now. We've seen left wing extremists do this as well.

Cliven Bundy and his group of loons were able to do their thing and some even claimed they were heroes.

If Trump loses the trump v Biden war is less likely because Trump will cut a deal that allows him and his descendants to continue to be fabulously wealthy in exchange for his surrender

If Biden loses it is urban rioting and the Republicans trying to figure out how to keep people from starving during large scale civil unrest and Unprecedents Great Depression era levels of poverty

A Biden win would also come with a lot of poverty and economic pain but it is more manageable if their are not widespread riots going on at the same time.

Smokedraw01 said:

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Dad-O-Lot said:

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Smokedraw01 said:

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Dad-O-Lot said:

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Frankly, I think it could be argued that we are already in a sort of "civil war" with the rioters in several cities attacking government buildings and different government organizations either fighting, ignoring, or tacitly supporting these attacks.

We've had groups of citizens already deem some area they have taken over as some level of "sovereign".

I'm afraid it wouldn't take much more to tip the scales.

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Everything you've written has been taking place for years and years before the black people started doing this. Didn't seem to bother anyone all that much on here.

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I must have missed it.

Can you point to the articles that are at the level of what has been happening in Seattle, Portland, and Minneapolis; including the elected government officials who have supported them?

This isn't just run of the mill protesting, or passing one or two day riots; this is over 40 days of continued assault.

This is no longer just a "Black Lives Matter" issue, but a full-blown attack on our federal and local governments by marxists.

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Well, we've seen riots in this country take place since before it was founded. Most were led by white people that targeted blacks and destroyed whole communities and killed hundreds.

We saw one area of the country declare themselves sovereign from the other because they wanted to keep their slaves. We've seen right wing militias and extremist declare themselves sovereign from the laws of the US for quite some time now. We've seen left wing extremists do this as well.

Cliven Bundy and his group of loons were able to do their thing and some even claimed they were heroes.

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You realize that two of your examples led directly to the Civil War.

If Cliven Bundy had had the support of popular media and local elected officials, it would have turned out much different.

Some huge differences in what we are seeing today are:
1) Instant communication and video allow what would otherwise be just a local phenomenon to spread quickly.
2) A significant portion of elected government leaders sympathize with the rioters, their demands, and even apparently their methods.
3) It appears that about 40% of the country are willing to accept anything with regards to government and civil discourse in order to get rid of Donald Trump.

The fact that there is an election coming up and he could be gone in January without violence, I believe, is helping to keep the violence down somewhat. If Trump does not lose the election in November, I expect the violence to greatly increase.

One thing is absolutely certain: when the war arrives, many will be stunned that is has done so. We can talk about warning signs and look at historical precedents all day long, but there is widespread and arrogant belief that the United States will never experience such conflict. However, bloodshed and confusion will quickly dispel such notions.

Study the Spanish Civil war....right vs left... scattered pockets of each....communism vs fascism.....not too far off

AG81xx said:

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Study the Spanish Civil war....right vs left... scattered pockets of each....communism vs fascism.....not too far off

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Each side had the military assets spilt so each side had tanks and airplanes. Also, both sides had military assistance from foreign countries. Not at all "not too far off"

These civil war threads are sooooo old. Staff - start a hypothetical civil war forum. Please. Please.

HoustonAg2106 said:

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Personally, like most Americans, I'm too busy going to work and providing for a family to get involved in something like that

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Which is how this country will go full on socialist. Just make sure people keep their jobs and we're all good right?

SirLurksALot said:

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In general I find most of the Civil War scenarios on here highly unlikely. Most people are content with their lives and don't want to tear down the country to replace the government, even if they deeply dislike said government. The most vocal groups that advocate for violence, Antifa and some black separatist movements on the left and the militia movements on the right, don't have anywhere near enough supporters to do anything significant. Those groups alone won't start a war.

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I think Pareto principle applies here. Every election cycle since I've been old enough to pay attention seems to get more and more hyperbolic. The ranks of the hyper-politicized has on both sides seem to grow and get harsher. At a certain point, what were formerly (and likely still are) the fringes will bring this horror down on all of us and most of the remainder will neither cease to find a side nor have anything left that is t worth tearing down. I worry terribly that we may already be there.

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The only scenario I could see as remotely plausible would come out of a disputed election. Let's say Trump loses, claims that the election was invalid due to fraud and refused to leave office. Or on the other side let's say Trump wins but Democrats claim the election is invalid due to government interference. In both of these situations I think it would be very possible to get out of hand pretty quickly. The last time we had a disputed election was in 2000. Gore eventually conceded after the Supreme Court decision. What happens if the other candidate doesn't concede? I could see a situation where different states recognize their preferred candidate as the legitimate president.

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I actually think this is the goal today. There's so much about today's environment that has an do or die/last chance feel to it. Anything short of a landslide Trump victory is very worrying to me as a spark. A landslide a Republican victory after this year would represent a largely undisputed rejection of the left-wing identity/equity terror that the Democrats have embraced. A narrow victory by either side will likely devolve into refusal to concede victory. A landslide Democrat victory will come with accusations of fraud and conspiracy given the push for mail-in voting and Covid-driven suppression of in person voting. NY primaries this summer are pretty much proving why that accusation can't be dismissed as right wing lunacy, and national election isn't going to have 3-4 months to unravel the mess. Bush vs Gore seems like lifetime ago sometimes when you think about civility. I can't see one side blinking this time.

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If there ever is another civil war there likely won't be just two sides. You'd have other factions such as socialists or those fighting for a more right wing authoritarian style of government as well. I'd also expect China, Russia, and the EU to be heavily involved, including the possibility of sending troops to help support their preferred factions.

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Agreed, and I can't say I'd blame them. Geopolitical posturing aside, an American Civil War in the 21st century should terrify the hell out of every living being on this planet. The rapidity of the US dollar collapse would be devastating to global markets. The inevitable collapse of US agriculture would create global food shortages with cascading effects into other industries. I'm also not sure mutually assured destruction would apply as much when we're pointing weapons at each other with little strategic plan for what comes after right now. The results of such a conflict could be globally catastrophic.

Aggiebrewer said:

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AG81xx said:

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Study the Spanish Civil war....right vs left... scattered pockets of each....communism vs fascism.....not too far off

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the communists here ARE THE FASCISTS

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It was a little harder to figure out who were the good/bad guys in the Spanish Civil War.

world is being primed for world war

also i don't think there will be winners or losers, this is just what will be used to depopulate the planet... or at least america and china

If you want to put an end to all this crap, just bus all the protesters and antifa goofballs into pelosi, schumer and nadler's neighborhoods and let 'em camp out for a week.

Maybe y'all could just create one big Civil War thread like the Q thread? Might be easier.