Trying to steal an election isn't conservative
MAGA > Jesus?
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Last: 1 yr ago by SantaLucia
It is pretty arrogant for non Christians to tell Christians what we are "supposed" to believe and how we are "supposed" to vote.kurt vonnegut said:The Banned said:
Which was spurred on by non-Christian posters telling Christian's that if we were really Christian we would have different political opinions. This thread couldn't go any other way than political
I didn't point any fingers. I was hoping for a nudge back toward the topic in the OP instead of a pissing match between political factions on whose 'side' sucks less.
And that is basically the premise of this thread.
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I think that would be more of an ethics thing rather than conservative thing.schmendeler said:
Trying to steal an election isn't conservative
Abortion is my number one issue. And I believe it is the same for many conservative Christians.
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I interpret the point of the OP to be a suggestion that Conservative politics has changed courses and rather than being corrected by a largely Christian base, the Christian base has been pulled off course through its attachment to its political identity.dermdoc said:Believe it or not, the two are not mutually exclusive.schmendeler said:
Yes. We think Christians should follow Christ instead of Trump.
Do you believe Christians can follow Christ and be conservative?
Trump in particular is a character that does many things that I do not consider to be Christian-like. And many of those things are cheered on by Evangelicals rather than objected to. As has been pointed out, I'm not the authority on how Christians are supposed to act.
From my perspective, Evangelical support appears to be drawn toward the most angry and hateful and uncivil of the Republican leaders. Which is a concern of mine. I'm open to this being a skewed perspective on my part.
Well said
dermdoc said:It is pretty arrogant for non Christians to tell Christians what we are "supposed" to believe and how we are "supposed" to vote.kurt vonnegut said:The Banned said:
Which was spurred on by non-Christian posters telling Christian's that if we were really Christian we would have different political opinions. This thread couldn't go any other way than political
I didn't point any fingers. I was hoping for a nudge back toward the topic in the OP instead of a pissing match between political factions on whose 'side' sucks less.
And that is basically the premise of this thread.
I'm not trying to step in the middle of a pissing match. I'm trying to refresh the discussion.
As an outsider, I see a widening gulf between what Christians say they believe and the leaders they are supporting. I'm not stating it as fact. Its what it appears like to me. And I can expand on that if you are interested. But I'm interested in your take. . . . without whataboutisms about Democrats. If you want to start a thread about how the democratic party has equally lost its aim and allowed itself to be dragged left by more radical views, I'll participate. I've got gripes about the dems for days. But that is not what this thread is about. This thread is about whether or not religious persons are being dragged away from religious ideology by a diverging political ideology.
As an unrequested corollary, I've noticed a lot of conservative Christians to be more likely to take offense when someone disagrees with their politics than when someone disagrees with their religion. For instance, I've heard of conservative Christians cutting off communication with their liberal atheist siblings, but it is entirely because of the "liberal" part and not the "atheist" part.
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Climate change comes to mind. The dem pols want us to abide by rules while they leave a bigger carbon footprint with their private jets, limos, etc. And somehow wealth redistribution is going to lower temperatures.kurt vonnegut said:dermdoc said:It is pretty arrogant for non Christians to tell Christians what we are "supposed" to believe and how we are "supposed" to vote.kurt vonnegut said:The Banned said:
Which was spurred on by non-Christian posters telling Christian's that if we were really Christian we would have different political opinions. This thread couldn't go any other way than political
I didn't point any fingers. I was hoping for a nudge back toward the topic in the OP instead of a pissing match between political factions on whose 'side' sucks less.
And that is basically the premise of this thread.
I'm not trying to step in the middle of a pissing match. I'm trying to refresh the discussion.
As an outsider, I see a widening gulf between what Christians say they believe and the leaders they are supporting. I'm not stating it as fact. Its what it appears like to me. And I can expand on that if you are interested. But I'm interested in your take. . . . without whataboutisms about Democrats. If you want to start a thread about how the democratic party has equally lost its aim and allowed itself to be dragged left by more radical views, I'll participate. I've got gripes about the dems for days. But that is not what this thread is about. This thread is about whether or not religious persons are being dragged away from religious ideology by a diverging political ideology.
Do not want vouchers for private schools yet send their kids to private schools.
The LGBT wokeism is out of control. Something is wrong when the percentage of those identifying as that group goes from a relatively stable about 3-5% of the population and the percentage now is like 20-30% of the teen; young adult population. That does not even include the "furries".
And I am a "live and let live" guy. But I do not believe teachers should be teaching this stuff paid my tax dollars. Just teach math, science, etc.
The decline of big cities. The removal of police presence.
And Trump and Biden should both probably be in jail imho.
I am a DeSantis guy.
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Unfortunately I agree. And I was very guilty of that until I had an encounter with Jesus.ramblin_ag02 said:
As an unrequested corollary, I've noticed a lot of conservative Christians to be more likely to take offense when someone disagrees with their politics than when someone disagrees with their religion. For instance, I've heard of conservative Christians cutting off communication with their liberal atheist siblings, but it is entirely because of the "liberal" part and not the "atheist" part.
And the op saddens me. And drives folks away from the Gospel.
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kurt vonnegut said:dermdoc said:It is pretty arrogant for non Christians to tell Christians what we are "supposed" to believe and how we are "supposed" to vote.kurt vonnegut said:The Banned said:
Which was spurred on by non-Christian posters telling Christian's that if we were really Christian we would have different political opinions. This thread couldn't go any other way than political
I didn't point any fingers. I was hoping for a nudge back toward the topic in the OP instead of a pissing match between political factions on whose 'side' sucks less.
And that is basically the premise of this thread.
I'm not trying to step in the middle of a pissing match. I'm trying to refresh the discussion.
As an outsider, I see a widening gulf between what Christians say they believe and the leaders they are supporting. I'm not stating it as fact. Its what it appears like to me. And I can expand on that if you are interested. But I'm interested in your take. . . . without whataboutisms about Democrats. If you want to start a thread about how the democratic party has equally lost its aim and allowed itself to be dragged left by more radical views, I'll participate. I've got gripes about the dems for days. But that is not what this thread is about. This thread is about whether or not religious persons are being dragged away from religious ideology by a diverging political ideology.
Our pushback is as valid as your observation: it's anecdotal and based on media stories. How do you, as an outsider to our churches and congregations, tell us what we or our friends and family believe or think? What validity is there in your statement based on Facebook or whatever that isn't in ours?
As I pointed out in the beginning, the article quoted sources an ex-SBC member who has admittedly moved left (egalitarian v complementarian debate is an example) and is friends with Francis Collins, Tim Keller, David French, and others who are not conservative. They claim to be and their credibility to sell articles is based on prior membership and repudiation of a group and victimhood.
Perhaps you aren't tied into conservative circles but these guys represent what is called Big Eva. They're the elites trying to steer discussions and are being rejected at the grass roots level. They're the ones suggesting restraint from celebrating Dobbs. They wanted churches to mask up and shut down. They're silent on Biden and his technocrats but have no problem criticizing the right. They are inherently political but the criticism of trump is what gets your attention because it reinforces your existing bias.
dermdoc said:
Climate change comes to mind. The dem pols want us to abide by rules while they leave a bigger carbon footprint with their private jets, limos, etc. And somehow wealth redistribution is going to lower temperatures.
Do not want vouchers for private schools yet send their kids to private schools.
The LGBT wokeism is out of control. Something is wrong when the percentage of those identifying as that group goes from a relatively stable about 3-5% of the population and the percentage now is like 20-30% of the teen; young adult population. That does not even include the "furries".
And I am a "live and let live" guy. But I do not believe teachers should be teaching this stuff paid my tax dollars. Just teach math, science, etc.
The decline of big cities. The removal of police presence.
And Trump and Biden should both probably be in jail imho.
I am a DeSantis guy.
So, you are only interested in the pissing match, then?
Good talk.
It's a relief to know that the existence of hypocrites removes the reality of a problem.
Did you not ask where I felt the dems had gone off the rails?kurt vonnegut said:dermdoc said:
Climate change comes to mind. The dem pols want us to abide by rules while they leave a bigger carbon footprint with their private jets, limos, etc. And somehow wealth redistribution is going to lower temperatures.
Do not want vouchers for private schools yet send their kids to private schools.
The LGBT wokeism is out of control. Something is wrong when the percentage of those identifying as that group goes from a relatively stable about 3-5% of the population and the percentage now is like 20-30% of the teen; young adult population. That does not even include the "furries".
And I am a "live and let live" guy. But I do not believe teachers should be teaching this stuff paid my tax dollars. Just teach math, science, etc.
The decline of big cities. The removal of police presence.
And Trump and Biden should both probably be in jail imho.
I am a DeSantis guy.
So, you are only interested in the pissing match, then?
Good talk.
I am confused. Not trying to start a pissing match just honestly saying where I think the dems have gone off the rails.
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Are you guys really this blind to how radical we believe some of your policies are?schmendeler said:
It's a relief to know that the existence of hypocrites removes the reality of a problem.
It is fascinating.
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kurt vonnegut said:dermdoc said:
Climate change comes to mind. The dem pols want us to abide by rules while they leave a bigger carbon footprint with their private jets, limos, etc. And somehow wealth redistribution is going to lower temperatures.
Do not want vouchers for private schools yet send their kids to private schools.
The LGBT wokeism is out of control. Something is wrong when the percentage of those identifying as that group goes from a relatively stable about 3-5% of the population and the percentage now is like 20-30% of the teen; young adult population. That does not even include the "furries".
And I am a "live and let live" guy. But I do not believe teachers should be teaching this stuff paid my tax dollars. Just teach math, science, etc.
The decline of big cities. The removal of police presence.
And Trump and Biden should both probably be in jail imho.
I am a DeSantis guy.
So, you are only interested in the pissing match, then?
Good talk.
Kurt who are the leaders you're referring to? Is it just any public figure? Is it their individual pastor? Where does this determination come from?
Ha, no, I very deliberately explained that was NOT the point of the thread in my opinion.dermdoc said:
Did you not ask where I felt the dems had gone off the rails?
Your exact quote talks about us expressing how we think the Democratic Party has allowed itself to be dragged left by more radical views.kurt vonnegut said:dermdoc said:It is pretty arrogant for non Christians to tell Christians what we are "supposed" to believe and how we are "supposed" to vote.kurt vonnegut said:The Banned said:
Which was spurred on by non-Christian posters telling Christian's that if we were really Christian we would have different political opinions. This thread couldn't go any other way than political
I didn't point any fingers. I was hoping for a nudge back toward the topic in the OP instead of a pissing match between political factions on whose 'side' sucks less.
And that is basically the premise of this thread.
I'm not trying to step in the middle of a pissing match. I'm trying to refresh the discussion.
As an outsider, I see a widening gulf between what Christians say they believe and the leaders they are supporting. I'm not stating it as fact. Its what it appears like to me. And I can expand on that if you are interested. But I'm interested in your take. . . . without whataboutisms about Democrats. If you want to start a thread about how the democratic party has equally lost its aim and allowed itself to be dragged left by more radical views, I'll participate.
I guess I broke the rules by putting this on this thread instead of starting a new thread?
Which of course would devolve into the same thing.
And forgive me for not starting a new thread. Not going to start one as I do not want to further stir the pot.
Not going to change anybody's mind.
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No problem. Again, I'm very clearly trying to avoid a pissing match between which 'side' is worse. Not pour gas on that fire.
As for me, as I stated the op saddens me. My Christian identity trumps (pun intended) my conservative politics.
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AGC said:
Kurt who are the leaders you're referring to? Is it just any public figure? Is it their individual pastor? Where does this determination come from?
I put Trump at the top of the list. But, I think it includes Desantis, MTG, Cruz, Ron Johnson, Gaetz, Haley, Tucker, Hannity, Boebert, and the like. Read their rhetoric. So much of it is simply hateful. And these are the exact leaders that evangelicals rally behind. And they rally behind them specifically because they are the voice of their own hate.
24/7 news channels and social media has provided all of us an avenue to bubble ourselves up with only people we like. And business models are now built in those industries around reinforcing those bubbles and pouring gas on the fire of our disapproval of the other 'side'. Anger sells. Hate sells. Hate gets people to the polls. Virtually every news article headline and social media algorithm is designed to make someone mad. And I think that's absolutely seeped into religious groups. How could it not? Its seeped into everything.
kurt vonnegut said:AGC said:
Kurt who are the leaders you're referring to? Is it just any public figure? Is it their individual pastor? Where does this determination come from?
I put Trump at the top of the list. But, I think it includes Desantis, MTG, Cruz, Ron Johnson, Gaetz, Haley, Tucker, Hannity, Boebert, and the like. Read their rhetoric. So much of it is simply hateful. And these are the exact leaders that evangelicals rally behind. And they rally behind them specifically because they are the voice of their own hate.
24/7 news channels and social media has provided all of us an avenue to bubble ourselves up with only people we like. And business models are now built in those industries around reinforcing those bubbles and pouring gas on the fire of our disapproval of the other 'side'. Anger sells. Hate sells. Hate gets people to the polls. Virtually every news article headline and social media algorithm is designed to make someone mad. And I think that's absolutely seeped into religious groups. How could it not? Its seeped into everything.
Can grant derm a little leeway then? Who we vote for is tied just as much to what choices we're presented with (that worked in trumps favor and then against it). People vote against things as much as for them so whether we like it or not, whataboutism impacts our decision making.
We can make rational cases for our politicians' positions without needing the person. This has more to do with how the political machines pick and promote candidates than it does our religious beliefs.
Edit: The engagement of many in this thread comes across as wanting to talk about our standards and morals while making no apologies for equally detestable behavior by the opposition who claims they can be moral without God. We see lots of immoral and hateful behavior and view ourselves as voting for something that's at least consistent and justifiable outside of the person doing it. We divorce ideas from people and that's part of our theology (love the sinner hate the sin, for example). That doesn't seem to be a thing for the 'left'.
Have you ever thought that what you think is "hateful" is not perceived that way by conservative Christians?kurt vonnegut said:AGC said:
Kurt who are the leaders you're referring to? Is it just any public figure? Is it their individual pastor? Where does this determination come from?
I put Trump at the top of the list. But, I think it includes Desantis, MTG, Cruz, Ron Johnson, Gaetz, Haley, Tucker, Hannity, Boebert, and the like. Read their rhetoric. So much of it is simply hateful. And these are the exact leaders that evangelicals rally behind. And they rally behind them specifically because they are the voice of their own hate.
24/7 news channels and social media has provided all of us an avenue to bubble ourselves up with only people we like. And business models are now built in those industries around reinforcing those bubbles and pouring gas on the fire of our disapproval of the other 'side'. Anger sells. Hate sells. Hate gets people to the polls. Virtually every news article headline and social media algorithm is designed to make someone mad. And I think that's absolutely seeped into religious groups. How could it not? Its seeped into everything.
And I know you do not get it as it seems so clear to you.
And I will quit posting on this thread as it is starting to anger me. It seems as if you can not understand how conservative Christians could say the same about Biden, Obama, etc. They seem to attack our beliefs and basic identity.
If you do not understand that then we can not discuss this.
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You really think those people listed are not hateful? You really think trump isn't hateful?Quote:
Have you ever thought that what you think is "hateful" is not perceived that way by conservative Christians?
dermdoc said:
Have you ever thought that what you think is "hateful" is not perceived that way by conservative Christians?
And I know you do not get it as it seems so clear to you.
And I will quit posting on this thread as it is starting to anger me. It seems as if you can not understand how conservative Christians could say the same about Biden, Obama, etc. They seem to attack our beliefs and basic identity.
If you do not understand that then we can not discuss this.
I understand why Christians are upset with liberals. Do you understand why liberals are upset with Christians?
I'm late to this thread, but I think it is wrong to tacitly assume that anybody actually supports their presidential candidates. I mean, the most recent election featured Trump and Biden drawn from a country with over 300 million people. These were the best we had to offer???kurt vonnegut said:dermdoc said:
Have you ever thought that what you think is "hateful" is not perceived that way by conservative Christians?
And I know you do not get it as it seems so clear to you.
And I will quit posting on this thread as it is starting to anger me. It seems as if you can not understand how conservative Christians could say the same about Biden, Obama, etc. They seem to attack our beliefs and basic identity.
If you do not understand that then we can not discuss this.
I understand why Christians are upset with liberals. Do you understand why liberals are upset with Christians?
Each side was presented the same two flawed candidates. You make your choice based on the candidate that best represents your politics, regardless of how that line may poorly fit the scatter of your actual beliefs. To do otherwise is to cede your civic power and responsibility. Sadly, many have become disgusted or jaded with the current system and have done just that.
I would suggest not asserting folks political leanings with their religion. Lots of stupidity to attack on both sides of the ledger, and the complexity of the full situation can't be easily distilled into a binary vote. .
kurt vonnegut said:dermdoc said:
Have you ever thought that what you think is "hateful" is not perceived that way by conservative Christians?
And I know you do not get it as it seems so clear to you.
And I will quit posting on this thread as it is starting to anger me. It seems as if you can not understand how conservative Christians could say the same about Biden, Obama, etc. They seem to attack our beliefs and basic identity.
If you do not understand that then we can not discuss this.
I understand why Christians are upset with liberals. Do you understand why liberals are upset with Christians?
Sure. But when I post my rebuttals to your statements, you tell me I am engaging in a political pissing match, correct?
Are you not doing the same thing?
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Aggrad08 said:You really think those people listed are not hateful? You really think trump isn't hateful?Quote:
Have you ever thought that what you think is "hateful" is not perceived that way by conservative Christians?
I think Trump is more narcissistic and vengeful than hatred.
The other pols listed no.
As I mentioned lib pols seem hateful to people like me. Especially to unborn babies.
And I get why libs would find conservative politicians statements "hateful".
Seems like libs are not self aware enough to realize how their pols' statements are perceived by conservative Christians.
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If you compared every hateful thing Obama ever said do you think it would be remotely comparable to every hateful thing trump ever said? Hell I don't think it would be comparable if you limited it to things trump said about republicans.dermdoc said:Aggrad08 said:You really think those people listed are not hateful? You really think trump isn't hateful?Quote:
Have you ever thought that what you think is "hateful" is not perceived that way by conservative Christians?
I think Trump is more narcissistic and vengeful than hatred.
The other pols listed no.
As I mentioned lib pols seem hateful to people like me. Especially to unborn babies.
And I get why libs would find conservative politicians statements "hateful".
Seems like libs are not self aware enough to realize how their pols' statements are perceived by conservative Christians.
And just because trump is more narcissitic than hateful doesn't mean he's not plenty hateful, when you are that big a narcissist there is lots of rooms for other large character flaws to be eclipsed.
yea we get it, you disagree on abortion. This is no different than democrats pols saying republicans hate women. I find both arguments facile. Its boldly disingenuous to characterize this disagreement as hate and use it as a whataboutism to compare Biden or Obama or literally all democrats to trump.Quote:
As I mentioned lib pols seem hateful to people like me. Especially to unborn babies.
I'm not saying there aren't reasons christians would dislike democrat politicians or that democrat politicians never say anything hateful or more often simply patronizing and dismissive of christians. I'm saying there is no democrat donald trump. It's not close, I think if you saw a democrat actually behave this way you'd lose it.
Aggrad08 said:If you compared every hateful thing Obama ever said do you think it would be remotely comparable to every hateful thing trump ever said? Hell I don't think it would be comparable if you limited it to things trump said about republicans.dermdoc said:Aggrad08 said:You really think those people listed are not hateful? You really think trump isn't hateful?Quote:
Have you ever thought that what you think is "hateful" is not perceived that way by conservative Christians?
I think Trump is more narcissistic and vengeful than hatred.
The other pols listed no.
As I mentioned lib pols seem hateful to people like me. Especially to unborn babies.
And I get why libs would find conservative politicians statements "hateful".
Seems like libs are not self aware enough to realize how their pols' statements are perceived by conservative Christians.
And just because trump is more narcissitic than hateful doesn't mean he's not plenty hateful, when you are that big a narcissist there is lots of rooms for other large character flaws to be eclipsed.yea we get it, you disagree on abortion. This is no different than democrats pols saying republicans hate women. I find both arguments facile. Its boldly disingenuous to characterize this disagreement as hate and use it as a whataboutism to compare Biden or Obama or literally all democrats to trump.Quote:
As I mentioned lib pols seem hateful to people like me. Especially to unborn babies.
I'm not saying there aren't reasons christians would dislike democrat politicians or that democrat politicians never say anything hateful or more often simply patronizing and dismissive of christians. I'm saying there is no democrat donald trump. It's not close, I think if you saw a democrat actually behave this way you'd lose it.
Fair enough.
Kurt listed a lot more repub pols than Trump, correct?
And sorry but if you believe abortion is murder then I think comparing that to "republicans hate women" is facile.
A terrible analogy. Killing babies to supposedly hating women is not the same.
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They are both facile arguments not made by serious people who are making any honest attempt to understand the other sides position that's the point I'm trying to make. Democrats don't hate babies, this is unbelievably stupid. Republicans don't hate women, this is unbelievably stupid.Quote:
And sorry but if you believe abortion is murder then I think comparing that to "republicans hate women" is facile
My point with trump is you brought up Obama and Biden, these are not of a kind. With some of kurt's list there is a democrat equivalent, with some less so, it's a case by case thing.
If I may, I think theres a few things to parse out. There is our two-choice electoral system that forces people to take one of two bad choices. To put it in the most hyperpartisan strawman terms, 2020 was a choice between transgendered radicals that wanted no borders, free college, and no police versus a fascist personality cult that was ready to overthrow democracy and ignore the Constitution and objective truth to support the whims of a narcissistic conman who put tariffs on China. Pick one side and defend it.
I think what those of us that picked Transgendered Marxists in the last election looked at Christians who supported Trump in the last election with not just a heavy heart and tacit acceptance of the sad limitations of two poor choices, but fully embraced the candidate and his methods/style. Youre naive if you dont think this was found in a strong majority or at least sizeable minority of Christian voters. The dichotomy between the political values and religious values was impossible to miss, and we didnt see nearly enough voice pushing back towards Christian fruits of the spirit in how Republicans engage in civic life. That was profoundly disappointing to me and others.
I think what those of us that picked Transgendered Marxists in the last election looked at Christians who supported Trump in the last election with not just a heavy heart and tacit acceptance of the sad limitations of two poor choices, but fully embraced the candidate and his methods/style. Youre naive if you dont think this was found in a strong majority or at least sizeable minority of Christian voters. The dichotomy between the political values and religious values was impossible to miss, and we didnt see nearly enough voice pushing back towards Christian fruits of the spirit in how Republicans engage in civic life. That was profoundly disappointing to me and others.
And I will add, Leaders of huge congregations were falling all over themselves to not just support him, but dive head first into the cult of personality that was Trump. I think everyone reemmbers the nauseating display First Baptist Church of Dallas and Jeffries put on multiple times.
Malibu said:
If I may, I think theres a few things to parse out. There is our two-choice electoral system that forces people to take one of two bad choices. To put it in the most hyperpartisan strawman terms, 2020 was a choice between transgendered radicals that wanted no borders, free college, and no police versus a fascist personality cult that was ready to overthrow democracy and ignore the Constitution and objective truth to support the whims of a narcissistic conman who put tariffs on China. Pick one side and defend it.
I think what those of us that picked Transgendered Marxists in the last election looked at Christians who supported Trump in the last election with not just a heavy heart and tacit acceptance of the sad limitations of two poor choices, but fully embraced the candidate and his methods/style. Youre naive if you dont think this was found in a strong majority or at least sizeable minority of Christian voters. The dichotomy between the political values and religious values was impossible to miss, and we didnt see nearly enough voice pushing back towards Christian fruits of the spirit in how Republicans engage in civic life. That was profoundly disappointing to me and others.
Since none of y'all are believers, let's take Christian beliefs out of the equation.
Trump is a product of radical leftism. It is a reaction to normal people being called xenophobes, racists, bigots, haters, etc.
And you are naive if this has not become very prevalent from the dem party.
Then you use Christian beliefs as you (non believers) perceive them and call Christians hypocrites for voting for Trump.
And now it has gone beyond Trump to apparently include about every prominent Republic politician.
I considered it "hate speech" when Obama lied about what doctors make and charged to garner public support for Obamacare. It was a direct shot at me and my profession.
The bottom line is that most of us see things through their own political lens and that guides a lot of our thought processes.
I am trying hard to focus more on views based on a Christian perspective but to think basically everything a repub pol says is hate speech goes beyond the pale.
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Macarthur said:
And I will add, Leaders of huge congregations were falling all over themselves to not just support him, but dive head first into the cult of personality that was Trump. I think everyone reemmbers the nauseating display First Baptist Church of Dallas and Jeffries put on multiple times.
Do you remember Reverend Wright?
C'Mon man.
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dermdoc said:Malibu said:
If I may, I think theres a few things to parse out. There is our two-choice electoral system that forces people to take one of two bad choices. To put it in the most hyperpartisan strawman terms, 2020 was a choice between transgendered radicals that wanted no borders, free college, and no police versus a fascist personality cult that was ready to overthrow democracy and ignore the Constitution and objective truth to support the whims of a narcissistic conman who put tariffs on China. Pick one side and defend it.
I think what those of us that picked Transgendered Marxists in the last election looked at Christians who supported Trump in the last election with not just a heavy heart and tacit acceptance of the sad limitations of two poor choices, but fully embraced the candidate and his methods/style. Youre naive if you dont think this was found in a strong majority or at least sizeable minority of Christian voters. The dichotomy between the political values and religious values was impossible to miss, and we didnt see nearly enough voice pushing back towards Christian fruits of the spirit in how Republicans engage in civic life. That was profoundly disappointing to me and others.
Since none of y'all are believers, let's take Christian beliefs out of the equation.
Trump is a product of radical leftism. It is a reaction to normal people being called xenophobes, racists, bigots, haters, etc.
And you are naive if this has not become very prevalent from the dem party.
Then you use Christian beliefs as you (non believers) perceive them and call Christians hypocrites for voting for Trump.
And now it has gone beyond Trump to apparently include about every prominent Republic politician.
I considered it "hate speech" when Obama lied about what doctors make and charged to garner public support for Obamacare. It was a direct shot at me and my profession.
The bottom line is that most of us see things through their own political lens and that guides a lot of our thought processes.
I am trying hard to focus more on views based on a Christian perspective but to think basically everything a repub pol says is hate speech goes beyond the pale.
Trump had a very populist message in 2016. He was not running his campaign the way his rhetoric evolved throughout his presidency.
And that's exactly why he got destroyed in 2020.
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