Life

1,329 Views | 16 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by kurt vonnegut
Thaddeus73
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Sapper Redux
How long do you want to ignore this user?
The Peaky Blinders imagery is ironic. Being crushed could just mean a painful, pointless transformation into goo.
kurt vonnegut
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Sapper Redux said:

The Peaky Blinders imagery is ironic. Being crushed could just mean a painful, pointless transformation into goo.

Yeah. . . . I think irony is the right word here. The pressure and crushing and darkness all served to transform Thomas Shelby into something pretty dark. Fantastic show though!
88Warrior
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Good example of those that see things as half empty vs. half full….
Sapper Redux
How long do you want to ignore this user?
For the people who don't survive or suffer intensely in harsh situations, it's not "half empty." These kinds of cheap sentiments don't help anyone.
88Warrior
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sapper Redux said:

For the people who don't survive or suffer intensely in harsh situations, it's not "half empty." These kinds of cheap sentiments don't help anyone.


They may not help you but they do for a lot of others..especially those of faith…
Sapper Redux
How long do you want to ignore this user?
It's meaningless pablum that harms more than it helps. Tell a grieving spouse or kid that "God never gives you more than you can handle." Or, "this will make you stronger." That's harmful horse**** that minimizes legitimate concerns and grief to try and force it into a theology that for some reason you have to prioritize over the needs of suffering individual.
kurt vonnegut
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
88Warrior said:

Good example of those that see things as half empty vs. half full….

Pressure can have the affect of giving someone something to rise above or it can have the affect of harming a person. PTSD (which is relevant to Mr. Shelby) is a good example. I don't think its a pessimistic outlook, I think its realistic.

edit -
Keeping with the analogy in the original post. The right type and level of pressure turns grapes into wine and coal into diamonds. The 'wrong' kind or quantity of pressure does not yield the same results.
The Banned
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sapper Redux said:

It's meaningless pablum that harms more than it helps. Tell a grieving spouse or kid that "God never gives you more than you can handle." Or, "this will make you stronger." That's harmful horse**** that minimizes legitimate concerns and grief to try and force it into a theology that for some reason you have to prioritize over the needs of suffering individual.


How about something like: "this situation absolutely sucks ass. No way around it. It's absolutely unfair to you. Now you decide if you want to fight back or succumb to it".
southernboy1
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Have a drink and wait
Sapper Redux
How long do you want to ignore this user?
The Banned said:

Sapper Redux said:

It's meaningless pablum that harms more than it helps. Tell a grieving spouse or kid that "God never gives you more than you can handle." Or, "this will make you stronger." That's harmful horse**** that minimizes legitimate concerns and grief to try and force it into a theology that for some reason you have to prioritize over the needs of suffering individual.


How about something like: "this situation absolutely sucks ass. No way around it. It's absolutely unfair to you. Now you decide if you want to fight back or succumb to it".


How does that help actually address the problem? Giving people a false sense of agency doesn't help, it just amplifies the odds that you create a new mental health issue.
dermdoc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Sapper Redux said:

It's meaningless pablum that harms more than it helps. Tell a grieving spouse or kid that "God never gives you more than you can handle." Or, "this will make you stronger." That's harmful horse**** that minimizes legitimate concerns and grief to try and force it into a theology that for some reason you have to prioritize over the needs of suffering individual.
With all due respect, you seem to have a distorted, almost caricature, like projection of who you think Christians are, what they believe, and how they act in times of grief.

I do agree with you that those two supposed "Christian" phrases you posted are superficial and not very sincere.

Also not based on Biblical principles.

Jesus certainly never said anything like that. He wept when Lazarus died even though He knew He would raise him from the dead.

I have suffered numerous family losses. All services were held in our church. Never remember anybody saying those words to me or my family.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
dermdoc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The key is that is you really know and have faith in Christ. Even though you grieve you actually believe your loved one is with Him.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
The Banned
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sapper Redux said:

The Banned said:

Sapper Redux said:

It's meaningless pablum that harms more than it helps. Tell a grieving spouse or kid that "God never gives you more than you can handle." Or, "this will make you stronger." That's harmful horse**** that minimizes legitimate concerns and grief to try and force it into a theology that for some reason you have to prioritize over the needs of suffering individual.


How about something like: "this situation absolutely sucks ass. No way around it. It's absolutely unfair to you. Now you decide if you want to fight back or succumb to it".


How does that help actually address the problem? Giving people a false sense of agency doesn't help, it just amplifies the odds that you create a new mental health issue.


What are some situations you can think of that a sense of agency would be truly false? Outside of a terminal illness, I can think of none.
kurt vonnegut
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The Banned said:


How about something like: "this situation absolutely sucks ass. No way around it. It's absolutely unfair to you. Now you decide if you want to fight back or succumb to it".

I can relate to what you are saying, but I think its flawed in that it assumes that all trials and pressures and unfairnesses can or should yield similar results.

Stresses to perform well in school or work or sports often makes people better. It can be the pressure that turns coal to diamonds. Is child abuse or sexual abuse the type of stress that makes people better? You could still tell someone that is that type of victim that they can fight back or succumb to it - but its more likely that fighting back in their case means learning to live with and deal with something terrible. This isn't the type of stress that is likely to turn coal into diamonds. Is PTSD a trauma that makes people better? Are soldiers that deal with mental stresses weak because they haven't turned horrible war experiences into diamonds?

In Shelby's case, his story is that he was a tunneller for the Brits in WW1. The flashbacks in the show are meant to be horrible and scary and traumatic. His character leaves the war desensitized and cynical. Pressure doesn't always turn coal into diamond, sometimes it makes TNT - at least that is a theme of Peaky Blinders. . . . which is why the original post feels ironic.
The Banned
How long do you want to ignore this user?
kurt vonnegut said:

The Banned said:


How about something like: "this situation absolutely sucks ass. No way around it. It's absolutely unfair to you. Now you decide if you want to fight back or succumb to it".

I can relate to what you are saying, but I think its flawed in that it assumes that all trials and pressures and unfairnesses can or should yield similar results.

Stresses to perform well in school or work or sports often makes people better. It can be the pressure that turns coal to diamonds. Is child abuse or sexual abuse the type of stress that makes people better? You could still tell someone that is that type of victim that they can fight back or succumb to it - but its more likely that fighting back in their case means learning to live with and deal with something terrible. This isn't the type of stress that is likely to turn coal into diamonds. Is PTSD a trauma that makes people better? Are soldiers that deal with mental stresses weak because they haven't turned horrible war experiences into diamonds?

In Shelby's case, his story is that he was a tunneller for the Brits in WW1. The flashbacks in the show are meant to be horrible and scary and traumatic. His character leaves the war desensitized and cynical. Pressure doesn't always turn coal into diamond, sometimes it makes TNT - at least that is a theme of Peaky Blinders. . . . which is why the original post feels ironic.


But you aren't suggesting that he had no agency, correct? You're not saying that with adequate mental health resources that he could have had the opportunity to go a different way, correct?

My original post was meant to be short and to the point. This abbreviated conversation would be lengthened in a therapy type scenario. If the pressure applied to him in the war set him (or the sexual abuse victims, etc) on a path that they can't help but to follow, why encourage greater access to mental health treatments? May as well just let people do what they're going to do.

I firmly believe anyone can turn their terrible situation around, regardless of their circumstances. I also believe that is much, much harder for some people than others. This doesn't make them weak. But encouraging a platform of self-determination from "this point on" is kind of the point of seeking help in the first place.
kurt vonnegut
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The Banned said:


But you aren't suggesting that he had no agency, correct? You're not saying that with adequate mental health resources that he could have had the opportunity to go a different way, correct?

My original post was meant to be short and to the point. This abbreviated conversation would be lengthened in a therapy type scenario. If the pressure applied to him in the war set him (or the sexual abuse victims, etc) on a path that they can't help but to follow, why encourage greater access to mental health treatments? May as well just let people do what they're going to do.

I firmly believe anyone can turn their terrible situation around, regardless of their circumstances. I also believe that is much, much harder for some people than others. This doesn't make them weak. But encouraging a platform of self-determination from "this point on" is kind of the point of seeking help in the first place.

Of course he has agency and could have gone another way. Shelby is not excused from his actions or from what he allows the pressures to transform him into. His character is violent, selfish, inaccessible to his family, and self destructive. He's a ruthless gangster and he owns his actions. But, some of his actions make sense in context by understanding the pressures he's had.

In this thread I mean to be critical of the original post. Crushing grapes makes wine, pressure into diamonds, olives into oil. . . . when you feel these pressures "you are in a powerful place of transformation.". . . And for Thomas Shelby, the middle character in this picture, those pressures served a transformation that created a monster instead of a fine wine or diamond.

Grapes must be crushed to make wine. But over crushing grapes releases too much tannin and leaves the wine bitter. And it would be foolish to curse the overcrushed grapes of your wine for being bitter. As you said, we have agency. Grapes don't, and so the analogy falls apart a bit.

The quote in the OP would make more sense if it featured someone who went through pressures and hardships and became a saint. . . not a gangster. An super-cool, badass gangster.
Refresh
Page 1 of 1
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.