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Ro 1:28 God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper

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NASB: depraved- destroyed, corrupted, ruined, perverted

NKJV & ESV: Debased mind -unqualified disqualified

KJV: Reprobate mind -worthless, unqualified disqualified


In the immediate context this passage is referring to homosexuals. How do you reach someone who's mind is corrupted, like a disk that needs reformatted?

We know this is possible:

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1 Co 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

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However as a result of someone having corrupted mind, whenever you point out the problem, often there is an immediate reaction of "You hate me", "you're judging me", or "God made me this way". All of which are lies, and make the debased mind a hard thing to overcome.

How do you convince someone that their mind is ruined, and not working properly. The second you tell them the truth they many choose to be offended. Many who " approve of those who practice them." (Ro 1:32) tell me that simply by pointing out that they are practicing a grave sin that will keep them out of heaven, that simply by posting the Holy word of God, even when done with no comment, that I am somehow judging or being harsh. How do you explain to someone that their mind is corrupted, and that they are perverted in a non harsh way?

The sad reality is that one of the consequences of a reprobate mind is that if you have one, the probability of you realizing you have one is diminished by the reprobate mind itself.

I'm sure there are other sins of pleasure that could be lumped into the reprobate mindset, when you talk about addiction, or selfish passion. The first step is admitting you have a problem right? How do you get someone to see that homosexuality is a problem, and that it will condemn their souls if they don't stop?

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1 Co 6:9-10 Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

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TxAgPreacher said:

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Ro 1:28 God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper

---

NASB: depraved- destroyed, corrupted, ruined, perverted

NKJV & ESV: Debased mind -unqualified disqualified

KJV: Reprobate mind -worthless, unqualified disqualified


In the immediate context this passage is referring to homosexuals. How do you reach someone who's mind is corrupted, like a disk that needs reformatted?

We know this is possible:

Quote:

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1 Co 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

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However as a result of someone having corrupted mind, whenever you point out the problem, often there is an immediate reaction of "You hate me", "you're judging me", or "God made me this way". All of which are lies, and make the debased mind a hard thing to overcome.

How do you convince someone that their mind is ruined, and not working properly. The second you tell them the truth they choose to be offended. Many who " approve of those who practice them." (Ro 1:32) tell me that simply by pointing out that they are practicing a grave sin that will keep them out of heaven, that simply by posting the Holy word of God, even when done with no comment, that I am somehow judging or being harsh. How do you explain to someone that their mind is corrupted, and that they are perverted in a non harsh way?

The sad reality is that one of the consequences of a reprobate mind is that if you have one, the probability of you realizing you have one is diminished by the reprobate mind itself.

I'm sure there are other sins of pleasure that could be lumped into the reprobate mindset, when you talk about addiction, or selfish passion. The first step is admitting you have a problem right? How do you get someone to see that homosexuality is a problem, and that it will condemn their souls if they don't stop.

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1 Co 6:9-10 Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

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The last scripture you quoted pretty much covers all of us at one time in the past present or future. When I talk to someone I would admit that I am just as much of a sinner. We all rationalize moments of weakness and then regret (and hopefully repentance) follows. I try not to describe anyone as having far more sin than me as if I'm somehow elevated because I perceive to have less. The only thing that elevates me (and whomever I'm speaking to) is Christs forgiveness and salvation. I'm sure at times, I act like a heathen too. The degrees of it shouldn't matter. How you approach faith in addressing it does

Not helpful. It's not what I've decided. It's what scripture says.

If there is no point then why derail?

You realize we have a much better understanding of the human brain now than when Paul and whoever else was writing? LGBT people aren't "deviants." They aren't "evil." It's a normal variation that can be found across nature. They aren't rebelling against anything any more than any other person.

Sapper Redux said:

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You realize we have a much better understanding of the human brain now than when Paul and whoever else was writing? LGBT people aren't "deviants." They aren't "evil." It's a normal variation that can be found across nature. They aren't rebelling against anything any more than any other person.

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I didn't say deviant, although they are by definition deviating from God. Evil (which I also didn't say) is simply defined "morally reprehensible : SINFUL, WICKED". They fit this definition as well. Not my opinion, but what Holy scripture says.

It's also not natural again according to God's word, not my opinion.

They are in open rebellion practicing sin. Again according to scripture, if they practice this they are in open rebellion to God.

I'm putting forth what the scriptures say, and they say the opposite of what you are saying. So yes that is not debatable. So I guess that is pointless to debate. It's not debatable that that's what scripture says. Obviously you disagree. So if you dont want to have that debate then you are correct, its pointless. Why comment?

I have a book that says you're wicked. It's right there in the book that you're a deviant. I'd never say that, but sadly my book does. I wish you'd stop being the way you are because my book says you're the wrong way. I hope you'll change your ways and start living the way my book says you should.

Beer Baron said:

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I have a book that says you're wicked. It's right there in the book that you're a deviant. I'd never say that, but sadly my book does. I wish you'd stop being the way you are because my book says you're the wrong way. I hope you'll change your ways and start living the way my book says you should.

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I'm saying I didn't come up with this opinion, and it's not simply an opinion. It's the word of God.

I was expecting Christian responses.

You're trying to make it seem like I dont share that opinion. Of course I do. You pointing that out doesnt make you smart it means the argument went over your head. It's an appeal to Christians that I'm not saying "I personally think LGBT is icky"

I'm saying this is Christian doctrine. If we are interested in saving them from a corrupt mind, how do we(Christians) convince them that they are corrupt? If we love them then we(Christians) have an obligation to help them be approved by God. By definition, until they change their thinking, they cannot be approved of.

I'm simply making the point that these words(Gods words) have meaning. Pointing it out to Christian's that it isn't simply my opinion, but rather God's.

That wasn't an own by you. It was a strawman, because the actual argument went right over your head.

No, he got the actual argument. And you're not going to convince anyone because the entire basis of your argument is words. Nothing but words. Not actually understanding the science, not actually understanding the people, just declaring them terrible because of words.

Sapper Redux said:

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No, he got the actual argument. And you're not going to convince anyone because the entire basis of your argument is words. Nothing but words. Not actually understanding the science, not actually understanding the people, just declaring them terrible because of words.

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Almost every argument could be described as nothing but words...

There's research and evidence that has gone into the study of same-sex attraction. It's quite common across the world and in a variety of very different species. In other words, it's a natural, biological state of being, just as heterosexuality is. Your only response is words in your holy book which you aren't reading in the original language or original context, and ascribing meaning to them above any other aspect of life or reality. And the result is some pretty hateful, dehumanizing stuff.

TxAgPreacher said:

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Beer Baron said:

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I have a book that says you're wicked. It's right there in the book that you're a deviant. I'd never say that, but sadly my book does. I wish you'd stop being the way you are because my book says you're the wrong way. I hope you'll change your ways and start living the way my book says you should.

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I'm saying I didn't come up with this opinion, and it's not simply an opinion. It's the word of God.

I was expecting Christian responses.

You're trying to make it seem like I dont share that opinion. Of course I do. You pointing that out doesnt make you smart it means the argument went over your head. It's an appeal to Christians that I'm not saying "I personally think LGBT is icky"

I'm saying this is Christian doctrine. If we are interested in saving them from a corrupt mind, how do we(Christians) convince them that they are corrupt? If we love them then we(Christians) have an obligation to help them be approved by God. By definition, until they change their thinking, they cannot be approved of.

I'm simply making the point that these words(Gods words) have meaning. Pointing it out to Christian's that it isn't simply my opinion, but rather God's.

That wasn't an own by you. It was a strawman, because the actual argument went right over your head.

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LGBT people who grow up going to church generally stop caring about this by the end of high school, give or take a few years. We cannot "change our thinking", and it's pretty embarrassing that any adult would believe such a notion. Very few people view those such as yourself as having any sort of power or importance, so they neither want nor need your approval. You are a dying breed.

The OP's post did go over some heads here, since some are so eager to be offended by questions not directed at them, but at other Christian.

OPI think the church needs to really dig into how homosexual behavior is harmful to the body and the soul. For example, watching porn was all the rage in the 80 and 90's because people didn't understand how addictive and destructive it could be on the mind. The justification was that "it's not hurting anyone", etc. Today society recognizes that porn addiction is a serious problem and can alter your brain to perceive love as nothing but physical pleasure. That's a horrific outcome for people who do not know their significant other is a porn addict.

Similar to other unnatural things we do to our bodies, the spirit ultimately suffers.

A story: I know a man who walked the earth hundreds of years ago. At that time, the society in which he lived struggled with morality and ethnic prejudice. One afternoon, this man met a woman of a different ethnicity at a local watering hole. It was unusual to meet a woman by herself at the watering hole during the afternoon. Social norms would have the man not speak or interact with the woman. The man engaged in conversation with the woman. It surprised her. The conversation revealed that the woman had been married and divorced many times and was currently living with a man with whom she wasn't married. She was effectively shunned in society. The man genuinely cared for the woman and didn't demean her. However, he knew she wasn't living a fulfilled life. So, he gave her words of wisdom that could change her life forever. The man's friends were watching the encounter from a distance. They couldn't believe their friend was interacting with the woman. It was a teaching experience for them to model in the future. I'm not sure if the woman changed her lifestyle after this encounter, but I know that this man modeled how to speak Truth in a loving way to someone who was very different from HIM.

Sapper Redux said:

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There's research and evidence that has gone into the study of same-sex attraction. It's quite common across the world and in a variety of very different species. In other words, it's a natural, biological state of being, just as heterosexuality is. Your only response is words in your holy book which you aren't reading in the original language or original context, and ascribing meaning to them above any other aspect of life or reality. And the result is some pretty hateful, dehumanizing stuff.

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Would you like me to give the the original Greek because that is within my capacity. Here is a hint: The definitions are the same for all of the words. That's how they chose them.

Science is your religion and I can see you practice it blindly.

I see the negative consequences of accepting all lifestyles, and you'd have to be blind not to. I didn't come here to mense words on other topics. I primarily came for other Christians. We are getting off in the weeds and at this point you're so off topic you're just derailing.

Agilaw said:

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A story: I know a man who walked the earth hundreds of years ago. At that time, the society in which he lived struggled with morality and ethnic prejudice. One afternoon, this man met a woman of a different ethnicity at a local watering hole. It was unusual to meet a woman by herself at the watering hole during the afternoon. Social norms would have the man not speak or interact with the woman. The man engaged in conversation with the woman. It surprised her. The conversation revealed that the woman had been married and divorced many times and was currently living with a man with whom she wasn't married. She was effectively shunned in society. The man genuinely cared for the woman and didn't demean her. However, he knew she wasn't living a fulfilled life. So, he gave her words of wisdom that could change her life forever. The man's friends were watching the encounter from a distance. They couldn't believe their friend was interacting with the woman. It was a teaching experience for them to model in the future. I'm not sure if the woman changed her lifestyle after this encounter, but I know that this man modeled how to speak Truth in a loving way to someone who was very different from HIM.

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Let me start by saying I agree with you. Let's dig deeper though.

He did call her out and tell her that the man she was with she had no business being with. So I'm sure He made her uncomfortable. He didn't beat around the bush He directly told her she was living in sin.

It was quite amazing because He knew that without her telling Him. But I cannot miraculously tell somebody about their sin.

Capybara said:

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TxAgPreacher said:

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Beer Baron said:

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I have a book that says you're wicked. It's right there in the book that you're a deviant. I'd never say that, but sadly my book does. I wish you'd stop being the way you are because my book says you're the wrong way. I hope you'll change your ways and start living the way my book says you should.

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I'm saying I didn't come up with this opinion, and it's not simply an opinion. It's the word of God.

I was expecting Christian responses.

You're trying to make it seem like I dont share that opinion. Of course I do. You pointing that out doesnt make you smart it means the argument went over your head. It's an appeal to Christians that I'm not saying "I personally think LGBT is icky"

I'm saying this is Christian doctrine. If we are interested in saving them from a corrupt mind, how do we(Christians) convince them that they are corrupt? If we love them then we(Christians) have an obligation to help them be approved by God. By definition, until they change their thinking, they cannot be approved of.

I'm simply making the point that these words(Gods words) have meaning. Pointing it out to Christian's that it isn't simply my opinion, but rather God's.

That wasn't an own by you. It was a strawman, because the actual argument went right over your head.

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LGBT people who grow up going to church generally stop caring about this by the end of high school, give or take a few years. We cannot "change our thinking", and it's pretty embarrassing that any adult would believe such a notion. Very few people view those such as yourself as having any sort of power or importance, so they neither want nor need your approval. You are a dying breed.

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Read it again. I said God's approval.

TxAgPreacher said:

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Agilaw said:

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A story: I know a man who walked the earth hundreds of years ago. At that time, the society in which he lived struggled with morality and ethnic prejudice. One afternoon, this man met a woman of a different ethnicity at a local watering hole. It was unusual to meet a woman by herself at the watering hole during the afternoon. Social norms would have the man not speak or interact with the woman. The man engaged in conversation with the woman. It surprised her. The conversation revealed that the woman had been married and divorced many times and was currently living with a man with whom she wasn't married. She was effectively shunned in society. The man genuinely cared for the woman and didn't demean her. However, he knew she wasn't living a fulfilled life. So, he gave her words of wisdom that could change her life forever. The man's friends were watching the encounter from a distance. They couldn't believe their friend was interacting with the woman. It was a teaching experience for them to model in the future. I'm not sure if the woman changed her lifestyle after this encounter, but I know that this man modeled how to speak Truth in a loving way to someone who was very different from HIM.

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Let me start by saying I agree with you. Let's dig deeper though.

He did call her out and tell her that the man she was with she had no business being with. So I'm sure He made her uncomfortable. He didn't beat around the bush He directly told her she was living in sin.

It was quite amazing because He knew that without her telling him. But I cannot miraculously tell somebody about their sin.

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He also told her to sin no more. Which is ultimately what is being asked without condemnation of the groups that are making so much noise. Since they cannot deny their sin they deny that sin exists or that there could be a God to make these judgements.

Being accurate in what the scripture actually says is important. You originally asked "How do you convince someone...". You don't. That is not your job. As a preacher, you know who gets that task. But you are called to go and you are to speak truth. When you mention words like "call them out", you may have already hindered or closed the ears of the person to hear what you are saying (truth). Many times the delivery of the message is about as important as the message if you want the hearer to have open ears to hear.

I did misquote scripture. Catholic mistake mea culpa x3

However, are you suggesting that Christ doesn't tell all sinners to go and sin no more? Regardless of the situation that is always the result, Our Lord applies justice equally. One has to repent.

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I'm genuinely trying to start a conversation on how we reach the lost

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And yet you completely discount anything actual allegedly "lost" people say about how the way you speak to them and about them comes off. It's like we're some abstract problem for you to fix and not actual people with our own minds, thoughts, feelings, etc.

TxAgPreacher said:

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Beer Baron said:

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I'm genuinely trying to start a conversation on how we reach the lost

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And yet you completely discount anything actual allegedly "lost" people say about how the way you speak to them and about them comes off. It's like we're some abstract problem for you to fix and not actual people with our own minds, thoughts, feelings, etc.

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I'm not autistic I promise.

Jokes aside, I came in good faith. They were the ones coming in hot. The scripture says what it says. We can try to sugar coat it, but we cannot water it down. Hence the problem.

Don't you realize I said that in OP? I already knew the way it comes off. It's not even the way I come of, which I know is abrasive at times. It's just how people react the the bible. Even when I post the word of God with no comment they are often equally offended.

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Many people who leave Christianity altogether don't respect what the scripture says for various reasons, and the three main ones that come to mind are: 1) they don't believe it is the word of God, 2) they don't particularly care if it is the word of God, or 3) they don't believe in God.

If the Bible is truly the word of the one true God, then I and many others will accept our fates. You cannot force celibacy on free people, and those who are involuntarily celibate (incels) act out their frustrations in destructive ways. It is extremely naive for you to think you have, or even should have, any sort of power over the sexual behaviors of other people.

Has it ever occurred to you that people take issue with your message because they believe you use the Bible to exert power over others? Those who are strong-willed don't respect people like you. Good luck with your goal of trying to change sexual behavior as you (again you, not "God") desire.