God is a Man of War- Book Report

2,582 Views | 39 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by Bryanisbest
Infection_Ag11
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AG
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It's not stripped of glitz and glamor, it's incorrect.


Feel free to dissect out the error

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Ignorance of the world around you doesn't make you illogical.


Sure it can. If one fundamentally misunderstands the nature of reality, as essentially everyone 3000 years ago did, the conclusions you will draw will often be fundamentally illogical to those who later better understand that reality.

For example, if you have no idea how old or big the world is and how many billions of people will eventually live and die without ever even hearing about your supernatural claims, claiming that everyone who doesn't believe as you do has nobody to blame but themselves makes a lot more sense. In the context of our modern understanding of history and reality it's nonsensical however. You have to argue that god sat with his arms crossed for 197,000 years or so of human existence and then decided it was a good time to pop in and reveal himself to a society that even by the standards of the time was backwards and underdeveloped. Nobody would ever actually argue that of course, but it's de facto what billions of people believe whether they realize it or acknowledge it.
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fat girlfriend
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Complicated theology is a mask meant to distract from the reality that the claims are unbelievable at face value.
Ha! That's so stupid it almost hurts.

"Complicated quantum theory is a mask meant to distract from the reality that the claims are unbelievable as face value."
fat girlfriend
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So an omnipotent and omnipresent being, who never needed us to begin with

Need is not the only reason to create. God is joyful creator, and he created the universe out of that joy. It's an amazing place!


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created us knowing he would then regret doing so

Christians are split on this. Open Theists think God only knows the "closed" parts of the future, not the "open" part. The open parts are the parts that aren't yet set, and are therefore free in relation to our will. Traditional theists think God does know everything we're going to do. I side with the second group, but I think talking abut God's regret is the right way to talk. If I say "My computer is not moving right now," I am saying something true. This is because, relative to our position on earth, it isn't moving. Of course, relative to some other place (say, the moon), the computer is moving. But that's okay. That's not the context that sets our speech. From God's place in eternity, it isn't true that he regretted making us. But that's not a problem. That's not the context that we're speaking from. Relative to our position in time, it's just as true to say that God regretted making humans as it is to say that the computer isn't moving,


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and that we would do unspeakable acts of evil (and evil by the definition he himself set our mind you). And he also knew, again before he ever did it in the first place, that our creation would require him to send himself to earth to be murdered by the Romans thousands of years later

This is correct (except for your parenthetical - God doesn't generally arbitrarily set the definition of evil; he simply is Goodness itself. That which is bad is bad because it fails to manifest his goodness in some way appropriate to the kind of thing it is. But put that aside.) Why would God create knowing the evil we would do and the price he would have to pay to redeem us? Well, because it's only way he can create a community of loving persons who freely choose to love God and, through his power, become the kind of people who can live in a community of powerful and free loving persons who cooperatively create and live together in his image. It's going to be an amazing community!


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…and that this act would still be ignored by the vast majority of humans who ever lived (most because they never heard about it) who would all end up in hell anyway.
I hope you're wrong about that. Some Christians think you are. Some even think everyone will ultimately end up in the community God is in the process of building. I tend to think that's a mistake. For those who refuse to become the kind of people who can enjoy living in that kind of community, God will let them have their way.
Zobel
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AG
The error is conclusion, that the vast majority of humans who ever lived would all end up in hell anyway. Since that's the premise of not only the summary but also the subsequent conclusion, it's all nonsense.

Second you're kind of crawfishing now. You said that the ancients were logically inconsistent because of their limited understanding of nature, now you're saying that their limited understanding led to poor conclusions. You can be perfectly rational with limited evidence, and come to the wrong conclusion.

However it should also be noted that you have a limited understanding of reality, and there's no way to know whether your ignorance is functionally better or worse than theirs. If you can imagine the totality of knowledge being mapped out with the surface area (or volume, whatever) representing knowledge, it's totally conceivable that gains in one area don't preclude losses in others. Without a doubt our modern understanding of natural phenomena is increasing day by day, and dwarfs that of even one hundred years ago. The problem is you don't know how many dimensions to include in that assessment, and modern materialism takes it as an axiomatic position that there is in fact only one. Even so, it's unknowable how large the surface to be mapped is, and our knowledge on the perfect scale may be as bad by comparison as the stone age is to ours. Unless you're willing to accept that you, too, are both ignorant (and therefore illogical?) the whole thing is a kind of ridiculous arrogance.


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For example, if you have no idea how old or big the world is and how many billions of people will eventually live and die without ever even hearing about your supernatural claims, claiming that everyone who doesn't believe as you do has nobody to blame but themselves makes a lot more sense. In the context of our modern understanding of history and reality it's nonsensical however. You have to argue that god sat with his arms crossed for 197,000 years or so of human existence and then decided it was a good time to pop in and reveal himself to a society that even by the standards of the time was backwards and underdeveloped. Nobody would ever actually argue that of course, but it's de facto what billions of people believe whether they realize it or acknowledge it.
Nothing in Christian belief is predicated on the number of people who have lived or will live, and again you're inventing straw men which have errors because of your basic ignorance of Christian faith. It is not correct that God did not reveal Himself to people at any time. In fact the scriptures say quite the opposite.

Bryanisbest
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AG
Without the revelation of Christ crucified, people who read Moses and the Old Testament have a veil over their eyes, blinded by Satan. 2 Cor 3:13 through 2 Cor 4:6. Blinded to what? Blinded to the revelation of Christ as to the true character of His Father in Heaven. "Lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, WHO IS THE IMAGE OF GOD, should shine unto them." "If you have seen me (Jesus), you have seen my Father." John 14:9.

To rightly divide the Old Testament scripture (2Tim 2:15) is to discern what God is doing and what the great Deceiver is doing in the Old Testament. To "rightly divide" is the same as when God divided the darkness from the light in Gen 1.

The Old Testament is a ministry of death and condemnation while the New Testament is a ministry of true righteousness and the ministry of the Spirit which is more glorious. Satan is the real accuser and condemnor who steals, kills and destroys. Christ came to declare or explain His Father (John 1:17-18) and to begin a life-giving ministry. 1 Cor 15:45; John 10:10.

This is why, in John 8, Jesus told the Pharisees, the religionists based on the Old Testament, "You are of your father the devil. He was a murderer from the beginning." Gen 3 and 4. As students of the Old Testament, the Pharisees were sure God was their father. Jesus told them that if God was their father they wouldn't be trying to kill Him, that they would rather love Him. Because Jesus' Father is a lover, not a killer.

Was that God who tried to kill Moses right after Moses set out to do what "God" had asked him to do. Ex 4:24. No, that was the murderer, deceiver, killer god, Satan. God is love. He doesn't try to kill people for doing what He asks them to do. Right division is the way you discern this.

The Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (New Testament) has freed us from the law of sin and death (Old Testament). Rom 8:2. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth. Rom 10:4.

No one knows the Father except those to whom Jesus chooses to reveal Him. Luke 10:22-24.

Satan's great deception is that he is God so that he can sit in the Temple as God. 2 Thes 2:3-12; Isaiah 14:12-14; Ezekiel 28:2.

Before Jesus came the whole world sat in darkness. Luke 1:79.
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