I know quite a few folks that used to attend church regularly before COVID started, but now skip church using COVID as the excuse. They won't go to church, but continue to go to work, the grocery store, etc. Guess they were looking for an excuse to come along. Just an observation.
Church Attendance and the COVID Excuse
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Last: 2 yr ago by SteveA
Wrangler said:
I know quite a few folks that used to attend church regularly before COVID started, but now skip church using COVID as the excuse. They won't go to church, but continue to go to work, the grocery store, etc. Guess they were looking for an excuse to come along. Just an observation.
Pretty sure it's hard to eat without a job and without getting groceries. I'm not sure standing indoors in often poorly ventilated buildings while dozens of people sing at the top of their lungs is the definition of caution.
Over 90% of US adults between 50 and 64 are vaccinated. 82% of adults between 40 and 50 are. Very, very high number of folks have had this thing recently (literally almost everyone I know). And then there are those who don't believe you need a vax at all.Wrangler said:
I know quite a few folks that used to attend church regularly before COVID started, but now skip church using COVID as the excuse. They won't go to church, but continue to go to work, the grocery store, etc. Guess they were looking for an excuse to come along. Just an observation.
Other than immunocompromised folk, or perhaps those with a whole bunch of other issues - I would argue that the virus is becoming a poor excuse to miss on Sunday.
Unless you're in a very at risk group at this point (that can't get the vaccine), this is the very definition of living in fear.Sapper Redux said:Wrangler said:
I know quite a few folks that used to attend church regularly before COVID started, but now skip church using COVID as the excuse. They won't go to church, but continue to go to work, the grocery store, etc. Guess they were looking for an excuse to come along. Just an observation.
Pretty sure it's hard to eat without a job and without getting groceries. I'm not sure standing indoors in often poorly ventilated buildings while dozens of people sing at the top of their lungs is the definition of caution.
To the original comments.... my diocese just reinstated the Sunday mass 'obligation'. I think it will take a long time (if ever) to get attendance back to where it was. Too many people have gotten comfortable not going to church for it to change soon.
RAB91 said:Unless you're in a very at risk group at this point (that can't get the vaccine), this is the very definition of living in fear.Sapper Redux said:Wrangler said:
I know quite a few folks that used to attend church regularly before COVID started, but now skip church using COVID as the excuse. They won't go to church, but continue to go to work, the grocery store, etc. Guess they were looking for an excuse to come along. Just an observation.
Pretty sure it's hard to eat without a job and without getting groceries. I'm not sure standing indoors in often poorly ventilated buildings while dozens of people sing at the top of their lungs is the definition of caution.
To the original comments.... my diocese just reinstated the Sunday mass 'obligation'. I think it will take a long time (if ever) to get attendance back to where it was. Too many people have gotten comfortable not going to church for it to change soon.
Why do you only focus on the individuals? They may not be comfortable with the idea of spreading the virus to people who still have to do things like work and shop but are immunocompromised or at greater risk. And there seems to be zero consideration of transmission from a lot of people. It's all about, "If I am going to catch it, will I be okay?"
There's a difference between caution and fear. Refusing to go to work or get groceries at this point may fit under "living in fear." But not feeling comfortable singing in a crowded church with the virus still killing hundreds a day, seems more a move out of caution.
I think Churches where the focus is the eucharist will see attendance come back stronger than churches that focus more on the sermon. Just my opinion.
I guess time will tell on if Catholics return to church in larger numbers, but from what I saw in polling during COVID, Evangelicals still go to church more.
OP, have you reached out to those you notice are not going? I think it is upon us to reach out to people like that and encourage them to come back. To share with them why we go to church. I don't go to church because COVID is over and it is safe again, but because it is essential to me. Many fought against the COVID restrictions on gathering for church because we need church. Sure, I can receive teaching over a podcast or the TV, but I don't get the direct encouragement, I don't experience communion, my soul isn't refreshed in joining together with my brothers and sisters in singing praise to God. We need to share that with our brothers and sisters who haven't returned that it is essential for us to gather together as the body of Christ.
And let us consider one another in order to provoke love and good works, not neglecting to gather together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging each other, and all the more as you see the day approaching.
OP, have you reached out to those you notice are not going? I think it is upon us to reach out to people like that and encourage them to come back. To share with them why we go to church. I don't go to church because COVID is over and it is safe again, but because it is essential to me. Many fought against the COVID restrictions on gathering for church because we need church. Sure, I can receive teaching over a podcast or the TV, but I don't get the direct encouragement, I don't experience communion, my soul isn't refreshed in joining together with my brothers and sisters in singing praise to God. We need to share that with our brothers and sisters who haven't returned that it is essential for us to gather together as the body of Christ.
And let us consider one another in order to provoke love and good works, not neglecting to gather together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging each other, and all the more as you see the day approaching.
Baloney.RAB91 said:Unless you're in a very at risk group at this point (that can't get the vaccine), this is the very definition of living in fear.Sapper Redux said:Wrangler said:
I know quite a few folks that used to attend church regularly before COVID started, but now skip church using COVID as the excuse. They won't go to church, but continue to go to work, the grocery store, etc. Guess they were looking for an excuse to come along. Just an observation.
Pretty sure it's hard to eat without a job and without getting groceries. I'm not sure standing indoors in often poorly ventilated buildings while dozens of people sing at the top of their lungs is the definition of caution.
To the original comments.... my diocese just reinstated the Sunday mass 'obligation'. I think it will take a long time (if ever) to get attendance back to where it was. Too many people have gotten comfortable not going to church for it to change soon.
Friday, I think it was, we had over 3000 covid deaths in the US. That's a 9/11.
And not just using the death metric, how about people that don't get time off but have to leave their job because they're positive. That's 5 days, best case. That's a full week's paycheck. I can't believe some people don't get this.
I agree with the bolded part. We just disagree where that line is at. I guess people who live in this state of fear can just continue to stay home. I do feel bad though for the kids of these types of parents.Sapper Redux said:RAB91 said:Unless you're in a very at risk group at this point (that can't get the vaccine), this is the very definition of living in fear.Sapper Redux said:Wrangler said:
I know quite a few folks that used to attend church regularly before COVID started, but now skip church using COVID as the excuse. They won't go to church, but continue to go to work, the grocery store, etc. Guess they were looking for an excuse to come along. Just an observation.
Pretty sure it's hard to eat without a job and without getting groceries. I'm not sure standing indoors in often poorly ventilated buildings while dozens of people sing at the top of their lungs is the definition of caution.
To the original comments.... my diocese just reinstated the Sunday mass 'obligation'. I think it will take a long time (if ever) to get attendance back to where it was. Too many people have gotten comfortable not going to church for it to change soon.
Why do you only focus on the individuals? They may not be comfortable with the idea of spreading the virus to people who still have to do things like work and shop but are immunocompromised or at greater risk. And there seems to be zero consideration of transmission from a lot of people. It's all about, "If I am going to catch it, will I be okay?"
There's a difference between caution and fear. Refusing to go to work or get groceries at this point may fit under "living in fear." But not feeling comfortable singing in a crowded church with the virus still killing hundreds a day, seems more a move out of caution.
Our mass this morning was about the same as its been the last couple of months. I'm guessing it is a wash between the new people coming back and the ones staying away with the latest variant.
At this point it's mostly because they don't want to go to church.
Sporting events and concerts are pretty much normal again.
Sporting events and concerts are pretty much normal again.
Quote:
I think Churches where the focus is the eucharist will see attendance come back stronger than churches that focus more on the sermon. Just my opinion.
That should be logical. One is teaching the necessity of the Eucharist and the only way to get it is to show up. The other doesn't have this restriction.
Quote:
At this point it's mostly because they don't want to go to church.
That's kinda the point, no? Maybe they are problem...or maybe the church is the problem or maybe the congregants of that church are the problem.
I don't know what level of connection the OP has to the folks he knows, but isn't it on us go after the 1? I don't know that judging from afar is what we are supposed to do.
Wasn't trying to be judgemental in my statement. I just don't believe the lack of attendance is people being cautious about COVID, they've simply stopped coming because they don't want to. We as the church should definitely take notice and do what we can to better communicate the Gospel and create disciples.
Macarthur said:Baloney.RAB91 said:Unless you're in a very at risk group at this point (that can't get the vaccine), this is the very definition of living in fear.Sapper Redux said:Wrangler said:
I know quite a few folks that used to attend church regularly before COVID started, but now skip church using COVID as the excuse. They won't go to church, but continue to go to work, the grocery store, etc. Guess they were looking for an excuse to come along. Just an observation.
Pretty sure it's hard to eat without a job and without getting groceries. I'm not sure standing indoors in often poorly ventilated buildings while dozens of people sing at the top of their lungs is the definition of caution.
To the original comments.... my diocese just reinstated the Sunday mass 'obligation'. I think it will take a long time (if ever) to get attendance back to where it was. Too many people have gotten comfortable not going to church for it to change soon.
Friday, I think it was, we had over 3000 covid deaths in the US. That's a 9/11.
And not just using the death metric, how about people that don't get time off but have to leave their job because they're positive. That's 5 days, best case. That's a full week's paycheck. I can't believe some people don't get this.
So we'll engage with this sentiment seriously. What should the death count be below before we can resume life as normal? What should these extreme immunocompromised people who will die from any given virus out there wait for in order to return? Or for us to feel like we're protecting them adequately that we can all return to life as normal?
Give us benchmarks, give us a workable goal.
Macarthur said:Baloney.RAB91 said:Unless you're in a very at risk group at this point (that can't get the vaccine), this is the very definition of living in fear.Sapper Redux said:Wrangler said:
I know quite a few folks that used to attend church regularly before COVID started, but now skip church using COVID as the excuse. They won't go to church, but continue to go to work, the grocery store, etc. Guess they were looking for an excuse to come along. Just an observation.
Pretty sure it's hard to eat without a job and without getting groceries. I'm not sure standing indoors in often poorly ventilated buildings while dozens of people sing at the top of their lungs is the definition of caution.
To the original comments.... my diocese just reinstated the Sunday mass 'obligation'. I think it will take a long time (if ever) to get attendance back to where it was. Too many people have gotten comfortable not going to church for it to change soon.
Friday, I think it was, we had over 3000 covid deaths in the US. That's a 9/11.
And not just using the death metric, how about people that don't get time off but have to leave their job because they're positive. That's 5 days, best case. That's a full week's paycheck. I can't believe some people don't get this.
How many of those were 80+ with 4 or more co comorbidities? CDC says 75+%. They didn't tell us the other 25%. Probably older with three or more of I had to guess.
Flu kills a lot of people this time of year every year.
You can sell fear. Most aren't buying.
Frok said:
Wasn't trying to be judgemental in my statement. I just don't believe the lack of attendance is people being cautious about COVID, they've simply stopped coming because they don't want to. We as the church should definitely take notice and do what we can to better communicate the Gospel and create disciples.
My opinion is that it's both/and, not and/or. I know folks that aren't coming due to Covid and truly are concerned (For most folks I don't agree with this but it's their choice!), and then I also know folks who have simply fallen away due to dispensations and don't see a need to go to church anymore.
I am working to suppress the base urge to "look down" on the latter folks, they are in need of evangelizing as much as anyone. It feels like backsliding having to bring back folks who were once consistent, but I will pray that it'll result in a church that will be forged even stronger.
CrackerJackAg said:Macarthur said:Baloney.RAB91 said:Unless you're in a very at risk group at this point (that can't get the vaccine), this is the very definition of living in fear.Sapper Redux said:Wrangler said:
I know quite a few folks that used to attend church regularly before COVID started, but now skip church using COVID as the excuse. They won't go to church, but continue to go to work, the grocery store, etc. Guess they were looking for an excuse to come along. Just an observation.
Pretty sure it's hard to eat without a job and without getting groceries. I'm not sure standing indoors in often poorly ventilated buildings while dozens of people sing at the top of their lungs is the definition of caution.
To the original comments.... my diocese just reinstated the Sunday mass 'obligation'. I think it will take a long time (if ever) to get attendance back to where it was. Too many people have gotten comfortable not going to church for it to change soon.
Friday, I think it was, we had over 3000 covid deaths in the US. That's a 9/11.
And not just using the death metric, how about people that don't get time off but have to leave their job because they're positive. That's 5 days, best case. That's a full week's paycheck. I can't believe some people don't get this.
How many of those were 80+ with 4 or more co comorbidities? CDC says 75+%. They didn't tell us the other 25%. Probably older with three or more of I had to guess.
Flu kills a lot of people this time of year every year.
You can sell fear. Most aren't buying.
Flu doesn't kill this many people unless you're dealing with a 1918-level virus. It's amazing how quickly people who want churches full are willing to discount the actual people who are supposed to fill those churches.
Sapper Redux said:CrackerJackAg said:Macarthur said:Baloney.RAB91 said:Unless you're in a very at risk group at this point (that can't get the vaccine), this is the very definition of living in fear.Sapper Redux said:Wrangler said:
I know quite a few folks that used to attend church regularly before COVID started, but now skip church using COVID as the excuse. They won't go to church, but continue to go to work, the grocery store, etc. Guess they were looking for an excuse to come along. Just an observation.
Pretty sure it's hard to eat without a job and without getting groceries. I'm not sure standing indoors in often poorly ventilated buildings while dozens of people sing at the top of their lungs is the definition of caution.
To the original comments.... my diocese just reinstated the Sunday mass 'obligation'. I think it will take a long time (if ever) to get attendance back to where it was. Too many people have gotten comfortable not going to church for it to change soon.
Friday, I think it was, we had over 3000 covid deaths in the US. That's a 9/11.
And not just using the death metric, how about people that don't get time off but have to leave their job because they're positive. That's 5 days, best case. That's a full week's paycheck. I can't believe some people don't get this.
How many of those were 80+ with 4 or more co comorbidities? CDC says 75+%. They didn't tell us the other 25%. Probably older with three or more of I had to guess.
Flu kills a lot of people this time of year every year.
You can sell fear. Most aren't buying.
Flu doesn't kill this many people unless you're dealing with a 1918-level virus. It's amazing how quickly people who want churches full are willing to discount the actual people who are supposed to fill those churches.
We're not discounting anyone, we just live in different worlds. Conservative aging congregations were beating down the doors to open back up after a week or two. Liberal ones are still mask on / mask off and shutting down with flare ups while telling people to watch from home. And there are big ones stuck in the middle but even those seem to stratify as I know of one with a mask required service while the rest are wide open.
Edit: The individual approach where people do what they're comfortable with allows them most flourishing. The other approach of fear and caution takes hostages of those who are healthy and willing.
Some people need spiritual food. Others do not.Sapper Redux said:Wrangler said:
I know quite a few folks that used to attend church regularly before COVID started, but now skip church using COVID as the excuse. They won't go to church, but continue to go to work, the grocery store, etc. Guess they were looking for an excuse to come along. Just an observation.
Pretty sure it's hard to eat without a job and without getting groceries. I'm not sure standing indoors in often poorly ventilated buildings while dozens of people sing at the top of their lungs is the definition of caution.
That 75% number for those with "4 or more comorbidities" was for vaccinated patients, and not just COVID patients in general. The point is that among vaccinated, it's really only those who have a host of other significant issues that are the ones dying.Quote:
How many of those were 80+ with 4 or more co comorbidities? CDC says 75+%. They didn't tell us the other 25%. Probably older with three or more of I had to guess.
Quote:
Wasn't trying to be judgemental in my statement. I just don't believe the lack of attendance is people being cautious about COVID, they've simply stopped coming because they don't want to. We as the church should definitely take notice and do what we can to better communicate the Gospel and create disciples.
I agree that you werent, nor do I think you were doing so unintentionally.
I think its more on the OP, where the line from "just an observation" moves to judgement when we add "Guess they were looking for an excuse to come along".
AGC said:Sapper Redux said:CrackerJackAg said:Macarthur said:Baloney.RAB91 said:Unless you're in a very at risk group at this point (that can't get the vaccine), this is the very definition of living in fear.Sapper Redux said:Wrangler said:
I know quite a few folks that used to attend church regularly before COVID started, but now skip church using COVID as the excuse. They won't go to church, but continue to go to work, the grocery store, etc. Guess they were looking for an excuse to come along. Just an observation.
Pretty sure it's hard to eat without a job and without getting groceries. I'm not sure standing indoors in often poorly ventilated buildings while dozens of people sing at the top of their lungs is the definition of caution.
To the original comments.... my diocese just reinstated the Sunday mass 'obligation'. I think it will take a long time (if ever) to get attendance back to where it was. Too many people have gotten comfortable not going to church for it to change soon.
Friday, I think it was, we had over 3000 covid deaths in the US. That's a 9/11.
And not just using the death metric, how about people that don't get time off but have to leave their job because they're positive. That's 5 days, best case. That's a full week's paycheck. I can't believe some people don't get this.
How many of those were 80+ with 4 or more co comorbidities? CDC says 75+%. They didn't tell us the other 25%. Probably older with three or more of I had to guess.
Flu kills a lot of people this time of year every year.
You can sell fear. Most aren't buying.
Flu doesn't kill this many people unless you're dealing with a 1918-level virus. It's amazing how quickly people who want churches full are willing to discount the actual people who are supposed to fill those churches.
We're not discounting anyone, we just live in different worlds. Conservative aging congregations were beating down the doors to open back up after a week or two. Liberal ones are still mask on / mask off and shutting down with flare ups while telling people to watch from home. And there are big ones stuck in the middle but even those seem to stratify as I know of one with a mask required service while the rest are wide open.
Edit: The individual approach where people do what they're comfortable with allows them most flourishing. The other approach of fear and caution takes hostages of those who are healthy and willing.
The individual approach seems to ignore how viruses and other pathogens spread.
You do realize Friday we had well over 3000 covid deaths? That's a 9/11 everyday. The most flu kills in a day would be somewhere around 300. We average somewhere around 30k flu deaths a year. The two are not the same and anytime someone tries to make a Covid argument with the flu, it is and should be a complete tune out because it shows the person is either being willfully ignorant or lying.CrackerJackAg said:Macarthur said:Baloney.RAB91 said:Unless you're in a very at risk group at this point (that can't get the vaccine), this is the very definition of living in fear.Sapper Redux said:Wrangler said:
I know quite a few folks that used to attend church regularly before COVID started, but now skip church using COVID as the excuse. They won't go to church, but continue to go to work, the grocery store, etc. Guess they were looking for an excuse to come along. Just an observation.
Pretty sure it's hard to eat without a job and without getting groceries. I'm not sure standing indoors in often poorly ventilated buildings while dozens of people sing at the top of their lungs is the definition of caution.
To the original comments.... my diocese just reinstated the Sunday mass 'obligation'. I think it will take a long time (if ever) to get attendance back to where it was. Too many people have gotten comfortable not going to church for it to change soon.
Friday, I think it was, we had over 3000 covid deaths in the US. That's a 9/11.
And not just using the death metric, how about people that don't get time off but have to leave their job because they're positive. That's 5 days, best case. That's a full week's paycheck. I can't believe some people don't get this.
How many of those were 80+ with 4 or more co comorbidities? CDC says 75+%. They didn't tell us the other 25%. Probably older with three or more of I had to guess.
Flu kills a lot of people this time of year every year.
You can sell fear. Most aren't buying.
And the comorbidity argument always strikes me as weird, too. So those folks deserve to be sacrificed at the alter of my convenience and lifestyle? At what point did we, as Americans, stop giving a S about our fellow Ameriicans?
After some Ahole Saudis killed 3000 Americans, we spent 20 years at war, lost 2500 American Soldiers, 20,000 injured American soldiers, killed about 500k people and wasted trillions of dollars. Now, we have a 9/11 every day or two and some are losing their minds because they are inconvenienced.
Quote:
I am working to suppress the base urge to "look down" on the latter folks, they are in need of evangelizing as much as anyone. It feels like backsliding having to bring back folks who were once consistent, but I will pray that it'll result in a church that will be forged even stronger.
I have found it helpful to realize just how far short of the bar I personally fall in regards to the standards that Christs sets. We see in the Parable of the Good Samaritan the level that we are expected to love our neighbor as ourselves.
I think we can overvalue our attendance in church as if we don't need the same evangelization.
Sapper Redux said:AGC said:Sapper Redux said:CrackerJackAg said:Macarthur said:Baloney.RAB91 said:Unless you're in a very at risk group at this point (that can't get the vaccine), this is the very definition of living in fear.Sapper Redux said:Wrangler said:
I know quite a few folks that used to attend church regularly before COVID started, but now skip church using COVID as the excuse. They won't go to church, but continue to go to work, the grocery store, etc. Guess they were looking for an excuse to come along. Just an observation.
Pretty sure it's hard to eat without a job and without getting groceries. I'm not sure standing indoors in often poorly ventilated buildings while dozens of people sing at the top of their lungs is the definition of caution.
To the original comments.... my diocese just reinstated the Sunday mass 'obligation'. I think it will take a long time (if ever) to get attendance back to where it was. Too many people have gotten comfortable not going to church for it to change soon.
Friday, I think it was, we had over 3000 covid deaths in the US. That's a 9/11.
And not just using the death metric, how about people that don't get time off but have to leave their job because they're positive. That's 5 days, best case. That's a full week's paycheck. I can't believe some people don't get this.
How many of those were 80+ with 4 or more co comorbidities? CDC says 75+%. They didn't tell us the other 25%. Probably older with three or more of I had to guess.
Flu kills a lot of people this time of year every year.
You can sell fear. Most aren't buying.
Flu doesn't kill this many people unless you're dealing with a 1918-level virus. It's amazing how quickly people who want churches full are willing to discount the actual people who are supposed to fill those churches.
We're not discounting anyone, we just live in different worlds. Conservative aging congregations were beating down the doors to open back up after a week or two. Liberal ones are still mask on / mask off and shutting down with flare ups while telling people to watch from home. And there are big ones stuck in the middle but even those seem to stratify as I know of one with a mask required service while the rest are wide open.
Edit: The individual approach where people do what they're comfortable with allows them most flourishing. The other approach of fear and caution takes hostages of those who are healthy and willing.
The individual approach seems to ignore how viruses and other pathogens spread.
Only for those who live in a bubble. You don't. You know better. I could trot out the COVID polling which shows quite clearly the disconnect between actual risk and perceived risk. The perceived risk, especially for young people, was multiples higher but they now live in the fearful environment that's been created rather than getting the virus through normal interaction and being safer than those with only the jab. What's been done to them with the constant death counts is a travesty and it continues unabated this thread with 9/11 comparisons. We shouldn't have taken hostages and we need to stop doing it.
Edit: Immunocompromised people are always at risk and I say that as someone with a relative who has a rare autoimmune disease. I monitor my own health and that of my family for him but we need robust immune systems to protect them which doesn't come from locking society up.
We long for the day atheists let us know when we can go back to church.Sapper Redux said:Wrangler said:
I know quite a few folks that used to attend church regularly before COVID started, but now skip church using COVID as the excuse. They won't go to church, but continue to go to work, the grocery store, etc. Guess they were looking for an excuse to come along. Just an observation.
Pretty sure it's hard to eat without a job and without getting groceries. I'm not sure standing indoors in often poorly ventilated buildings while dozens of people sing at the top of their lungs is the definition of caution.
Please give us a benchmark, a measure of success. When is it ok to go back to life as it was throughout human history? We can talk death stats all day long. What's the goal?
Wow, I'm impressed with your commitment to the cause.
Coronaviruses are seasonal, btw, so it will be fading now that herd immunity is essentially reached over the next 60-90 days throughout the northern hemisphere.
Coronaviruses are seasonal, btw, so it will be fading now that herd immunity is essentially reached over the next 60-90 days throughout the northern hemisphere.
AGC said:Sapper Redux said:AGC said:Sapper Redux said:CrackerJackAg said:Macarthur said:Baloney.RAB91 said:Unless you're in a very at risk group at this point (that can't get the vaccine), this is the very definition of living in fear.Sapper Redux said:Wrangler said:
I know quite a few folks that used to attend church regularly before COVID started, but now skip church using COVID as the excuse. They won't go to church, but continue to go to work, the grocery store, etc. Guess they were looking for an excuse to come along. Just an observation.
Pretty sure it's hard to eat without a job and without getting groceries. I'm not sure standing indoors in often poorly ventilated buildings while dozens of people sing at the top of their lungs is the definition of caution.
To the original comments.... my diocese just reinstated the Sunday mass 'obligation'. I think it will take a long time (if ever) to get attendance back to where it was. Too many people have gotten comfortable not going to church for it to change soon.
Friday, I think it was, we had over 3000 covid deaths in the US. That's a 9/11.
And not just using the death metric, how about people that don't get time off but have to leave their job because they're positive. That's 5 days, best case. That's a full week's paycheck. I can't believe some people don't get this.
How many of those were 80+ with 4 or more co comorbidities? CDC says 75+%. They didn't tell us the other 25%. Probably older with three or more of I had to guess.
Flu kills a lot of people this time of year every year.
You can sell fear. Most aren't buying.
Flu doesn't kill this many people unless you're dealing with a 1918-level virus. It's amazing how quickly people who want churches full are willing to discount the actual people who are supposed to fill those churches.
We're not discounting anyone, we just live in different worlds. Conservative aging congregations were beating down the doors to open back up after a week or two. Liberal ones are still mask on / mask off and shutting down with flare ups while telling people to watch from home. And there are big ones stuck in the middle but even those seem to stratify as I know of one with a mask required service while the rest are wide open.
Edit: The individual approach where people do what they're comfortable with allows them most flourishing. The other approach of fear and caution takes hostages of those who are healthy and willing.
The individual approach seems to ignore how viruses and other pathogens spread.
Only for those who live in a bubble. You don't. You know better. I could trot out the COVID polling which shows quite clearly the disconnect between actual risk and perceived risk. The perceived risk, especially for young people, was multiples higher but they now live in the fearful environment that's been created rather than getting the virus through normal interaction and being safer than those with only the jab. What's been done to them with the constant death counts is a travesty and it continues unabated this thread with 9/11 comparisons. We shouldn't have taken hostages and we need to stop doing it.
Edit: Immunocompromised people are always at risk and I say that as someone with a relative who has a rare autoimmune disease. I monitor my own health and that of my family for him but we need robust immune systems to protect them which doesn't come from locking society up.
I have kids and I'm around young people all the time. I think they understand Covid quite well. What they understand is that while Covid is highly unlikely to affect them, it could really be awful for their sick parents or grandparents, and I think they are on board with the public health implications and doing their part to help.
Who I think the problem group is the middle aged, spoiled Karens and Kyles that simply can't have their life inconvenienced.
AGC said:
Please give us a benchmark, a measure of success. When is it ok to go back to life as it was throughout human history? We can talk death stats all day long. What's the goal?
This is the really weird thing, to me.
What exactly is going on in your life that isn't 'normal'? I go to restaurants (not as often as I used to but that's a choice). I go to the movies (again not as often). I'm going to a concert next week.
nortex97 said:
Wow, I'm impressed with your commitment to the cause.
Coronaviruses are seasonal, btw, so it will be fading now that herd immunity is essentially reached over the next 60-90 days throughout the northern hemisphere.
Not sure what you're getting at, but yes, it does appear we are going to get at herd immunity. It only took us almost 1 million deaths to get there. And countless long covid scenarios that we still don't fully know the ramifications.
BTW, the covid deaths for last week was just over 15k.
Impossible. I was assured that covid was over and that covid is a "weak ass virus"
Macarthur said:nortex97 said:
Wow, I'm impressed with your commitment to the cause.
Coronaviruses are seasonal, btw, so it will be fading now that herd immunity is essentially reached over the next 60-90 days throughout the northern hemisphere.
Not sure what you're getting at, but yes, it does appear we are going to get at herd immunity. It only took us almost 1 million deaths to get there. And countless long covid scenarios that we still don't fully know the ramifications.
The problem is that due to how contagious it is, how easily it mutates and how our immune system typically treats Coronaviruses, Covid Herd Immunity is going to be a lot closer to Flu herd immunity than Chickenpox herd immunity.
Good point.
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