Pastors pushing the Covid fear

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Guy on a Buffalo
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9:12a, 1/4/22
AG
I've heard sermons in the past two weeks (from different churches) where the preacher referenced Covid cases "ramping up" again. Every time we acknowledge the media narrative we are feeding people's fears, whether or not that is the intention.

True faith in the face of fear is what needs to be preached, not tacitly giving air time to more reasons for reservation. The church needs to lead now as they did in the times of plagues of the past - be bold, be fearless, trust in God. Don't allow man's fears to prevent you from being the body of Christ to the world.

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Truth without love is brutality. Love without truth is compromise.
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Rocag
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9:30a, 1/4/22
AG
I can see how you would approve of teaching fearlessness, but do you think teaching recklessness is virtuous as well? Where do you draw the line between the two?
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Martin Q. Blank
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In reply to Guy on a Buffalo • 9:43a, 1/4/22

Quote:
True faith in the face of fear
True faith in what? That I won't get sick and die from going to church?

Why is in-person church attendance so important? Can't I worship at home?

I think Christians are having a hard time formulating answers to these questions which is why church attendance is down 20-50%.
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jrico2727
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9:59a, 1/4/22
AG
The phrase do not be afraid appears in scripture like 365 times.

The Lie that was pushed was that in person religious services were non-essential when Wal-Mart was open.

Yes you should worship from home and should at all times

No home worship doesn't satisfy one's obligation to attend the Mass or Divine Liturgy on the Lord's Day

A soft approach and trying to dialogue(conform) to the world is why the Modern Church is struggling. It will never fail we have already been assured of the Victory of Christ.
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barbacoa taco
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10:05a, 1/4/22
AG
well, covid cases certainly are ramping up. that's just a fact. acknowledging that doesn't mean you're living in fear. what's the alternative? be in denial about the reality of a pandemic?

why can't there be reasonable middle ground? you can acknowledge that covid is spiking right now but also choose to not isolate yourself. just get vaccinated and be vigilant.
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schmendeler
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10:12a, 1/4/22
AG
Maybe churches are nervous because the profile of a heavy giver to a church is an older person and young folks that inherit their money don't give it to the church.
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Guy on a Buffalo
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In reply to barbacoa taco • 10:15a, 1/4/22
AG
larry culpepper said:
well, covid cases certainly are ramping up. that's just a fact. acknowledging that doesn't mean you're living in fear. what's the alternative? be in denial about the reality of a pandemic?

why can't there be reasonable middle ground? you can acknowledge that covid is spiking right now but also choose to not isolate yourself. just get vaccinated and be vigilant.

A pandemic of head colds is not worth noting.

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Truth without love is brutality. Love without truth is compromise.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to Guy on a Buffalo • 10:15a, 1/4/22
AG
Quote:
True faith in the face of fear

The problem is that this isn't held consistently. For example, look at all the fearmongering seen from Christians when the subject of nonviolence comes up.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to Guy on a Buffalo • 10:17a, 1/4/22
AG
raging_agaholic said:
larry culpepper said:
well, covid cases certainly are ramping up. that's just a fact. acknowledging that doesn't mean you're living in fear. what's the alternative? be in denial about the reality of a pandemic?

why can't there be reasonable middle ground? you can acknowledge that covid is spiking right now but also choose to not isolate yourself. just get vaccinated and be vigilant.

A pandemic of head colds is not worth noting.

Head colds don't kill 800,000 people. You present it as others exaggerating the issue, but you're guilty of doing the exact same, but on the flip side.
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Guy on a Buffalo
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In reply to PacifistAg • 10:22a, 1/4/22
AG
PacifistAg said:
raging_agaholic said:
larry culpepper said:
well, covid cases certainly are ramping up. that's just a fact. acknowledging that doesn't mean you're living in fear. what's the alternative? be in denial about the reality of a pandemic?

why can't there be reasonable middle ground? you can acknowledge that covid is spiking right now but also choose to not isolate yourself. just get vaccinated and be vigilant.

A pandemic of head colds is not worth noting.

Head colds don't kill 800,000 people. You present it as others exaggerating the issue, but you're guilty of doing the exact same, but on the flip side.

Neither did Covid. "Died with", not "died from".

-----------------------
Truth without love is brutality. Love without truth is compromise.
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Macarthur
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10:26a, 1/4/22
A simple google search will show endless numbers of outbreaks traced back to church congregations and numerous deaths followed.

It's irresponsible for pastors to not be diligent and truthful with the flock. That doesn't mean everyone has to live their life in fear....just dealing with reality.
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Macarthur
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In reply to Guy on a Buffalo • 10:27a, 1/4/22
raging_agaholic said:
PacifistAg said:
raging_agaholic said:
larry culpepper said:
well, covid cases certainly are ramping up. that's just a fact. acknowledging that doesn't mean you're living in fear. what's the alternative? be in denial about the reality of a pandemic?

why can't there be reasonable middle ground? you can acknowledge that covid is spiking right now but also choose to not isolate yourself. just get vaccinated and be vigilant.

A pandemic of head colds is not worth noting.

Head colds don't kill 800,000 people. You present it as others exaggerating the issue, but you're guilty of doing the exact same, but on the flip side.

Neither did Covid. "Died with", not "died from".

incredibly horrible take....
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PacifistAg
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In reply to Guy on a Buffalo • 10:28a, 1/4/22
AG
raging_agaholic said:
PacifistAg said:
raging_agaholic said:
larry culpepper said:
well, covid cases certainly are ramping up. that's just a fact. acknowledging that doesn't mean you're living in fear. what's the alternative? be in denial about the reality of a pandemic?

why can't there be reasonable middle ground? you can acknowledge that covid is spiking right now but also choose to not isolate yourself. just get vaccinated and be vigilant.

A pandemic of head colds is not worth noting.

Head colds don't kill 800,000 people. You present it as others exaggerating the issue, but you're guilty of doing the exact same, but on the flip side.

Neither did Covid. "Died with", not "died from".

I've known plenty who either died, or lost a loved one, FROM covid.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to Macarthur • 10:29a, 1/4/22
AG
Macarthur said:
raging_agaholic said:
PacifistAg said:
raging_agaholic said:
larry culpepper said:
well, covid cases certainly are ramping up. that's just a fact. acknowledging that doesn't mean you're living in fear. what's the alternative? be in denial about the reality of a pandemic?

why can't there be reasonable middle ground? you can acknowledge that covid is spiking right now but also choose to not isolate yourself. just get vaccinated and be vigilant.

A pandemic of head colds is not worth noting.

Head colds don't kill 800,000 people. You present it as others exaggerating the issue, but you're guilty of doing the exact same, but on the flip side.

Neither did Covid. "Died with", not "died from".

incredibly horrible take....

Horrible and grossly ignorant.
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Dilettante
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In reply to PacifistAg • 10:35a, 1/4/22
He's right though. The death stats are people who died with covid. The vast majority of people who die with covid die from covid, so it's a dumb thing to say, but that is a fact. It's just not a relevant fact.

100% certain causes of death in medicine rarely exist. Did the gunshot victim die of an aneurism before they bled out? Maybe, but probably not.
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PacifistAg
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10:37a, 1/4/22
AG
Person A: I think we should take precautions to help protect ourselves and others against COVID.

Person B: How dare you peddle fear?! Where's your faith?

Also Person A: As a follower of Christ, I embrace nonviolence in all situations.

Also Person B: But what if someone breaks into your home, rapes your wife, has a gun to your kid's head, and kicked your grandmother as she held a puppy?!!! You're evil!
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PacifistAg
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In reply to Dilettante • 10:39a, 1/4/22
AG
Dilettante said:
He's right though. The death stats are people who died with covid. The vast majority of people who die with covid die from covid, so it's a dumb thing to say, but that is a fact. It's just not a relevant fact.

100% certain causes of death in medicine rarely exist. Did the gunshot victim die of an aneurism before they bled out? Maybe, but probably not.

Oh, I understand. In context of him also equating it to a head cold, it's clear he believes the vast majority of that 800,000 didn't die from COVID.
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AGC
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In reply to PacifistAg • 10:39a, 1/4/22
AG
PacifistAg said:
Person A: I think we should take precautions to help protect ourselves and others against COVID.

Person B: How dare you peddle fear?! Where's your faith?

Also Person A: As a follower of Christ, I embrace nonviolence in all situations.

Also Person B: But what if someone breaks into your home, rapes your wife, has a gun to your kid's head, and kicked your grandmother as she held a puppy?!!! You're evil!


This thread isn't about you.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to AGC • 10:41a, 1/4/22
AG
AGC said:
PacifistAg said:
Person A: I think we should take precautions to help protect ourselves and others against COVID.

Person B: How dare you peddle fear?! Where's your faith?

Also Person A: As a follower of Christ, I embrace nonviolence in all situations.

Also Person B: But what if someone breaks into your home, rapes your wife, has a gun to your kid's head, and kicked your grandmother as she held a puppy?!!! You're evil!


This thread isn't about you.

Then why are you trying to make it about me? I said nothing about me. I'm not the only pacifist who has heard the ridiculous fearmongering. I used a nameless example to highlight the inconsistency of people like the OP.

Obsession noted.
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barbacoa taco
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In reply to Guy on a Buffalo • 10:42a, 1/4/22
AG
raging_agaholic said:
larry culpepper said:
well, covid cases certainly are ramping up. that's just a fact. acknowledging that doesn't mean you're living in fear. what's the alternative? be in denial about the reality of a pandemic?

why can't there be reasonable middle ground? you can acknowledge that covid is spiking right now but also choose to not isolate yourself. just get vaccinated and be vigilant.

A pandemic of head colds is not worth noting.
I'm tired of y'all. We get it, covid is mild for most people. Omicron is a mild but very contagious variant. Covid has still killed hundreds of thousands of people in the United States. And you flip out anytime a church pastor or anyone else says be careful.

We're not all a bunch of lunatics who wear masks to bed and think the world should quarantine for 2 full years. I'm a normal person who has actually lived a pretty normal life for the past year. I'm just not being a completely obtuse, anti-vaxx partisan who keeps believing some bull**** that covid is all some big hoax and is nothing more than a cold.

it's a serious pandemic that has killed millions of people, even though the majority of cases are mild. stop crying that your pastor cares about other people and be an adult, and understand that not everyone who has gotten covid has had the exact same experience as you.

Good Lord.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to barbacoa taco • 10:43a, 1/4/22
AG
Amen
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barbacoa taco
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In reply to Macarthur • 10:44a, 1/4/22
AG
Macarthur said:
raging_agaholic said:
PacifistAg said:
raging_agaholic said:
larry culpepper said:
well, covid cases certainly are ramping up. that's just a fact. acknowledging that doesn't mean you're living in fear. what's the alternative? be in denial about the reality of a pandemic?

why can't there be reasonable middle ground? you can acknowledge that covid is spiking right now but also choose to not isolate yourself. just get vaccinated and be vigilant.

A pandemic of head colds is not worth noting.

Head colds don't kill 800,000 people. You present it as others exaggerating the issue, but you're guilty of doing the exact same, but on the flip side.

Neither did Covid. "Died with", not "died from".

incredibly horrible take....
Forum 16 is trash and the lies they spread there are evil. So sick of their bullsht.
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AGC
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In reply to Dilettante • 10:45a, 1/4/22
AG
Dilettante said:
He's right though. The death stats are people who died with covid. The vast majority of people who die with covid die from covid, so it's a dumb thing to say, but that is a fact. It's just not a relevant fact.

100% certain causes of death in medicine rarely exist. Did the gunshot victim die of an aneurism before they bled out? Maybe, but probably not.


And yet we know homicide victims were included in COVID numbers because newspapers published names. Not all but it makes it dubious. We also know bad governance in New York and Michigan exacerbated those stats beyond what appropriate precautions would have done (sending COVID patients back into nursing homes). There's no great take on the numbers because at face value they're misleading to the tune of potentially tens of thousands, maybe more. It didn't have to be this deadly but it's not all maga fans driving it.

It's more than a headcold for some but it's been mismanaged, mistreated, and mishandled from the start. We should have assessed risk groups beyond age, for example, by thinks like weight. Whatever it was it's polticial now. Notice how no one goes in the middle for talking about the gravity. It's straight to the current printed number or nothing with no analysis.
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AGC
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In reply to PacifistAg • 10:48a, 1/4/22
AG
PacifistAg said:
Quote:
True faith in the face of fear

The problem is that this isn't held consistently. For example, look at all the fearmongering seen from Christians when the subject of nonviolence comes up.


This is you talking about non-violence when no one else is. I quoted your second post where you worked pacifism into the response. No one else is talking about you being a pacifist. This thread is not about you.
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barbacoa taco
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In reply to AGC • 10:48a, 1/4/22
AG
AGC said:
Dilettante said:
He's right though. The death stats are people who died with covid. The vast majority of people who die with covid die from covid, so it's a dumb thing to say, but that is a fact. It's just not a relevant fact.

100% certain causes of death in medicine rarely exist. Did the gunshot victim die of an aneurism before they bled out? Maybe, but probably not.


And yet we know homicide victims were included in COVID numbers because newspapers published names. Not all but it makes it dubious. We also know bad governance in New York and Michigan exacerbated those stats beyond what appropriate precautions would have done (sending COVID patients back into nursing homes). There's no great take on the numbers because at face value they're misleading to the tune of potentially tens of thousands, maybe more. It didn't have to be this deadly but it's not all maga fans driving it.

It's more than a headcold for some but it's been mismanaged, mistreated, and mishandled from the start. We should have assessed risk groups beyond age, for example, by thinks like weight. Whatever it was it's polticial now. Notice how no one goes in the middle for talking about the gravity. It's straight to the current printed number or nothing with no analysis.
its only natural that our response to covid is political and people don't agree on it. But people are so BSC that they are triggered by ANYONE taking even the most reasonable precautions. it's just utter insanity.

I got vaccinated last year and have gone to crowded venues even within the past month. I acknowledge that I'm not being very careful at times. it's so weird hearing all these conservative Christians talk like we should ignore covid completely and deny the reality that it's the most serious pandemic we've faced in 100 years.
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PacifistAg
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10:52a, 1/4/22
AG
Swimfan doesn't like me pointing out inconsistencies.
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Macarthur
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In reply to AGC • 10:55a, 1/4/22
AGC said:
Dilettante said:
He's right though. The death stats are people who died with covid. The vast majority of people who die with covid die from covid, so it's a dumb thing to say, but that is a fact. It's just not a relevant fact.

100% certain causes of death in medicine rarely exist. Did the gunshot victim die of an aneurism before they bled out? Maybe, but probably not.


And yet we know homicide victims were included in COVID numbers because newspapers published names. Not all but it makes it dubious. We also know bad governance in New York and Michigan exacerbated those stats beyond what appropriate precautions would have done (sending COVID patients back into nursing homes). There's no great take on the numbers because at face value they're misleading to the tune of potentially tens of thousands, maybe more. It didn't have to be this deadly but it's not all maga fans driving it.

It's more than a headcold for some but it's been mismanaged, mistreated, and mishandled from the start. We should have assessed risk groups beyond age, for example, by thinks like weight. Whatever it was it's polticial now. Notice how no one goes in the middle for talking about the gravity. It's straight to the current printed number or nothing with no analysis.

This is kind of a silly take. You're talking about a couple of small isolated situations and trying to make some significant statistical point here. IF one thing is clear about the death count relating to Covid, is that it's almost certainly undercounted.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-covid-19-deaths-are-counted1/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/12/09/covid-death-count-america-cdc/6435124001/

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/05/06/994287048/new-study-estimates-more-than-900-000-people-have-died-of-covid-19-in-u-s

There are numerous articles similar to these.
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Dilettante
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In reply to AGC • 10:56a, 1/4/22
I don't think anyone cares whether the real number is 700k or 800k. It doesn't seem like it makes a difference. From everything I've seen, the published figure is likely to be an undercount, but you're right that many people are included in it who died of some kind of trauma.
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AGC
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In reply to barbacoa taco • 11:01a, 1/4/22
AG
larry culpepper said:
AGC said:
Dilettante said:
He's right though. The death stats are people who died with covid. The vast majority of people who die with covid die from covid, so it's a dumb thing to say, but that is a fact. It's just not a relevant fact.

100% certain causes of death in medicine rarely exist. Did the gunshot victim die of an aneurism before they bled out? Maybe, but probably not.


And yet we know homicide victims were included in COVID numbers because newspapers published names. Not all but it makes it dubious. We also know bad governance in New York and Michigan exacerbated those stats beyond what appropriate precautions would have done (sending COVID patients back into nursing homes). There's no great take on the numbers because at face value they're misleading to the tune of potentially tens of thousands, maybe more. It didn't have to be this deadly but it's not all maga fans driving it.

It's more than a headcold for some but it's been mismanaged, mistreated, and mishandled from the start. We should have assessed risk groups beyond age, for example, by thinks like weight. Whatever it was it's polticial now. Notice how no one goes in the middle for talking about the gravity. It's straight to the current printed number or nothing with no analysis.
its only natural that our response to covid is political and people don't agree on it. But people are so BSC that they are triggered by ANYONE taking even the most reasonable precautions. it's just utter insanity.

I got vaccinated last year and have gone to crowded venues even within the past month. I acknowledge that I'm not being very careful at times. it's so weird hearing all these conservative Christians talk like we should ignore covid completely and deny the reality that it's the most serious pandemic we've faced in 100 years.


It's not natural though. Reasonable precautions are highly individualized. There are also externalities, like a really strong cold going around right now because we a lot of people missed it the last two years. Lots of other childhood infections are spiking for the same reason so we're seeing more severity in those and hospitalizations. This isn't a closed system where you can pull levers and fix it without other risk.

Your response of telling people to get vaccinated makes sense if someone's old or obese. All of this will change in the next 12 months anyways with new drugs rolling out and the general realization that this is endemic, like the flu. However what if someone doesn't want to hand the parachute to the 80 year old but the five year old instead? That's not an unreasonable take. There's a limit to precautions before saying, we have illness everywhere and we can't prevent death forever. It doesn't mean we don't care but we're measuring the trade off for society as a whole rather than choosing the most at risk group to gear it all towards at the expense of everyone else.
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AGC
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In reply to Macarthur • 11:14a, 1/4/22
AG
Macarthur said:
AGC said:
Dilettante said:
He's right though. The death stats are people who died with covid. The vast majority of people who die with covid die from covid, so it's a dumb thing to say, but that is a fact. It's just not a relevant fact.

100% certain causes of death in medicine rarely exist. Did the gunshot victim die of an aneurism before they bled out? Maybe, but probably not.


And yet we know homicide victims were included in COVID numbers because newspapers published names. Not all but it makes it dubious. We also know bad governance in New York and Michigan exacerbated those stats beyond what appropriate precautions would have done (sending COVID patients back into nursing homes). There's no great take on the numbers because at face value they're misleading to the tune of potentially tens of thousands, maybe more. It didn't have to be this deadly but it's not all maga fans driving it.

It's more than a headcold for some but it's been mismanaged, mistreated, and mishandled from the start. We should have assessed risk groups beyond age, for example, by thinks like weight. Whatever it was it's polticial now. Notice how no one goes in the middle for talking about the gravity. It's straight to the current printed number or nothing with no analysis.

This is kind of a silly take. You're talking about a couple of small isolated situations and trying to make some significant statistical point here. IF one thing is clear about the death count relating to Covid, is that it's almost certainly undercounted.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-covid-19-deaths-are-counted1/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/12/09/covid-death-count-america-cdc/6435124001/

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/05/06/994287048/new-study-estimates-more-than-900-000-people-have-died-of-covid-19-in-u-s

There are numerous articles similar to these.


None of those actually say it's undercounted. They say they have gaps in numbers and the they believe they're explained by COVID since they can't measure them all. Or they modeled something and assumed that's the cause. This is a Rorschach test. If you believe COVID is super deadly and serious you think it's undercounted. If you think it's a headcold it's overcounted. I'm sticking with what's actually document to state it's overcounted. Different line of argumentation entirely.

I'd also add these articles neglect how much the government was paying and reimbursing for COVID during the early months. If you shut down elective surgery you gotta pay bills so there was a perverse incentive to code people as dying from COVID or with it to get counted in the stats (which is a plausible reason for a homicide or car accident to get coded that way).
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Macarthur
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In reply to AGC • 11:23a, 1/4/22
AGC said:
Macarthur said:
AGC said:
Dilettante said:
He's right though. The death stats are people who died with covid. The vast majority of people who die with covid die from covid, so it's a dumb thing to say, but that is a fact. It's just not a relevant fact.

100% certain causes of death in medicine rarely exist. Did the gunshot victim die of an aneurism before they bled out? Maybe, but probably not.


And yet we know homicide victims were included in COVID numbers because newspapers published names. Not all but it makes it dubious. We also know bad governance in New York and Michigan exacerbated those stats beyond what appropriate precautions would have done (sending COVID patients back into nursing homes). There's no great take on the numbers because at face value they're misleading to the tune of potentially tens of thousands, maybe more. It didn't have to be this deadly but it's not all maga fans driving it.

It's more than a headcold for some but it's been mismanaged, mistreated, and mishandled from the start. We should have assessed risk groups beyond age, for example, by thinks like weight. Whatever it was it's polticial now. Notice how no one goes in the middle for talking about the gravity. It's straight to the current printed number or nothing with no analysis.

This is kind of a silly take. You're talking about a couple of small isolated situations and trying to make some significant statistical point here. IF one thing is clear about the death count relating to Covid, is that it's almost certainly undercounted.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-covid-19-deaths-are-counted1/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/12/09/covid-death-count-america-cdc/6435124001/

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/05/06/994287048/new-study-estimates-more-than-900-000-people-have-died-of-covid-19-in-u-s

There are numerous articles similar to these.


None of those actually say it's undercounted. They say they have gaps in numbers and the they believe they're explained by COVID since they can't measure them all. Or they modeled something and assumed that's the cause. This is a Rorschach test. If you believe COVID is super deadly and serious you think it's undercounted. If you think it's a headcold it's overcounted. I'm sticking with what's actually document to state it's overcounted. Different line of argumentation entirely.

I'd also add these articles neglect how much the government was paying and reimbursing for COVID during the early months. If you shut down elective surgery you gotta pay bills so there was a perverse incentive to code people as dying from COVID or with it to get counted in the stats (which is a plausible reason for a homicide or car accident to get coded that way).

I think the Rorschach Test is for those on your side of it, frankly. You want to take fringe elements of this and shoehorn them into the mainstream narrative.
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In reply to Macarthur • 11:28a, 1/4/22
AG
Macarthur said:
AGC said:
Macarthur said:
AGC said:
Dilettante said:
He's right though. The death stats are people who died with covid. The vast majority of people who die with covid die from covid, so it's a dumb thing to say, but that is a fact. It's just not a relevant fact.

100% certain causes of death in medicine rarely exist. Did the gunshot victim die of an aneurism before they bled out? Maybe, but probably not.


And yet we know homicide victims were included in COVID numbers because newspapers published names. Not all but it makes it dubious. We also know bad governance in New York and Michigan exacerbated those stats beyond what appropriate precautions would have done (sending COVID patients back into nursing homes). There's no great take on the numbers because at face value they're misleading to the tune of potentially tens of thousands, maybe more. It didn't have to be this deadly but it's not all maga fans driving it.

It's more than a headcold for some but it's been mismanaged, mistreated, and mishandled from the start. We should have assessed risk groups beyond age, for example, by thinks like weight. Whatever it was it's polticial now. Notice how no one goes in the middle for talking about the gravity. It's straight to the current printed number or nothing with no analysis.

This is kind of a silly take. You're talking about a couple of small isolated situations and trying to make some significant statistical point here. IF one thing is clear about the death count relating to Covid, is that it's almost certainly undercounted.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-covid-19-deaths-are-counted1/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/12/09/covid-death-count-america-cdc/6435124001/

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/05/06/994287048/new-study-estimates-more-than-900-000-people-have-died-of-covid-19-in-u-s

There are numerous articles similar to these.


None of those actually say it's undercounted. They say they have gaps in numbers and the they believe they're explained by COVID since they can't measure them all. Or they modeled something and assumed that's the cause. This is a Rorschach test. If you believe COVID is super deadly and serious you think it's undercounted. If you think it's a headcold it's overcounted. I'm sticking with what's actually document to state it's overcounted. Different line of argumentation entirely.

I'd also add these articles neglect how much the government was paying and reimbursing for COVID during the early months. If you shut down elective surgery you gotta pay bills so there was a perverse incentive to code people as dying from COVID or with it to get counted in the stats (which is a plausible reason for a homicide or car accident to get coded that way).

I think the Rorschach Test is for those on your side of it, frankly. You want to take fringe elements of this and shoehorn them into the mainstream narrative.


'Your side of it.' I haven't called it a headcold. But I also haven't believed numbers that are definitively known to overcount and added my personal bias that it's probably undercounted instead. I'm sorry that's frustrating.
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In reply to AGC • 11:37a, 1/4/22
I think it's Rorschach on your part because you are take something like "know fact" of including non-Covid deaths in the count and trying to make this incredibly small issue and making it into something it's not. In fact, most if not all these counts have been corrected. When you go back and read the articles about this 'controversy' they all say the counts have been corrected.

Your point is a non-issue and it's a huge distraction from the real issue.
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In reply to Macarthur • 11:43a, 1/4/22
AG
Macarthur said:
I think it's Rorschach on your part because you are take something like "know fact" of including non-Covid deaths in the count and trying to make this incredibly small issue and making it into something it's not. In fact, most if not all these counts have been corrected. When you go back and read the articles about this 'controversy' they all say the counts have been corrected.

Your point is a non-issue and it's a huge distraction from the real issue.
the whole thing about miscounting covid deaths is people act like it's an intentional conspiracy to overblow the pandemic. in an effort to scare us and control us and (in 2020) make Trump look bad.

when in reality it's more than likely due to mistakes. never attribute to malice what can properly be explained by stupidity. it's just so utterly insane and infuriating that people really think there are ulterior motives. and it goes back to covid denial, i.e. the belief that this is all a nothingburger.
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In reply to Macarthur • 11:47a, 1/4/22
AG
Macarthur said:
I think it's Rorschach on your part because you are take something like "know fact" of including non-Covid deaths in the count and trying to make this incredibly small issue and making it into something it's not. In fact, most if not all these counts have been corrected. When you go back and read the articles about this 'controversy' they all say the counts have been corrected.

Your point is a non-issue and it's a huge distraction from the real issue.


'Huge distraction.' Or not. How do you go back and account for hospital profit motive in classifying deaths? How do you adjust for cuomo's impact on the numbers? You can't.

The real issue is assessing what type of threat COVID actually is to public health and how to deal with it. We need honesty and accuracy for that. We have yet to get it and it still isn't happening at a federal level (cdc and faucci are all over the map even now on recommendations). That's a real issue.

But that doesn't make assuming that it's undercounted responsible or reasonable. All of the articles you posted discuss how they have no data but assume it to be true. How do you support your assumption with other people's assumptions and pass it off as fact?
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