Tell me about non-human hominids

3,241 Views | 29 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by Sea Speed
Athanasius
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AG
I find the topic fascinating.

Tell me your thoughts and share resources on the fact that other 'species' created art, had burial rituals, mated with humans, etc.

How does this impact the Adam and Eve story?

How does this impact the plan of salvation?

etc...
UTExan
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Just a few thoughts: Genesis 6 says there were such hybrid beings, considered the "mighty men" of old with apparently superior faculties to those of Homo sapiens. Consider Noah who was "perfect in his generations" and the issue of only a few being saved from the Flood in his day. The earth was filled with violence in those days and indeed, we are told it was the violence of Sodom that caused her destruction. Consider also the specific Canaanite tribes marked for destruction in Israel's invasion of Canaan whereas other tribes were not marked for destruction.
Do I think there were part-human hominids? I do, and it might mean there was no presently identifiable DNA present in their remains other than human since they were fathered by fallen angels.
We will certainly find out when we reach heaven, along with the mystery of evil and why Ohio State was allowed to outscore Utah in the Rose Bowl.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Quad Dog
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AG
UTExan said:

Just a few thoughts: Genesis 6 says there were such hybrid beings, considered the "mighty men" of old with apparently superior faculties to those of Homo sapiens. Consider Noah who was "perfect in his generations" and the issue of only a few being saved from the Flood in his day. The earth was filled with violence in those days and indeed, we are told it was the violence of Sodom that caused her destruction. Consider also the specific Canaanite tribes marked for destruction in Israel's invasion of Canaan whereas other tribes were not marked for destruction.
Do I think there were part-human hominids? I do, and would might mean there was no presently identifiable DNA present in their remains other than human since they were fathered by fallen angels.
We will certainly find out when we reach heaven, along with the mystery of evil and why Ohio State was allowed to outscore Utah in the Rose Bowl.
I have a lot of questions on this topic.

Are you saying that Noah wasn't a homo sapien? If the flood killed everyone but Noah and his family (that is the claim of the flood, right? I can't keep track) then all homo sapiens are descended from a non homo sapien?

Are you saying God killed off all the non homo sapien hominids?
"Neanderthals have contributed approximately 1-4% of the genomes of non-African modern humans, although a modern human who lived about 40,000 years ago has been found to have between 6-9% Neanderthal DNA (Fu et al 2015). " source Did God kill off the 100% Neanderthals and left the interbreeds?

Do you think we'll encounter non homo sapien hominids in heaven? Did Jesus save their souls too? Or was there a separate Neanderthal Jesus? Or did they not have souls?

If we are going down this path for other hominids, then we could also go down it for current and past great apes, some aquatic mammals, octopi , and some birds too. Does anyone have different or same opinions on these animals than non homo sapien hominids?
UTExan
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Quad Dog said:

UTExan said:

Just a few thoughts: Genesis 6 says there were such hybrid beings, considered the "mighty men" of old with apparently superior faculties to those of Homo sapiens. Consider Noah who was "perfect in his generations" and the issue of only a few being saved from the Flood in his day. The earth was filled with violence in those days and indeed, we are told it was the violence of Sodom that caused her destruction. Consider also the specific Canaanite tribes marked for destruction in Israel's invasion of Canaan whereas other tribes were not marked for destruction.
Do I think there were part-human hominids? I do, and would might mean there was no presently identifiable DNA present in their remains other than human since they were fathered by fallen angels.
We will certainly find out when we reach heaven, along with the mystery of evil and why Ohio State was allowed to outscore Utah in the Rose Bowl.
I have a lot of questions on this topic.

Are you saying that Noah wasn't a homo sapien? If the flood killed everyone but Noah and his family (that is the claim of the flood, right? I can't keep track) then all homo sapiens are descended from a non homo sapien?

Are you saying God killed off all the non homo sapien hominids?
"Neanderthals have contributed approximately 1-4% of the genomes of non-African modern humans, although a modern human who lived about 40,000 years ago has been found to have between 6-9% Neanderthal DNA (Fu et al 2015). " source Did God kill off the 100% Neanderthals and left the interbreeds?

Do you think we'll encounter non homo sapien hominids in heaven? Did Jesus save their souls too? Or was there a separate Neanderthal Jesus? Or did they not have souls?

If we are going down this path for other hominids, then we could also go down it for current and past great apes, some aquatic mammals, octopi , and some birds too. Does anyone have different or same opinions on these animals than non homo sapien hominids?


No, the opposite: IF Noah was "perfect in his generations" it would seem to imply he WASN'T descended from ancestors who included fallen angels. Genesis 6 keeps repeating the theme of corruption in the earth. If mankind sinned, then of course mankind was corrupt and violent. But this type of corruption and violence seems different such that God apparently saw it as irredeemable.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
schmendeler
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AG
UTExan said:

Just a few thoughts: Genesis 6 says there were such hybrid beings, considered the "mighty men" of old with apparently superior faculties to those of Homo sapiens. Consider Noah who was "perfect in his generations" and the issue of only a few being saved from the Flood in his day. The earth was filled with violence in those days and indeed, we are told it was the violence of Sodom that caused her destruction. Consider also the specific Canaanite tribes marked for destruction in Israel's invasion of Canaan whereas other tribes were not marked for destruction.
Do I think there were part-human hominids? I do, and it might mean there was no presently identifiable DNA present in their remains other than human since they were fathered by fallen angels.
We will certainly find out when we reach heaven, along with the mystery of evil and why Ohio State was allowed to outscore Utah in the Rose Bowl.


It's wild to me that otherwise serious people believe this.
Sapper Redux
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UTExan said:

Just a few thoughts: Genesis 6 says there were such hybrid beings, considered the "mighty men" of old with apparently superior faculties to those of Homo sapiens. Consider Noah who was "perfect in his generations" and the issue of only a few being saved from the Flood in his day. The earth was filled with violence in those days and indeed, we are told it was the violence of Sodom that caused her destruction. Consider also the specific Canaanite tribes marked for destruction in Israel's invasion of Canaan whereas other tribes were not marked for destruction.
Do I think there were part-human hominids? I do, and it might mean there was no presently identifiable DNA present in their remains other than human since they were fathered by fallen angels.
We will certainly find out when we reach heaven, along with the mystery of evil and why Ohio State was allowed to outscore Utah in the Rose Bowl.


There was nothing specifically violent about Neanderthals. If anything, modern Homo sapiens likely killed a ton of them.
UTExan
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schmendeler said:

UTExan said:

Just a few thoughts: Genesis 6 says there were such hybrid beings, considered the "mighty men" of old with apparently superior faculties to those of Homo sapiens. Consider Noah who was "perfect in his generations" and the issue of only a few being saved from the Flood in his day. The earth was filled with violence in those days and indeed, we are told it was the violence of Sodom that caused her destruction. Consider also the specific Canaanite tribes marked for destruction in Israel's invasion of Canaan whereas other tribes were not marked for destruction.
Do I think there were part-human hominids? I do, and it might mean there was no presently identifiable DNA present in their remains other than human since they were fathered by fallen angels.
We will certainly find out when we reach heaven, along with the mystery of evil and why Ohio State was allowed to outscore Utah in the Rose Bowl.


It's wild to me that otherwise serious people believe this.


It's wild to me that otherwise intelligent people such as you are so quickly dismissive of ideas which are outside accepted institutional orthodoxy.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Aggrad08
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AG
It's not like there isn't a mountain of evidence against it…an no empirical evidence for it
Aggrad08
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AG
An actual thorough genocide seems pretty difficult for the age. I always figured we just accidentally smallpoxed them or something and simply had better immunity
Sapper Redux
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Aggrad08 said:

An actual thorough genocide seems pretty difficult for the age. I always figured we just accidentally smallpoxed them or something and simply had better immunity


Smallpox is a zoonotic pathogen we got from agriculture. Neanderthals went extinct before agriculture could have led to that or a similar pathogen. It wasn't all warfare and murder. It seems their numbers were declining before Homo sapiens left Africa. However, it also seems that at the very least we pushed them out of the best lands and forced them to survive at the margins of what was habitable for hunter-gatherer societies.
UTExan
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Aggrad08 said:

It's not like there isn't a mountain of evidence against it…an no empirical evidence for it


Then you must follow the evidence you find most convincing. I start at approximately here:
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
nortex97
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AG
Europeans, and more so East Asians have a lot of Neanderthal DNA. Understanding of divine revelation as provided in the Bible should always be revised when the divine revelation of science/understanding of creation expands. See: Thomas Aquinas.

Genesis shouldn't be read literally, imho. Nor of course should Revelation, which is less hotly debated as such, but for some reason this appeals to some (who often lack proper exegetical instruction/education/training).
Aggrad08
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AG
Is there a particular part of that you found compelling, I skipped around a bit and I'm not giving that 15 minutes based on the two I lost
File5
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AG
Taking a cue from someone on the other thread...

Perhaps the Neanderthals were actually extremely intelligent (evidence suggests they weren't at all stupid), all homosexual at the end, and actually so advanced that the aliens visiting decided they would take them all home with them. 3 threads wrapped up!

In all seriousness, I agree that Genesis and Revelation should indeed be read more as allegories than literal explanations, which matches the style of writing employed. I like the idea of Neanderthals having some place in human lore, and don't think it is THAT far-fetched given that language developed well before their extinction, and it's very possible (although perhaps unlikely?) that oral story-telling referenced them for the past 40,000 years since.
UTExan
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Aggrad08 said:

Is there a particular part of that you found compelling, I skipped around a bit and I'm not giving that 15 minutes based on the two I lost


Headline version?

Reality of angelic revolt in ages past

God creates humanity with free will

Satan seduces humanity to sin, requiring God to redeem humanity in a way which satisfies both perfect justice and mercy

Satan's minions interbreed with humans (and possibly corrupt other species) for their own reasons

God redeems humanity through the incarnation of His own son, the Lord Jesus Christ, through whom salvation is graciously granted to those who repent of their sins and believe on him for their salvation.

Have the Nephilim been present throughout human history? See various cultures which devolved to human sacrifice as the Canaanites did. Marzulli makes this point explicitly in his books and videos. Matthew 24 (as it was in the days of Noah…) is an interesting read.

For those believing the earth is 6,000 years old and who doubt the fossil record, "gap theory" may help, along with the work of G H Pember.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Rongagin71
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AG
In Tight Pursuit

I had just finished my second Jamaican Me Happy when the bad idea to take a walk around the beautiful island tempted me to leave the safety of The Tourist Trap Hotel.
The palms and ferns were waving in the balmy breeze, and all seemed nice and gentle when I set out for a short walk around the scenic countryside.
I had only gone about 100 yards when I met a strange little "man" (or maybe it was a dwarf as its humanness was questionable - it had no clothes, walked in a hopping crouch, and was covered in long red hair over dark skin).
I looked at its ape-like face and, wanting to test for intelligence, politely said "hello".
It immediately yelled "uncajunca" and gestured for me to follow as it hopped off down a wide path that I assumed would lead us to a village.
Indeed, we soon arrived at a few squalid huts located around what appeared to be a cave mouth.
Several more of the odd creatures appeared from the huts as my leader parked in front of the cave, where it loudly yelled "uncajunca" a couple of times.
From the cave appeared a much larger version of the hairy beings.
Not only was this second type much larger, it had a remarkable difference maker between its legs.
Apparently, the females were so covered in hair that I it was not until I saw a male that I realized that they were female...but this second guy was definitely a guy.
A gay guy.
Uncle Junkah took one look at me and started leering and beating time eight to the bar.
I started backing off, but he advanced as fast as his already stiff member would allow.
I turned and ran, while he used his long legs to begin a tight pursuit.
I wasn't too worried as I was young and had run cross-country in school. My main concern was not to stumble over some rock or branch in the path.
The following creature exhibited its siccant humor by yelling "uncajunca" on a regular basis which must have cost it some breath as it appeared to slow down.
As it dropped further behind, its hopes faded and so did its natural impediment - but this process let it speed up and soon it was close enough for its hopes to again reignite a turgid reaction.
It was at this point that saw the outskirts of town.
I remembered, from tourist orientation, that there was a police station located somewhere near, and began a fervent hunt for its assumed safety.
After taking several wrong turns and almost getting caught, I ran into the station and slammed the door in Uncle Junkah's face. It stood outside yelling "uncajunca, uncajunca"!
The on-duty cop came over and asked if I needed help.
I was busy holding the door shut but yelped "yes"!
He smiled and pulled a tube of vaseline from his pocket and stuck it in my shirt pocket.
It was at this point that I realized just how different was this culture from my own, and that "uncajunca" was probably a universal cry to help Uncle Junkah.
Desperate, I grabbed the cop's gun out of his loose holster and fired a warning shot through the roof fronds.
Both the cop and the creature took off and I was left to wonder if I should keep the gun or leave it on the police office desk.
I decided to go down fighting so kept the gun and started walking back to the Tourist Trap.
It was getting late as I neared the hotel, and I could hear unmistakable sounds of police activity: sirens followed by peremptory orders.
Creeping through the foliage beside the trail, while wondering how to get back onboard the tourist ship, I slowly approached The Trap.
Then my luck came up aces as I met a young lady of my acquaintance from the ship.
She was escaping down the trail and answered my eager hello with the information that the cops were seeking an armed vigilante that they were sure was a tourist.
She didn't want to be searched so was going to spend the night in her isolated tent near the beach - and she invited me to come with her. This, I was much pleased to do, making full use of the vaseline.
The next day, we avoided the crowd getting on to the tourist ship as the cops were checking everyone.
She knew of a private airport and I was happy to pay for a plane ride to Florida.
Perhaps a law enforcement agency would normally have met the plane, but from what I was told, some VIP named something like Douci, was conducting orangutang/human hybrid experiments on the island and had arranged for us to leave before the situation became more public.
I now suspect the young lady was an agent working for Douci, and that she liked me better than I had any right to expect...I hope to meet her again, but not any more hybrids.
Unless she is a hybrid.


Star Wars Memes Only
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Always found human prehistory fascinating. Read Sapiens recently, and really enjoyed. Sapper (or anyone else, really), any recommendations on books on human prehistory?
Ulrich
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DizzyStarship said:

Always found human prehistory fascinating. Read Sapiens recently, and really enjoyed. Sapper (or anyone else, really), any recommendations on books on human prehistory?

Who we are and how we got here by Reich is probably the best single book I've read on this topic. There are a couple good podcasts on the subject in the Tides of History series that are more up to date.
Ulrich
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My reading/listening suggests that we don't know enough to be particularly certain why the Neanderthals and Denisovans disappeared, all we really know is that they did.

The Neanderthals probably had survival advantages in particular environments- their skeletons suggest that they had larger lung capacity and were extremely strong with blocky builds. Scientists suggest that this enabled them to live more comfortably at higher altitudes with an ambush style of hunting, but that's speculative. Archaeological evidence suggests that they did everything early humans did like art and tools, but not as well; the evidence is pretty scant.

Denisovans have far less remaining physical evidence even than Neanderthals, but they also interbred with humans (potentially giving the Nepalese their high-altitude survival traits along the way) and consisted of many significant subgroups across Asia.
Win At Life
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AG
Athanasius said:

I find the topic fascinating.

Tell me your thoughts and share resources on the fact that other 'species' created art, had burial rituals, mated with humans, etc.

How does this impact the Adam and Eve story?

How does this impact the plan of salvation?

etc...
When discussing these things with a 6-day literalist, I usually challenge them with the fact that their interpretation of Genesis is NOT in fact a literal timeline of events as they happened, but they too, accept a non-literal timeline of Genesis. They deny this of course, so I tell them that if they believe in a literal timeline of Genesis then they must recognize that humans were created in Genesis 1, before Adam and eve were created later in Genesis 2.

That's when you get the "Well, but..." response to the reason their timeline is not literally exact. But if you continue this line of interpretation, then Adam and Eve were maybe not the first "hominids", but the first hominids who were given a "Neshama" (Spirit).
UTExan
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In his 1970s book America, BC, Harvard professor (invertebrate zoology) Barry Fell holds that various inscriptions in stone in the New World were best explained by rather more extensive contact with the Old World than admitted by mainstream academicians. His work was not considered to be very credible, but it posed challenges to mainstream archaeology that were not satisfactorily answered by previously held research conclusions. L A Marzulli expands on that in this video:


It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Sapper Redux
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Fell was not an archeologist. I'm not aware of anyone with subject matter expertise who accepts his arguments.
nortex97
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AG
I'm highly dubious he is (or rather, was) credible, period, about any of this. Pseudo-archaeological is the operative phrase for his work.

LA Marzulli is a charlatan entertainer/writer/director who specializes in aliens. It's unsurprising that "Prophecy Watchers" had him on as a star guest. Gary Stearman is perhaps just a moral millimeter higher than David Koresh on the fake prophet/theologian scum scale.
UTExan
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nortex97 said:

I'm highly dubious he is (or rather, was) credible, period, about any of this. Pseudo-archaeological is the operative phrase for his work.

LA Marzulli is a charlatan entertainer/writer/director who specializes in aliens. It's unsurprising that "Prophecy Watchers" had him on as a star guest. Gary Stearman is perhaps just a moral millimeter higher than David Koresh on the fake prophet/theologian scum scale.


Only one thing to do, then. Report them to the Inquisition for running afoul of your expectations. Marzulli's net worth is not out of the frame for long term investors or property owners, particularly in California real estate.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Rongagin71
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AG
The changelings are back...

Spyderman
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AG
Many believe we are the result of millions of years of selected breeding/genetic manipulation. This fact alone might cause some to think exposing the et reality is not such a good idea. Hence, the ongoing cover-up.
Grab some popcorn...why the ongoing cover-up? The Phenomenon: FF to 1:22:35 https://tubitv.com/movies/632920/the-phenomenon

An est. 68 MILLION Americans, including 19 MILLION Black Children, have been killed in the WOMB since 1973-act, pray and vote accordingly.

TAMU purpose statement: To develop leaders of character dedicated to serving the greater good. Team entrance song at KYLE FIELD is laced with profanity including THE Nword..
The greater good?
BusterAg
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AG
Rongagin71 said:

In Tight Pursuit

I had just finished my second Jamaican Me Happy when the bad idea to take a walk around the beautiful island tempted me to leave the safety of The Tourist Trap Hotel.
The palms and ferns were waving in the balmy breeze, and all seemed nice and gentle when I set out for a short walk around the scenic countryside.
I had only gone about 100 yards when I met a strange little "man" (or maybe it was a dwarf as its humanness was questionable - it had no clothes, walked in a hopping crouch, and was covered in long red hair over dark skin).
I looked at its ape-like face and, wanting to test for intelligence, politely said "hello".
It immediately yelled "uncajunca" and gestured for me to follow as it hopped off down a wide path that I assumed would lead us to a village.
Indeed, we soon arrived at a few squalid huts located around what appeared to be a cave mouth.
Several more of the odd creatures appeared from the huts as my leader parked in front of the cave, where it loudly yelled "uncajunca" a couple of times.
From the cave appeared a much larger version of the hairy beings.
Not only was this second type much larger, it had a remarkable difference maker between its legs.
Apparently, the females were so covered in hair that I it was not until I saw a male that I realized that they were female...but this second guy was definitely a guy.
A gay guy.
Uncle Junkah took one look at me and started leering and beating time eight to the bar.
I started backing off, but he advanced as fast as his already stiff member would allow.
I turned and ran, while he used his long legs to begin a tight pursuit.
I wasn't too worried as I was young and had run cross-country in school. My main concern was not to stumble over some rock or branch in the path.
The following creature exhibited its siccant humor by yelling "uncajunca" on a regular basis which must have cost it some breath as it appeared to slow down.
As it dropped further behind, its hopes faded and so did its natural impediment - but this process let it speed up and soon it was close enough for its hopes to again reignite a turgid reaction.
It was at this point that saw the outskirts of town.
I remembered, from tourist orientation, that there was a police station located somewhere near, and began a fervent hunt for its assumed safety.
After taking several wrong turns and almost getting caught, I ran into the station and slammed the door in Uncle Junkah's face. It stood outside yelling "uncajunca, uncajunca"!
The on-duty cop came over and asked if I needed help.
I was busy holding the door shut but yelped "yes"!
He smiled and pulled a tube of vaseline from his pocket and stuck it in my shirt pocket.
It was at this point that I realized just how different was this culture from my own, and that "uncajunca" was probably a universal cry to help Uncle Junkah.
Desperate, I grabbed the cop's gun out of his loose holster and fired a warning shot through the roof fronds.
Both the cop and the creature took off and I was left to wonder if I should keep the gun or leave it on the police office desk.
I decided to go down fighting so kept the gun and started walking back to the Tourist Trap.
It was getting late as I neared the hotel, and I could hear unmistakable sounds of police activity: sirens followed by peremptory orders.
Creeping through the foliage beside the trail, while wondering how to get back onboard the tourist ship, I slowly approached The Trap.
Then my luck came up aces as I met a young lady of my acquaintance from the ship.
She was escaping down the trail and answered my eager hello with the information that the cops were seeking an armed vigilante that they were sure was a tourist.
She didn't want to be searched so was going to spend the night in her isolated tent near the beach - and she invited me to come with her. This, I was much pleased to do, making full use of the vaseline.
The next day, we avoided the crowd getting on to the tourist ship as the cops were checking everyone.
She knew of a private airport and I was happy to pay for a plane ride to Florida.
Perhaps a law enforcement agency would normally have met the plane, but from what I was told, some VIP named something like Douci, was conducting orangutang/human hybrid experiments on the island and had arranged for us to leave before the situation became more public.
I now suspect the young lady was an agent working for Douci, and that she liked me better than I had any right to expect...I hope to meet her again, but not any more hybrids.
Unless she is a hybrid.





What did I just read?
TRADUCTOR
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Dude almost got ass raped by Jamaican Sasquatch.
Spyderman
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AG


Horse, here is water...
Grab some popcorn...why the ongoing cover-up? The Phenomenon: FF to 1:22:35 https://tubitv.com/movies/632920/the-phenomenon

An est. 68 MILLION Americans, including 19 MILLION Black Children, have been killed in the WOMB since 1973-act, pray and vote accordingly.

TAMU purpose statement: To develop leaders of character dedicated to serving the greater good. Team entrance song at KYLE FIELD is laced with profanity including THE Nword..
The greater good?
Sea Speed
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AG
"Neanderthal Jesus"

Definitely a metal band name.
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