As this board has proven many times abortion affects two people after a given period of time. Some people think that period of time is 0, or conception, when two people are affected. Some people think that period of time is more or less 20 weeks when two people are affected. That really is the meat of the abortion discussion and there is really little middle ground.

This is pretty interesting though. And blue stars mean nothing to me.


https://babylonbee.com/news/biden-unveils-your-body-my-choice-vaccination-program

dermdoc said:

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I actually posted this on the wrong forum. Sorry.

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So? Would that have made posting an action out of context intended to make someone look bad and spread division better ?

Quad Dog said:

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As this board has proven many times abortion affects two people after a given period of time. Some people think that period of time is 0, or conception, when two people are affected. Some people think that period of time is more or less 20 weeks when two people are affected. That really is the meat of the abortion discussion and there is really little middle ground.

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It's always two people. From conception on, conscious life, or one never allowed to begin. I didn't say i never saw a time and place where it's justifiable, but killing is killing, and a life is a life.

Christianity, much less religion, is not necessary to recognize life.

craigernaught said:

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jrico2727 said:

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When you need a vaccine to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated, it's not a vaccine.

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Dear lord.

Partisanship turns people's brains to mush.

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Or I took a direct quote from our dear leader's inspired speech yesterday.

Ag_of_08 said:

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Quad Dog said:

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Not getting a vaccine affects a while lot of other people that aren't yourself.
Not getting a vaccine would be more"My choice, everyone I come into contact with's body"

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Abortion effects two people as well, although the murderers don't seem to acknowledge that

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Two people? Is it a person if it doesn't have a brain and has no cognition by any reasonable definition?

Quad Dog said:

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Not getting a vaccine affects a while lot of other people that aren't yourself.
Not getting a vaccine would be more"My choice, everyone I come into contact with's body"

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Two things, to my knowledge, unvaccinated folks can do little to harm vaccinated folks. Certainly very, very low risk of death.

Abortion results in death 100% of the time. That is its sole purpose.

For the record, I am very pro vaccine and think people who do not get it are running a risk they do not have to take. But this idea that the unvaxxed are hurting vaxxed people has little scientific merit imho.

Granted they are putting an unnecessary load on our hospitals and ers but so are smokers, obese people, addicts, etc. And all of those are preventable behaviors also.

Worries me when the government mandates a medical treatment of any kind.

But we will agree to disagree and again I apologize for not posting this on the right forum.

And I am definitely not trying to pursue blue stars.

If more peoole were vaccinated, wouldn't herd immunity kick in at some point, essentially ending the pandemic as it exists now?

dargscisyhp said:

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If more peoole were vaccinated, wouldn't herd immunity kick in at some point, essentially ending the pandemic as it exists now?

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We would need to get the vaccine to kids before I would think we could approach herd immunity. With the original variant, we might be able to have gotten there with a lower percentage of the population vaccinated. With Delta, we'd need something closer to polio or smallpox vaccine numbers.

dargscisyhp said:

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If more peoole were vaccinated, wouldn't herd immunity kick in at some point, essentially ending the pandemic as it exists now?

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yes, I believe the same would also happen if more people got COVID, but that's neither here nor there.

The issue at hand that I don't understand is why we're pushing all the obligation for personal safety onto someone else. I'm not a small government fan, I like the government telling people what to do as long as I agree with what the issue is; however in this case it doesn't make a lot of sense.

Take the beginning of the pandemic before we had vaccines; instead of telling old and unhealthy people "you need to stay in doors and limit your contact with everyone" we canceled school, and proms, and graduation parties, and restaurants, etc etc. Young people and healthy people were at very little risk of needing medical treatment in the early days of the pandemic, yet we quarantined them and stopped them from having all the fun that everyone else had when they were young, so that old unhealthy people could go out in public.

"Hey, you kids don't go to prom, because I want to make sure that I can rejoin society"

Our reaction to this thing has been absolutely ass backwards from the get-go, so I don't blame people for rebelling.

If you're worried about covid, social distance. You will not catch covid if you lock yourself up in your house and have literally everything delivered to your front door.

dargscisyhp said:

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If more peoole were vaccinated, wouldn't herd immunity kick in at some point, essentially ending the pandemic as it exists now?

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Possibly. No one knows. And I wish everyone would get vaccinated. But it is a huge jump imho to say the unvaxxed are "hurting" physically the vaccinated. And it does seem hypocritical for the the "my body, my choice" crowd is so quick to use government force to mandate a vaccination.

And who knows who the aborted would have become and how they might have benefited society? And I firmly believe abortion has far reaching effects beyond just on the mother, and of course, the unborn baby.

But that is just me. And I respect your opinion though I do not agree with you. That is what makes life fun.

dermdoc said:

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Quad Dog said:

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Not getting a vaccine affects a while lot of other people that aren't yourself.
Not getting a vaccine would be more"My choice, everyone I come into contact with's body"

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Two things, to my knowledge, unvaccinated folks can do little to harm vaccinated folks. Certainly very, very low risk of death.

Abortion results in death 100% of the time. That is its sole purpose.

For the record, I am very pro vaccine and think people who do not get it are running a risk they do not have to take. But this idea that the unvaxxed are hurting vaxxed people has little scientific merit imho.

Granted they are putting an unnecessary load on our hospitals and ers but so are smokers, obese people, addicts, etc. And all of those are preventable behaviors also.

Worries me when the government mandates a medical treatment of any kind.

But we will agree to disagree and again I apologize for not posting this on the right forum.

And I am definitely not trying to pursue blue stars.

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Very low risk of death on individual cases, but it is crazy contagious. So the number of deaths is high because it keeps spreading around. The risk is higher because the rate of infection is higher. 675,000 people are dead in the US.

Unvacced people are providing an opportunity for the virus to spread and mutate past the point where the vaccine is effective. That's how we eradicated other communicable diseases, vaccinating a very large percentage of the population so that the disease had nowhere to spread and mutate.

COVID is putting a much much higher strain on facilities than the things you list. Besides COVID is one thing. Obesity, smoking, addict are blanket things that create dozens of other strains. That one thing is having a huge impact compared to dozens of other things.

The government has been mandating medical treatment since before it was a country. We've lived our entire lives with all kinds of mandated medical treatments, and they are undoubtedly good things.

I'd prefer you apologize for posting something that's straight up a lie instead of the wrong forum.

dermdoc said:

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dargscisyhp said:

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If more peoole were vaccinated, wouldn't herd immunity kick in at some point, essentially ending the pandemic as it exists now?

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Possibly. No one knows.

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Why do you say that? Aren't there epidemiological models that do just that?

Quote:

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But it is a huge jump imho to say the unvaxxed are "hurting" physically the vaccinated.

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Why, if they are the vector that keeps the pandemic going?

Quote:

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And it does seem hypocritical for the the "my body, my choice" crowd is so quick to use government force to mandate a vaccination.

And who knows who the aborted would have become and how they might have benefited society? And I firmly believe abortion has far reaching effects beyond just on the mother, and of course, the unborn baby.

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I know it doesn't seem like it from the other thread (which I forgot I need to respond to), but would it help if I said I am anti-abortion, and that I am also not a fan of government mandated vaccines (though I am a fan of socially pressuring them into it).

dargscisyhp said:

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dermdoc said:

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dargscisyhp said:

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If more peoole were vaccinated, wouldn't herd immunity kick in at some point, essentially ending the pandemic as it exists now?

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Possibly. No one knows.

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Why do you say that? Aren't there epidemiological models that do just that?

Quote:

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But it is a huge jump imho to say the unvaxxed are "hurting" physically the vaccinated.

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Why, if they are the vector that keeps the pandemic going?

Quote:

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And it does seem hypocritical for the the "my body, my choice" crowd is so quick to use government force to mandate a vaccination.

And who knows who the aborted would have become and how they might have benefited society? And I firmly believe abortion has far reaching effects beyond just on the mother, and of course, the unborn baby.

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I know it doesn't seem like it from the other thread (which I forgot I need to respond to), but would it help if I said I am anti-abortion, and that I am also not a fan of government mandated vaccines (though I am a fan of socially pressuring them into it).

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Then we agree.

dermdoc said:

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Then we agree.

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Not on these two points.

Quote:

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Quote:

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Possibly. No one knows.

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Why do you say that? Aren't there epidemiological models that do just that?

Quote:

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But it is a huge jump imho to say the unvaxxed are "hurting" physically the vaccinated.

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Why, if they are the vector that keeps the pandemic going?

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Quote:

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Two people? Is it a person if it doesn't have a brain and has no cognition by any reasonable definition?

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If he/she is alive and has it's own unique human DNA that's not the mothers and will have those things (brain) in the near term? Yes

I am not lying. We just disagree. Relax and quit being so mean spirited please.