Comparing your righteousness to others

2,126 Views | 44 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by dermdoc
VetSurg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG

II Corinthians 10:12
Win At Life
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Martin Q. Blank said:

Win At Life said:

Some of you guys are close, but still missing a key connection. The Pharisees to the Law that was meant to be followed as a way to live at peace with God and mankind, and perverted that into a path to earn salvation. The Law never says to follow the Law in order to earn salvation. That was the bad doctrine of 1st century Judaism Yeshua was trying to show them the absurdity of by taking to its illogical extreme.
I find no evidence that the Pharisees or 1st century Judaism thought this.
My assertion is that first century Judaism was swimming in the bad doctrine of being justified by works of the Law and your assertion is that you see no evidence in the New Testament that speaks against this bad doctrine?
Sully Dog
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Martin Q. Blank said:

I have the general feeling that we shouldn't do that. But Jesus says

For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Matt. 5:20
To be fair the New Testament doesn't paint the best picture of the Pharisees.
Deplorable Neanderthal Clinger
Martin Q. Blank
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Win At Life said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

Win At Life said:

Some of you guys are close, but still missing a key connection. The Pharisees to the Law that was meant to be followed as a way to live at peace with God and mankind, and perverted that into a path to earn salvation. The Law never says to follow the Law in order to earn salvation. That was the bad doctrine of 1st century Judaism Yeshua was trying to show them the absurdity of by taking to its illogical extreme.
I find no evidence that the Pharisees or 1st century Judaism thought this.
My assertion is that first century Judaism was swimming in the bad doctrine of being justified by works of the Law and your assertion is that you see no evidence in the New Testament that speaks against this bad doctrine?
That the Pharisees thought the law was the path to earn salvation? Yah, I don't see it.
Martin Q. Blank
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Zobel said:

I think it is a process which is experienced and lived out in the various ways St Paul describes it. Knowing how you're doing is like anything else in life. St John gives a lot of "by this we know" statements, but you can measure against a benchmark (which is Christ), be in communion and fellowship with others, and have a spiritual father or counselor who can teaching and admonish you, as St Paul says.
Jesus here teaches the benchmark is the Pharisees.
dermdoc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Martin Q. Blank said:

Zobel said:

I think it is a process which is experienced and lived out in the various ways St Paul describes it. Knowing how you're doing is like anything else in life. St John gives a lot of "by this we know" statements, but you can measure against a benchmark (which is Christ), be in communion and fellowship with others, and have a spiritual father or counselor who can teaching and admonish you, as St Paul says.
Jesus here teaches the benchmark is the Pharisees.
And I think He was saying that they were a low benchmark because they did compare each other's righteousness by how well they followed the Law.

I think Christ was saying true righteousness only comes from a change of the heart by the Holy Spirit, not be following the Law.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Martin Q. Blank
How long do you want to ignore this user?
dermdoc said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

Zobel said:

I think it is a process which is experienced and lived out in the various ways St Paul describes it. Knowing how you're doing is like anything else in life. St John gives a lot of "by this we know" statements, but you can measure against a benchmark (which is Christ), be in communion and fellowship with others, and have a spiritual father or counselor who can teaching and admonish you, as St Paul says.
Jesus here teaches the benchmark is the Pharisees.
And I think He was saying that they were a low benchmark because they did compare each other's righteousness by how well they followed the Law.

I think Christ was saying true righteousness only comes from a change of the heart by the Holy Spirit, not be following the Law.
Show me that in the context. It's clear to me he meant them as a high standard.

Change of heart allows following the law. It's not a dichotomy.
Zobel
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
A benchmark, not the benchmark. The public perceived them as super righteous, and so He tells them they have to exceed that. Do you think the righteousness of God exceeds that of the Pharisees?
dermdoc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Martin Q. Blank said:

dermdoc said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

Zobel said:

I think it is a process which is experienced and lived out in the various ways St Paul describes it. Knowing how you're doing is like anything else in life. St John gives a lot of "by this we know" statements, but you can measure against a benchmark (which is Christ), be in communion and fellowship with others, and have a spiritual father or counselor who can teaching and admonish you, as St Paul says.
Jesus here teaches the benchmark is the Pharisees.
And I think He was saying that they were a low benchmark because they did compare each other's righteousness by how well they followed the Law.

I think Christ was saying true righteousness only comes from a change of the heart by the Holy Spirit, not be following the Law.
Show me that in the context. It's clear to me he meant them as a high standard.

Change of heart allows following the law. It's not a dichotomy.


But the covenant changed. Christ said love God, love your neighbor.

Was He less righteous than the Pharisees when he performed miracles on the Sabbath, hung around sinners and unclean people, etc.?

That would have been totally unrighteousness in the eyes of the Pharisees.

No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
dermdoc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
And Paul, Jew of Jews, would have been called unrighteous for writing that all food and drink were okay.

And the Jews who stoned Stephen thought he was a heretic and that they were doing the Will of God and being righteous.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
dermdoc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I was reading my Bible today and came across 2 Corinthians 5:21 and thought I was applicable for this discussion.

God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Refresh
Page 2 of 2
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.