Of course I am

can you explain why you think keeping the fasts as the Lord commanded, and celebrating Passover (called Easter in English, Pascha in other languages) as the Lord, and the apostles did, is somehow incompatible with making disciples of all nations? Because that is what your joke implies.

aggiedad20 said:

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swimmerbabe11 said:

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aggiedad20 said:

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This argument has been around for decades if not longer. We don't need bunnies, baskets or chocolate to have faith in the resurrection. Christ raised from the dead as He promised and the Lord's church gathers every Sunday to worship and memorialize His death burial and resurrection.

"Easter" is a non-biblical distraction. Celebrate it culturally if you like, but not religiously.

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Distraction from what?

Wouldn't celebrating it culturally with bunnies and baskets, but not talking about the resurrection and grace of God be a distraction?

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Materialistic chocolate bunnies and plastic eggs add zero value to the significance of the resurrection. Zero. Materialism has no place in the gospel.

Christians reflect and meditate on the resurrection EVERY SUNDAY during worship assembly. The "Easter"tradition commercialization is recent and unnecessary imo

Christian "holidays" are unscriptural and therefore, unauthorized. Granted, it may make some people feel better about themselves and/or their values, but recognition or celebration of said holidays are utterly worthless in the mission of the church or the plan of salvation.

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We call our mother consistently and think about her and thank her for all the things she does all the time. We love our parents so much.

So of course, on Mother's day when we celebrate extra and make sure to do some extra fun things and emphasize our love for her in specific ways.. that's just a distraction from the daily love and attention that we give to her and what she does for us.

ramblin_ag02 said:

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I mostly agree. The only difference for me is that I observe Passover (and other parts of Torah) because they are Godly. The fact they were first given to Israel and are now followed only by Jews is irrelevant. If I completely believed that God commanded a remote tribe in Indonesia to paint their fingernails, then I'd be getting a manicure tomorrow. I want to make my Father happy, and I know that at least at one point this behavior made Him happy.

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Ramblin, I would be very interested in learning more about your beliefs. Would you be comfortable sharing which group of believers you worship with? Any good books that layout the foundations of your religious beliefs system?

The reason I ask, is that I have never completely understood why modern Christians make no attempt to follow the law. I realize that we are no longer under the law, but, assuming that the law reflects God's attitude towards behavior, why don't we attempt to follow it, at least to some extent, out of love for God?

I think this comes from not really digging into the scriptures as a story arc. Then, when you read what St Paul says about the Torah, combined with the presuppositions the word "law" brings with it, things get really confused.

The Torah had a purpose. It was like a shield, a dome of protection to carve out a space from the world for God to dwell with his people. The world was under the influence of demonic powers and sin, so the Torah pulled a piece out. If the people followed it, God could dwell with them without destroying them. So, it also had what you might call a sin management system - not to fix the problem of sin, but identify it and manage it to enable God to be among them.

The separation is the camp vs the world. Even the dietary restrictions can be viewed in this way - permissible foods were generally animals kept in the camp.

When Jesus rose from the dead He shattered the power over the world and established the kingdom of heaven. And, the sending of the Holy Spirit means God dwells with each of us, not in a place or among people. So the whole dynamic changes. The purpose of the Torah is fulfilled in Christ. The realities of the Torah, the teaching about sin and what humans are called to, how humans should behave in relationship with God and each other doesn't change. But it's amplified, filled up to the brim, overflowing in Christ's teaching.

Jabin said:

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ramblin_ag02 said:

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I mostly agree. The only difference for me is that I observe Passover (and other parts of Torah) because they are Godly. The fact they were first given to Israel and are now followed only by Jews is irrelevant. If I completely believed that God commanded a remote tribe in Indonesia to paint their fingernails, then I'd be getting a manicure tomorrow. I want to make my Father happy, and I know that at least at one point this behavior made Him happy.

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Ramblin, I would be very interested in learning more about your beliefs. Would you be comfortable sharing which group of believers you worship with? Any good books that layout the foundations of your religious beliefs system?

The reason I ask, is that I have never completely understood why modern Christians make no attempt to follow the law. I realize that we are no longer under the law, but, assuming that the law reflects God's attitude towards behavior, why don't we attempt to follow it, at least to some extent, out of love for God?

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I can't speak for ramblin, but as for why all believers (ie Christians), should follow the Law, I would say, because they is Jesus's gospel. In Matthew 5:17 He said anyone who annuls even the least of the commandments or teaches others to annul even the least of the commandments will be least in the Kingdom of Heaven. Therefore, if Jesus preached against stopping any of the commandments He would be a huge liar and hypocrite. Even worse, He would have been a sinner, fallen like you and me, and not a perfect sacrifice to atone for our sins. All would be lost. May it never be! Jesus's gospel, was not, could not, be one of abolishing even the least of the commandments. And the Apostles would not, could not have perverted Jesus's gospel. They had to preach this same gospel, or else they turned against the teachings of Jesus. How can that be? Is Jesus's words true, or are the interpretations about abolishing the Law by men true? Choose this day, whom you will follow. The best book I've seen that addresses this topic is here;

These Things You Should Have Done

aggiedad20 said:

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This argument has been around for decades if not longer. We don't need bunnies, baskets or chocolate to have faith in the resurrection. Christ raised from the dead as He promised and the Lord's church gathers every Sunday to worship and memorialize His death burial and resurrection.

"Easter" is a non-biblical distraction. Celebrate it culturally if you like, but not religiously.

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I grew up in a church that preached that, they used to have a preacher that was in training give a lecture on Easter Sunday that was a highly graphic description of a crucifixion.... always felt like a good run at punishing the people who only showed up on Easter and Christmas to appease the amen pew.

Win At Life said:

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Frok said:

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Making sure I understand the theory:

Wednesday - Crucifixion - Jesus body put in tomb
Thursday - High Day Passover
Friday - This is the day I'm not understanding. What happened on Friday?
Saturday - Passover
Sunday - Resurrection

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Saturday Passover? I'm thinking you did a brain cramp on that one. Saturday is just the regular sabbath. But Saturday evening at sunset is the beginning of first fruit. Yeshua rose as the first fruits, so that timing makes sense and is exactly 3 day and 3 nights from Wednesday at sunset.

Friday was neither a high sabbath nor a regular sabbath. Therefore the women were free to prepare the spices, but they couldn't enter the tomb because the guards were still there as 3 days and 3 nights hadn't passed.

Also, the Thursday being reckoned as a high sabbath, was on the wrong day according to scripture, but it was strenuously enforced by the same Pharisees who just executed Yeshua on trumped up charges, so everyone went along with that.

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Oops, yeah had a brain fart on that.

I forgot about the guards. I guess that explanation is viable.

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Ramblin, I would be very interested in learning more about your beliefs. Would you be comfortable sharing which group of believers you worship with? Any good books that layout the foundations of your religious beliefs system?

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I can't think of any way to answer this question without sounding extremely pretentious and/or writing a book. I'm sort of a broken record around here, and my posts from about 2017 onward are pretty repetitive. I'm sure my future posts will be much the same. I can't recommend a book. I tend to borrow what I like from all the different things I come across. The things that would stand out would be attitude over creed, free will and open theism, and Torah observance. I was heavily involved in a non-denom church before I moved, and have mostly visited a friend's Baptist church recently. I don't really mind different flavors of Christianity as long as they are trinitarian and do God's work.

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The reason I ask, is that I have never completely understood why modern Christians make no attempt to follow the law. I realize that we are no longer under the law, but, assuming that the law reflects God's attitude towards behavior, why don't we attempt to follow it, at least to some extent, out of love for God?

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They don't, because they don't have to. It's not really an integral part of Christianity. The Apostles in Acts specifically said Torah observance wasn't necessary. In the OT it was integral to the relationship between God and Israel, but now it's not. It's always been an option, and indeed many Christians followed Torah to some extent for hundreds of years. But there's a lot of cultural and historical baggage that make people not want to follow it today. That topic has been done a few times here, but it's been awhile if you wanted to start it up again. Maybe we'll see new information or a new perspective.

I would also say that God also loves charity, service, fairness, and mercy, and I think modern Christians do a pretty good job of teaching that. Torah observance isn't a substitue for these things. Since Torah observance isn't necessary for corporate worship like it once was, the only reason I can think to follow it is as a personal conviction. I see it as similar to some of the monastic behaviors or denomination-specific behaviors, but I am confused as to why those people who want to go beyond basic living in order to please God don't just follow Torah.

The Gospels themselves are terribly inconsistent with respect to the passion/crucifixion/resurrection sequences, all. The point of Easter however is to celebrate the resurrection each year. Getting the days/hours right is not particularly materiel, and if it were, God would have made sure the narratives in the Gospels were synchronized.

I recommend Garry Wills book 'What the Gospels Meant" or Raymond Brown's introduction to the New Testament for those seeking to contextualize/understand the chronological (and theological) differences/nuances/criticisms/apologetics.

nortex97 said:

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The Gospels themselves are terribly inconsistent with respect to the passion/crucifixion/resurrection sequences, all. The point of Easter however is to celebrate the resurrection each year. Getting the days/hours right is not particularly materiel, and if it were, God would have made sure the narratives in the Gospels were synchronized.

I recommend Garry Wills book 'What the Gospels Meant" or Raymond Brown's introduction to the New Testament for those seeking to contextualize/understand the chronological (and theological) differences/nuances/criticisms/apologetics.

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Read with Wed crucifixion. Most of that goes away.

Thanks. I can see your point and perspective.