Religion and lots of money

7,300 Views | 151 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by AgLiving06
diehard03
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Quote:

I think it is much more likely that people are attracted the the message of cheap grace preached by many of these mega-churches. It is a very attractive message that makes people feel good.

well, it begs the question on why it's attractive, right? It's not like boenhoffer wrote his masterpiece yesterday after seeing the instagram.

The gospel is offensive in its own right - it doesn't need our help.
Frok
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AG
Quote:

well, it begs the question on why it's attractive, right?


It requires no sacrifice, no life change. It's basically Christian self-help.

I know this from experience.


dermdoc
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AG
Frok said:

dermdoc said:

powerbelly said:

dermdoc said:

And do not get me wrong, I believe in church discipline when a fellow believer hurts others by their behaviors or actions. And in loving confrontation on things like addictions, sexual immorality, etc.

But in my long experience in churches, those examples are not what people are talking about when they say "cheap grace".

Imho, it is usually used to describe folks or churches that Christians do not think are "as Christian" as them. And usually based more on presentation rather than orthodox(little o)theology.
I didn't mean to mis-lead. I think churches across the denominations do an excellent job and there are excellent non-denominational churches as well. These "rich" pastors however are outside of that and are doing a disservice to their flock in my estimation.
So do you know how much John Macarthur is worth? John Piper? Franklin Graham? Or they doing a disservice to their flock?

And not meaning to pick on you because you are a good poster.

And I used to think like you. Maybe I have lost my edge but I sure love Jesus.


John Macarthur certainly does not preach cheap grace. I think that is why many dislike him.




With all due respect, I do not believe that is why I and a lot of other Christians do not like MacArthur.
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dermdoc
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AG
Frok said:

Quote:

well, it begs the question on why it's attractive, right?


It requires no sacrifice, no life change. It's basically Christian self-help.

I know this from experience.





That is a slippery slope imho. I have been a Christian since I was a boy. I got confused when I felt like I had to "change" something.
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diehard03
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Quote:

It requires no sacrifice, no life change. It's basically Christian self-help.

I know this from experience.

That's a general human problem, but I think chalking it up this obfuscates our role in pushing people away from the church.

I think that it's a mischaracterization of individuals who go to those churches as simply seeking cheap grace. Sure some are...but sos the guy who's been to 7 churches and can't find a church home because there's something he disagrees with wherever he goes.

I think that settling for less than the gospel provides (and demands) looks different to many people.
AGC
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AG
dermdoc said:

Frok said:

Quote:

well, it begs the question on why it's attractive, right?


It requires no sacrifice, no life change. It's basically Christian self-help.

I know this from experience.





That is a slippery slope imho. I have been a Christian since I was a boy. I got confused when I felt like I had to "change" something.


But it should be shouldn't it? Sanctification, theosis, you're always changing and becoming more like Christ.
dermdoc
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AG
AGC said:

dermdoc said:

Frok said:

Quote:

well, it begs the question on why it's attractive, right?


It requires no sacrifice, no life change. It's basically Christian self-help.

I know this from experience.





That is a slippery slope imho. I have been a Christian since I was a boy. I got confused when I felt like I had to "change" something.


But it should be shouldn't it? Sanctification, theosis, you're always changing and becoming more like Christ.


Sure. The problem I have is when Lordship salvation preachers tell us how we should change. And if it does not fit their template, you are damned.

Go read some Chan, MacArthur, or Piper. If people accept Christ and continue to smoke cigs, etc. they are not really saved.
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Frok
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AG
dermdoc said:

Frok said:

Quote:

well, it begs the question on why it's attractive, right?


It requires no sacrifice, no life change. It's basically Christian self-help.

I know this from experience.





That is a slippery slope imho. I have been a Christian since I was a boy. I got confused when I felt like I had to "change" something.


We are absolutely called to change. Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is near.

And you really should stop smoking, those things will kill you
dermdoc
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AG
I do not smoke.
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AGC
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AG
dermdoc said:

AGC said:

dermdoc said:

Frok said:

Quote:

well, it begs the question on why it's attractive, right?


It requires no sacrifice, no life change. It's basically Christian self-help.

I know this from experience.





That is a slippery slope imho. I have been a Christian since I was a boy. I got confused when I felt like I had to "change" something.


But it should be shouldn't it? Sanctification, theosis, you're always changing and becoming more like Christ.


Sure. The problem I have is when Lordship salvation preachers tell us how we should change. And if it does not fit their template, you are damned.

Go read some Chan, MacArthur, or Piper. If people accept Christ and continue to smoke cigs, etc. they are not really saved.


I'm reformed Episcopalian. These are not the priests you're looking for. You may go about your business. Move along.
dermdoc
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AG
AGC said:

dermdoc said:

Frok said:

Quote:

well, it begs the question on why it's attractive, right?


It requires no sacrifice, no life change. It's basically Christian self-help.

I know this from experience.





That is a slippery slope imho. I have been a Christian since I was a boy. I got confused when I felt like I had to "change" something.


But it should be shouldn't it? Sanctification, theosis, you're always changing and becoming more like Christ.
You are correct.
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dermdoc
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AG
AGC said:

dermdoc said:

AGC said:

dermdoc said:

Frok said:

Quote:

well, it begs the question on why it's attractive, right?


It requires no sacrifice, no life change. It's basically Christian self-help.

I know this from experience.





That is a slippery slope imho. I have been a Christian since I was a boy. I got confused when I felt like I had to "change" something.


But it should be shouldn't it? Sanctification, theosis, you're always changing and becoming more like Christ.


Sure. The problem I have is when Lordship salvation preachers tell us how we should change. And if it does not fit their template, you are damned.

Go read some Chan, MacArthur, or Piper. If people accept Christ and continue to smoke cigs, etc. they are not really saved.


I'm reformed Episcopalian. These are not the priests you're looking for. You may go about your business. Move along.
And I read the Anglican book of common prayer morning prayer rite every morning. Beautiful material.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
AgLiving06
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AGC said:

dermdoc said:

AGC said:

dermdoc said:

Frok said:

Quote:

well, it begs the question on why it's attractive, right?


It requires no sacrifice, no life change. It's basically Christian self-help.

I know this from experience.





That is a slippery slope imho. I have been a Christian since I was a boy. I got confused when I felt like I had to "change" something.


But it should be shouldn't it? Sanctification, theosis, you're always changing and becoming more like Christ.


Sure. The problem I have is when Lordship salvation preachers tell us how we should change. And if it does not fit their template, you are damned.

Go read some Chan, MacArthur, or Piper. If people accept Christ and continue to smoke cigs, etc. they are not really saved.


I'm reformed Episcopalian. These are not the droids you're looking for. You may go about your business. Move along.

Couldn't help it.


 
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