The cross as a neckless or decoration

2,234 Views | 31 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Zobel
Martin Q. Blank
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Is this weird to anyone else? If Jesus were executed 100 years ago, would we put electric chairs on our walls? Or him hanging from a noose on chains around our neck?
Pro Sandy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The cross is a powerful thing. The romans used it for death, but God used it to bring life.

We dont use it as a sign of death, but a sign of victory over death.
PacifistAg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Pro Sandy said:

The cross is a powerful thing. The romans used it for death, but God used it to bring life.

We dont use it as a sign of death, but a sign of victory over death.
Exactly. It's a symbol of the most beautiful act of love mankind has ever seen. It reminds me of His victory through the self-sacrificial love He displayed on the cross.
Martin Q. Blank
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Pro Sandy said:

The cross is a powerful thing. The romans used it for death, but God used it to bring life.

We dont use it as a sign of death, but a sign of victory over death.
The cross didn't bring Jesus back to life.

My question remains, would you put an electric chair on your wall or a needle considering our government uses those means to execute today?
jrico2727
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Martin Q. Blank said:

Pro Sandy said:

The cross is a powerful thing. The romans used it for death, but God used it to bring life.

We dont use it as a sign of death, but a sign of victory over death.
The cross didn't bring Jesus back to life.

My question remains, would you put an electric chair on your wall or a needle considering our government uses those means to execute today?
If the son of God died for our sins with those instruments of death we would. As a Catholic we often will wear or have crucifixes with our Lord on the Cross. This certainly helps focus the attention to Christ as our savior versus his form of execution.

I am reminded of a story I once heard of a woman who sent to stay with a religious order to become a nun. When she was given her room. There was a crucifix and a cross without the corpus on the wall, she asked why she was given both. The mother superior told her that the crucifix is to remind you his cross and the empty cross is to remind you of yours.

I think it is important to not only see the cross as a sign of victory, but as a reminder that as a Christian we are to daily take up our Cross and follow Our Lord.
chimpanzee
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Martin Q. Blank said:

Pro Sandy said:

The cross is a powerful thing. The romans used it for death, but God used it to bring life.

We dont use it as a sign of death, but a sign of victory over death.
The cross didn't bring Jesus back to life.

My question remains, would you put an electric chair on your wall or a needle considering our government uses those means to execute today?
Many put the crucifix over their altars, a graphic depiction of the very act of execution, blood an all. There's a couple thousand years of context in the symbolism there. I don't think I could equate a change to it from a clean sheet and do justice to the meaningfulness of this particular symbol.

BrazosBendHorn
How long do you want to ignore this user?
On a related note ...

Back in my college days a friend of mine who was RC was fond of telling this joke to his Protestant friends ...

MQ: It's lucky for us Catholics that Jesus was crucified instead of stoned to death.
BBH: How do you figure?
MQ: Because He was crucified, we make the Sign of the Cross, like this [demonstrates]. If He had been stoned, we'd have to do this [pummels himself with fists]
Aggrad08
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
If you look at the odd behavior involved in a week of religious practice wearing an ancient torture device around your neck is pretty low on the list if you ask me.
Serotonin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Martin Q. Blank said:

Is this weird to anyone else? If Jesus were executed 100 years ago, would we put electric chairs on our walls? Or him hanging from a noose on chains around our neck?
Does your church have a cross on the sign outside, or inside anywhere?

Would it have a noose or electric chair on the church signage if Jesus was executed 100 years ago?

Would your Bible have a gold engraved electric chair on the cover?
Zobel
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I think part of the reason the cross is so powerful is because it was a horrible, humiliating, public, incredibly painful and violent way to die. Lethal injection or electric chair don't come close.
Pro Sandy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Martin Q. Blank said:

Pro Sandy said:

The cross is a powerful thing. The romans used it for death, but God used it to bring life.

We dont use it as a sign of death, but a sign of victory over death.
The cross didn't bring Jesus back to life.

My question remains, would you put an electric chair on your wall or a needle considering our government uses those means to execute today?
If Christ died by those means, then yes.

As Peter writes, ""He himself bore our sins" in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; "by his wounds you have been healed." For "you were like sheep going astray," but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls."

The cross meant for death, was used to bring life. By His death, we have life.
nortex97
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG

Quote:

Where is death's sting, where grave thy victory?


To quote the greatest hymn of all time.
Zobel
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
You mean the book of Hosea?
Patriot101
How long do you want to ignore this user?
If only the tomb with a stone rolled away was a thing.

It's just probably not as aesthetically pleasing to the eye.
Cancelled
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The cross was an important symbol prior to the crucifixion
spud1910
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I have wondered how our affection for the cross fits in with "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image"
Zobel
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
It doesn't apply. The Hebrew word has nuance, something carved, but the word in this context means idol - the LXX is quite clear (eidolon). We are not to have other gods before Him, or make an idol. There is no general prohibition of images, and images were used (and were God-pleasing) in the Temple. The cross is not an idol.
spud1910
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Zobel said:

It doesn't apply. The Hebrew word has nuance, something carved, but the word in this context means idol - the LXX is quite clear (eidolon). We are not to have other gods before Him, or make an idol. There is no general prohibition of images, and images were used (and were God-pleasing) in the Temple. The cross is not an idol.
"You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."

Thank you. And for the verse above?
Zobel
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The word "carved image" in Hebrew means idol. In the Septuagint in Greek it simply says idol, "eidolon". The verse is a prohibition against making idols, which is why it follows the verse about having no other gods.

It doesn't mean you can't make a statue or paint a picture. The Temple had carvings of Cherubim, palm trees, and flowers.
spud1910
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Thank you. My Hebrew is not great. The whole "any likeness of anything" is what gives me question. But English is not my wife's first language. That has taught me that translations often leave much to be desired.
Zobel
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The Septuagint is much clearer, especially if you don't pull the verse away from the verses which come before and after. (chapter and verse didn't get introduced til a few centuries ago).


Frok
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
A cross of much more decorative than an electric chair
Solo Tetherball Champ
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Martin Q. Blank said:

Is this weird to anyone else? If Jesus were executed 100 years ago, would we put electric chairs on our walls? Or him hanging from a noose on chains around our neck?

I don't quite disagree here.

Personally, I've thought that the empty tomb is be a better symbol of that victory. But I've got nearly two millennia of iconography competing against me here.
Zobel
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The fathers also got pretty excited about passages like Ezekiel 9:4, where the word for "mark" is literally "tov" which in ancient times was a t, or cross.

I don't think you can show the empty tomb without the cross. He doesn't teach us that the moment of victory was when He was raised, but when He was killed, when He was lifted up on the pole (John 3:14, John 8:28, John 12:32-33). It was finished as He died. St Paul didn't characterize his gospel as Christ resurrected, but Christ crucified (1 Corinthians 1:18,23, 2:2, Gal 3:1).

We share the sufferings of Christ (2 Cor 1:5), we carry the death of Jesus in our body, (2 Cor 4:10) and we fill up in our body what is lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions (Col 1:24) and rejoice as we share in his suffering (1 Peter 4:13).

I'm not arguing against the Resurrection as the exclamation mark, but it's the promise we look towards. We participate in the suffering, so that we may receive the life that He was the firstfruits of. If we unite with Him in death, we will be united with Him in His resurrection (Romans 6:5,8). So in that regard I think the cross is apropos.

I really like jrico2727's post that the cross represents both His cross and our own. Very insightful.

Solo Tetherball Champ
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Zobel said:

The fathers also got pretty excited about passages like Ezekiel 9:4, where the word for "mark" is literally "tov" which in ancient times was a t, or cross.

I don't think you can show the empty tomb without the cross. He doesn't teach us that the moment of victory was when He was raised, but when He was killed, when He was lifted up on the pole (John 3:14, John 8:28, John 12:32-33). It was finished as He died. St Paul didn't characterize his gospel as Christ resurrected, but Christ crucified (1 Corinthians 1:18,23, 2:2, Gal 3:1).

We share the sufferings of Christ (2 Cor 1:5), we carry the death of Jesus in our body, (2 Cor 4:10) and we fill up in our body what is lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions (Col 1:24) and rejoice as we share in his suffering (1 Peter 4:13).

I'm not arguing against the Resurrection as the exclamation mark, but it's the promise we look towards. We participate in the suffering, so that we may receive the life that He was the firstfruits of. If we unite with Him in death, we will be united with Him in His resurrection (Romans 6:5,8). So in that regard I think the cross is apropos.

I really like jrico2727's post that the cross represents both His cross and our own. Very insightful.

I understand that.

The distinction to me is that many people were crucified. But there was only one resurrection.
jrico2727
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
We share the sufferings of Christ (2 Cor 1:5), we carry the death of Jesus in our body, (2 Cor 4:10) and we fill up in our body what is lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions (Col 1:24) and rejoice as we share in his suffering (1 Peter 4:13).


I'm not arguing against the Resurrection as the exclamation mark, but it's the promise we look towards. We participate in the suffering, so that we may receive the life that He was the firstfruits of. If we unite with Him in death, we will be united with Him in His resurrection (Romans 6:5,8). So in that regard I think the cross is apropos.

This is very well put.

We have a tradition of making doing a morning offering prayer. I think it would be beneficial for everyone to have a similar practice. It is a way to unite your entire self to Christ. We are instructed to pray always. By offering your day to the Lord, your entire day is a prayer.

Jason C.
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Plus, from a poetic and biblical and just awesome sense, it *had* to be something *wooden*. The cross is made from wood, a tree.

Just as man fell in the Garden and a life lived with God was closed off from eating the flesh of the fruit of the tree in the Garden, man is brought given another shot at eternal life with God by eating Jesus' flesh, the fruit of the cross/tree (John 6).
PabloSerna
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Good call there Jason!

Was thinking the same thing. The Bible is full of this type of imagery and connection:

1. Adam - Jesus
2. Mana - bread of life

on and on - would make a good thread unto itself! Hmmm...


PabloSerna
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Patriot101 said:

If only the tomb with a stone rolled away was a thing.

It's just probably not as aesthetically pleasing to the eye.

That's a good point, but I guess the thinking is in Jesus' victory over death.

Zobel
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Hmm.. but not simply death. Not any death... His crucifixion was the ultimate victory. If they knew what He was going to do, they would not have crucified Him. He came in poverty, humility, weakness and died in a way that was complete foolishness to the Powers. And that's exactly why it was the triumph. It wasn't only that He died, but how, and who He was. He completely took everything the Lord had been preaching from the beginning and used it to invert the world's understanding of power, beauty, strength. So we take that instrument of death and make it our sign of victory. To show once for all that the God of power who created everything is the God of widows, orphans, the poor, the refuse of society. The cross is the dot on the exclamation mark of that upending of everything the world assumes.
Martin Cash
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Martin Q. Blank said:

Is this weird to anyone else? If Jesus were executed 100 years ago, would we put electric chairs on our walls? Or him hanging from a noose on chains around our neck?
Stolen from George Carlin
Solo Tetherball Champ
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Zobel said:

Hmm.. but not simply death. Not any death... His crucifixion was the ultimate victory. If they knew what He was going to do, they would not have crucified Him. He came in poverty, humility, weakness and died in a way that was complete foolishness to the Powers. And that's exactly why it was the triumph. It wasn't only that He died, but how, and who He was. He completely took everything the Lord had been preaching from the beginning and used it to invert the world's understanding of power, beauty, strength. So we take that instrument of death and make it our sign of victory. To show once for all that the God of power who created everything is the God of widows, orphans, the poor, the refuse of society. The cross is the dot on the exclamation mark of that upending of everything the world assumes.
Who's "they"?
Zobel
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The rulers of this age, i.e., the demonic powers who are in opposition to God.


Quote:

When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. My message and my preaching were not with persuasive words of wisdom, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that your faith would not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power. Among the mature, however, we speak a message of wisdom - but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. No, we speak of the mysterious and hidden wisdom of God, which He destined for our glory before time began. None of the rulers of this age understood it. For if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Refresh
Page 1 of 1
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.