Ravi Zacharias Ministries - interim statement & report

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PacifistAg
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4:59p, 12/27/20
AG


Quote:

Sadly, the interim investigation update indicates this assessment of Ravi's behavior to be truethat he did indeed engage in sexual misconduct.

This misconduct is deeply troubling and wholly inconsistent with the man Ravi Zacharias presented both publicly and privately to so many over more than four decades of public ministry. We are heartbroken at learning this but feel it necessary to be transparent and to inform our staff, donors, and supporters at this time, even while the investigation continues. We will speak more comprehensively to all concerned after the completion of the investigation.

My prayers go out to his victims, including his family.
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Patriot101
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5:38p, 12/27/20
Me, too. Thanks for always keeping us updated with spiritual leaders apparent sins.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to Patriot101 • 5:39p, 12/27/20
AG
Are we not supposed to talk about this? This is kind of a big story in the church.
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Frok
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5:55p, 12/27/20
AG
This one hurts. I really liked Ravi.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to Frok • 6:07p, 12/27/20
AG
I honestly haven't read any of his stuff. Knew the name though.

I'm not sure what led him down the path of sexual abuse, or exactly when it started. From what I've read, there were whispers of this for several years. I can't speak to his case specifically, and this may not apply, but in a general sense we seem to see this far too often when celebrity stunts accountability. Again, no idea if that applies here.
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Patriot101
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6:09p, 12/27/20
"He was a lifelong minister of the Christian and Missionary Alliance, the Keswickian Christian denomination in which he was ordained. Zacharias has been accused of exaggerating his academic qualifications and multiple sources accuse Zacharias of sexual misconduct."

Speechless. This is what came up when I googled it.
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Frok
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In reply to PacifistAg • 6:22p, 12/27/20
AG
PacifistAg said:
I honestly haven't read any of his stuff. Knew the name though.

I'm not sure what led him down the path of sexual abuse, or exactly when it started. From what I've read, there were whispers of this for several years. I can't speak to his case specifically, and this may not apply, but in a general sense we seem to see this far too often when celebrity stunts accountability. Again, no idea if that applies here.


Ravi was one of the top Christian apologists that I followed. He passed away earlier this year from cancer and then these accusations came out afterwards. I don't know many details but RZIM is his ministry and from what I understand they conducted this investigation.

I think Satan attacks leadership and if you don't have good accountability in place you risk falling into temptation. It's really sad and massively disappointing what is coming out about this. A good reminder to protect ourselves against temptation.
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Patriot101
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6:25p, 12/27/20
Hope we aren't breaking the ninth commandment.
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Frok
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In reply to Patriot101 • 6:32p, 12/27/20
AG
RZIM is his ministry and they are confirming that some of the allegations appear to be true. That to me means they are likely credible.
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AgLiving06
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In reply to Frok • 6:44p, 12/27/20
From what I've read, plenty knew about Ravi's "issues" and actively covered it up. This included a cash payout of $250k to victims to silence them.

This seems like an all too common scenario of a man being bigger than the "ministry." I put ministry in quotes because it's not just religion where this happens but in lots of organizations where the head is larger than life before falling from grace. I suspect others knew, but really liked the paycheck they were getting vs doing what was right.

Here's a decent twitter thread and article:

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PacifistAg
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In reply to AgLiving06 • 6:51p, 12/27/20
AG
Yeah, I know there's a lot of calls for RZIM to release LoriAnne from her NDA.
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Patriot101
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7:00p, 12/27/20
Gotcha.
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UTExan
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12:19a, 12/28/20
Very sad to hear. He was a wonderful leader in apologetics. If true, the flaws of the leaders should have been dealt with and repentance should have been forthcoming.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
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ramblin_ag02
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8:27a, 12/28/20
AG
I liked listening to Zacharias, and I used to do it quite a bit. I hate to hear about this sort of thing, but I don't know why I'm surprised anymore. It's also weird to try and process this sort of thing when the offender is already dead. Whoever helped cover it up should be punished, for sure. It's just hard to wrap my head around the people who work in a church or ministry and think it's a good idea to attack or pay off victims.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to ramblin_ag02 • 8:30a, 12/28/20
AG
I agree. I think there needs to be a very long look into the board of RZIM to find out what they knew and when they knew it. They may have been caught completely off guard, but as we see with the Carl Lentz and Falwell situations, there tends to be an element of brushing things under rugs before it all blows up.
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diehard03
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9:50a, 12/28/20
Quote:
It's just hard to wrap my head around the people who work in a church or ministry and think it's a good idea to attack or pay off victims.

it's amazing what people will condone or outright do when they believe they have a mandate from God.
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UTExan
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In reply to PacifistAg • 11:24a, 12/28/20
PacifistAg said:
I agree. I think there needs to be a very long look into the board of RZIM to find out what they knew and when they knew it. They may have been caught completely off guard, but as we see with the Carl Lentz and Falwell situations, there tends to be an element of brushing things under rugs before it all blows up.
Michels' Iron Law of Oligarchy:

An organization that grows large enough soon develops a centralized bureaucracy with consolidated power and ultimately has one prime objective above all others: its own survival. Now that RZ has passed, that motive may be gone.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
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A New Hope
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8:14p, 12/28/20
Never underestimate temptation. Read the screw tape letters. It's almost laughable if it weren't so obvious. Yet so hard to protect yourself from.
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swimmerbabe11
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7:41p, 12/29/20
yeah this makes me sad. i heard some of his stuff and was impressed with his tone and ability to tell stories and convey Christian love even when I disagreed with his theology.


just a reminder that all fall short of the glory and are in desperate need of mercy and grace. Kyrie Eleison.
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Macarthur
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3:23p, 12/30/20
He always seemed like a very nice guy, but as a nonbeliever, his apologetics always seemed very etherial (maybe not the right word) and whimsical. He always said a lot of words, some of them sounding wonderful, but seemed really hard to pin down some sort of meaning.
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Redstone
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11:14a, 1/2/21
AG
We are all tempted by sex and the cult of personality should they be placed in front of us.

Carry your Cross.
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Not a Bot
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12:31a, 1/23/21
AG
This is a really good podcast that focuses on drawing attention to some of the horrible things going on in large ministries. She did an episode on Ravi not too long ago.

https://julieroys.com/podcast/atheist-explains-his-investigation-of-ravi-zacharias/

He would even lie about his own background during sermons. He lied about having a teaching position at Oxford and a degree from Cambridge (or vice versa, I can't remember). It was things like that, which were easily verifiable, that few bothered to follow up on.

I'm not sure if it's on this episode of the podcast or a different one where they do a deep dive into how most radio "ministries" are basically just a big money grab. When they talk about needing money to stay on the air and meeting expenses, what they are really doing with the money is pocketing most of it.
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Frok
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8:55a, 1/23/21
AG
Man, just shocked. We need accountability in our lives.
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UTExan
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In reply to Not a Bot • 11:39a, 1/23/21
Well, this is the "exposure of corruption" often alluded to by prophetic types. This will ultimately be good for the church in America as corruption is rooted out.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
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Year of the Germaphobe
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3:51p, 1/24/21
AG
A flawed messenger does not diminish the value of the message. We should be careful in our judgements.
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PacifistAg
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7:46p, 2/11/21
AG
The full report is out. It sounds worse than imagined.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2021/february/ravi-zacharias-rzim-investigation-sexual-abuse-sexting-rape.html
Quote:

A 12-page report released Thursday by Ravi Zacharias International Ministries (RZIM) confirms abuse by Zacharias at day spas he owned in Atlanta and uncovers five additional victims in the US, as well as evidence of sexual abuse in Thailand, India, and Malaysia.

Even a limited review of Zacharias's old devices revealed contacts for more than 200 massage therapists in the US and Asia and hundreds of images of young women, including some that showed the women naked. Zacharias solicited and received photos until a few months before his death in May 2020 at age 74.

Zacharias used tens of thousands of dollars of ministry funds dedicated to a "humanitarian effort" to pay four massage therapists, providing them housing, schooling, and monthly support for extended periods of time, according to investigators.

One woman told the investigators that "after he arranged for the ministry to provide her with financial support, he required sex from her." She called it rape.

Quote:
She said Zacharias "made her pray with him to thank God for the 'opportunity' they both received" and, as with other victims, "called her his 'reward' for living a life of service to God," the report says. Zacharias warned the womana fellow believerif she ever spoke out against him, she would be responsible for millions of souls lost when his reputation was damaged.

Quote:
In Bangkok, he owned two apartments in the early 2010s, sharing a building with one of his massage therapists, the investigators found. The notes app on his phone included Thai and Mandarin translations of phrases like "I'd like to have a beautiful memory with you," "little bit further," and "your lips are especially beautiful."

It's a long article with so many more accounts of his sexual abuse.
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bmks270
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In reply to PacifistAg • 9:59p, 2/11/21
AG
Shocking.

Day spas, really, I mean that is not at all discreet.

Messages is the same tactic used by Epstein.

RZs manipulation through the inference of eternal consequences is especially twisted.
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Cassius
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In reply to Redstone • 2:26p, 2/12/21
Redstone said:
We are all tempted by sex and the cult of personality should they be placed in front of us.

Carry your Cross.


Agree.

Also I thought OP was leaving this board.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to Cassius • 4:23p, 2/12/21
AG
Cassius said:
Redstone said:
We are all tempted by sex and the cult of personality should they be placed in front of us.

Carry your Cross.


Agree.

Also I thought OP was leaving this board.
I had considered it, but then the person who attempted to dox me was rightfully banned. Not sure what that has to do with anything here though.
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Bryanisbest
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11:05a, 2/15/21
AG
Ravi like the rest of us- a sinner saved by Grace. Not surprised by him, me or you. He still did some great work just like you.
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RebAg13
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In reply to Bryanisbest • 11:40a, 2/15/21
AG
Agree but those quotes are really tough to hear
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Macarthur
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In reply to Bryanisbest • 12:29p, 2/15/21
Bryanisbest said:
Ravi like the rest of us- a sinner saved by Grace. Not surprised by him, me or you. He still did some great work just like you.

Sorry but this seems more than a bit twisted.

Doesn't there have to be some threshold of 'sinner'?

chalking this up to, 'yeah, we all do bad things and need saving, but he did do some great stuff' would lead down a very dark path.
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Bryanisbest
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In reply to Macarthur • 2:19p, 2/15/21
AG
Macarthur said:
Bryanisbest said:
Ravi like the rest of us- a sinner saved by Grace. Not surprised by him, me or you. He still did some great work just like you.

Sorry but this seems more than a bit twisted.

Doesn't there have to be some threshold of 'sinner'?

chalking this up to, 'yeah, we all do bad things and need saving, but he did do some great stuff' would lead down a very dark path.



You're probably right about me on that . I just get tired of people judging others when we all have a tremendous problem with Sin. Some sins like self-righteousness is acceptable in society but sexual sin is not. One of our greatest Americans in history was a womanizer. MLK Jr. But God used him mightily. After all Jesus said to the self-righteous Pharisees in Matt 21, "The thieves and harlots will go into the kingdom of Heaven before you do."
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Cassius
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In reply to Bryanisbest • 2:30p, 2/15/21
I get your point. I try to never harshly judge those who fall. I get that ministers are tempted like we all are. I've seen ministers ruin their lives by getting involved in an affair.

But in this case, it wasn't a single incident. It was a pattern over a long period of time. On top of that, he's in a leadership role, teaching others. It's a terrible thing. I'm not as upset about the sin as I am that he was a teacher while doing it. That's the more serious offense.
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Bryanisbest
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In reply to Cassius • 2:37p, 2/15/21
AG
Cassius said:
I get your point. I try to never harshly judge those who fall. I get that ministers are tempted like we all are. I've seen ministers ruin their lives by getting involved in an affair.

But in this case, it wasn't a single incident. It was a pattern over a long period of time. On top of that, he's in a leadership role, teaching others. It's a terrible thing. I'm not as upset about the sin as I am that he was a teacher while doing it. That's the more serious offense.


Gotcha. It is interesting that the only sin Jesus ever publicly confronted was religious sin.
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