On my past, your past, and other believers in America's past...

1,142 Views | 7 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Patriot101
Patriot101
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Revelation 12:10

"10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God."
Patriot101
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Philippians 3:13-14 ESV

."13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus."
PacifistAg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
What does this have to do with America?
UTExan
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I am a big believer in covenants of believers with God at a national level as well: the old pre-apartheid Afrikaners with their Die Geloftetag or the Tongans with their royal proclamation that their homeland belongs to Jesus Christ alone or America with the pilgrims or the Cape Henry declaration in Virginia.
But, as happens in all human societies, the descendants enjoy peace and prosperity and become more attuned to their fleshly desire than the things of God. In the Old Testament, God warned Israel what would happen if they forgot Him and went after idols.

America is no different. Those who are Christian (sincerely and not out of social convenience or community context) are a minority. Our churches are to blame for this because they no longer teach personal holiness. So churches have evolved to becoming "affirming" institutions who are careful not to preach conviction of sin with Holy Spirit unction (as opposed to emotional abuse/manipulation). They are places where people primarily in pursuit of social justice objectives are comfortable because they will seldom if ever be confronted with the need to personally repent of their own sins before God. The early evangelicals such as Wesley and Whitefield did preach such repentance. And periodic revival is necessary to refresh the church. I pray that out of the current turmoil in the US, a new revival across denominations will be born to bring people to Christ.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Patriot101
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Agreed. Now I do not think God favors any nation state. He only favors those who fear him and obey him.

The covenant that we call the constitution was a result of borrowing from covenantal theology by people like John Locke.

The descendants of the Puritans in America got on board with the concept because it was to our posterity. It echoes " to our children's children. "

The reformed Pilgrims, for instance, fled to the new world when the Church of England was no longer favorable to those trying to purify the church (the reformed Puritans). Their descendants got on board with the foundation laid by reformed Roger Williams in Rhode Island, eventually, because they didn't want a Church of England type situation again. So Christians got on board with the constitutional (covenant) merger with the separation of church and state.
Patriot101
How long do you want to ignore this user?
and by "believers in America's past"...I meant Christians in America's past. It may be a double entendre?
So, I just went with it in the previous post. Oops.
ramblin_ag02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
UTExan said:

I am a big believer in covenants of believers with God at a national level as well: the old pre-apartheid Afrikaners with their Die Geloftetag or the Tongans with their royal proclamation that their homeland belongs to Jesus Christ alone or America with the pilgrims or the Cape Henry declaration in Virginia.
But, as happens in all human societies, the descendants enjoy peace and prosperity and become more attuned to their fleshly desire than the things of God. In the Old Testament, God warned Israel what would happen if they forgot Him and went after idols.

America is no different. Those who are Christian (sincerely and not out of social convenience or community context) are a minority. Our churches are to blame for this because they no longer teach personal holiness. So churches have evolved to becoming "affirming" institutions who are careful not to preach conviction of sin with Holy Spirit unction (as opposed to emotional abuse/manipulation). They are places where people primarily in pursuit of social justice objectives are comfortable because they will seldom if ever be confronted with the need to personally repent of their own sins before God. The early evangelicals such as Wesley and Whitefield did preach such repentance. And periodic revival is necessary to refresh the church. I pray that out of the current turmoil in the US, a new revival across denominations will be born to bring people to Christ.
I don't think the word "covenant" is appropriate to use here. Countries can certainly dedicate themselves to God at a national level. There are plenty of officially Christian nations across the world. However, "covenants" are mutual agreements between two active parties were obligations, responsibilities and benefits are set. So we have the Noahide Covenant, the Abrahamic Covenant, the Mosaic Covenant, the New Covenant, and various other smaller covenants like the one God made with the Rechabites. You'll notice that in every instance God is the one initiating the covenant, making the promises, and setting the terms of the agreement. None of these people or nations went to God with covenant terms and then He accepted it. It's always a unilateral act of grace that we can accept or refuse.

None of that applies to the US or any other modern country. God has not come to any modern nation and offered them a covenant. As a Christian I think it's fantastic when countries dedicate themselves to God and Christian principles, but let's not puff ourselves up by claiming we have some sort of unique "covenant" with God
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
FTACo88-FDT24dad
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
UTExan said:

I am a big believer in covenants of believers with God at a national level as well: the old pre-apartheid Afrikaners with their Die Geloftetag or the Tongans with their royal proclamation that their homeland belongs to Jesus Christ alone or America with the pilgrims or the Cape Henry declaration in Virginia.
But, as happens in all human societies, the descendants enjoy peace and prosperity and become more attuned to their fleshly desire than the things of God. In the Old Testament, God warned Israel what would happen if they forgot Him and went after idols.

America is no different. Those who are Christian (sincerely and not out of social convenience or community context) are a minority. Our churches are to blame for this because they no longer teach personal holiness. So churches have evolved to becoming "affirming" institutions who are careful not to preach conviction of sin with Holy Spirit unction (as opposed to emotional abuse/manipulation). They are places where people primarily in pursuit of social justice objectives are comfortable because they will seldom if ever be confronted with the need to personally repent of their own sins before God. The early evangelicals such as Wesley and Whitefield did preach such repentance. And periodic revival is necessary to refresh the church. I pray that out of the current turmoil in the US, a new revival across denominations will be born to bring people to Christ.


I am Catholic and I think you are spot on, and that goes for the Catholic Church as well.

The words of Jesus are quite clear and unambiguous:

Matthew 12:36-37, Jesus said, "On the day of judgment men will render account for every careless word they utter; for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

Revelation 2:23, Jesus says, "I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you as your works deserve."

Jesus' answer to the question "What good deed must I do, to have eternal life?" (Matt. 19:16). Rather than merely saying, "Have faith in God" or "Believe in me," Jesus tells the young man, "If you would enter life, keep the commandments" (Matt. 19:17).

Finally, Matthew's description of Jesus at the final judgment casting out the goats who failed to feed, clothe, visit, and care for "the least of these my brethren" (Matt. 25:40), and receiving the sheep who did do these things (Matt. 25:31-46).
Patriot101
How long do you want to ignore this user?
https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2371&context=journal_articles

University of Chicago Law School

"Covenants and Constitutions"

Refresh
Page 1 of 1
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.