I dare not go over to 16. And since there's a thread on here about Christians voting democrat, I feel safe posting this here.

I strongly disagree with those that try to make some sort of equivalency here. I've seen several of my 'friends' on FB that complain about voting for either.

If last night did not show you this is a clear choice, nothing ever will. One candidate is a vile, self absorbed grifter and one is a career politician that has some warts but is a decent guy by political standards. And I think it's really interesting against the backdrop of this being a religious forum. I guess if abortion is the be all end all, so be it, but Joe is a practicing Christian that speaks often about his faith.

And none of this even starts to touch on the complete and utter attack on our Democratic system. This is NOT a situation where you should be lamenting voting for one or the other.

Boy, what an objective, fact-based take.

Zobel said:

---

Boy, what an objective, fact-based take.

---

Well, politics by nature is going to be pretty subjective.

What is an objective aspect of last night you would like to discuss?

And if you are directing it to me, I have spent most of my adult life as very apolitical so I am, by no means, a Democrat. In fact, I've voted for R's far more in my life than D.

So, what is your point? What 'facts' would you like to discuss? What am I wrong about?

You're right, we should not lament over voting for one over the other because the choice is clear. The Biden-Sanders Unity document is clearly anti-Christian (and anti-American). It does the following:

• Abolishes law and order (Biblically established by God) by defunding the police and completely opening the border
• Completely anti-life (as in violating the principle of Image bearers) by expanding abortion to the point of infanticide (also referred to as murder)
• Completely abolishes the nuclear family (that is man and woman as created and intended by God) by redefining gender in terms of feeling, not reality (science)
• Of course, there's Biden's latest push to teach Islam in public schools. Not sure I've heard his same advocation for Christianity.

I could go on, but what's the point? You indicate Biden is a practicing Christian as if it is some sort of profession like lawyer, doctor, or engineer.

Christian = saved by grace through faith, not by works.

Then begins the journey of discipleship where we should seek to live our lives as Christ lived His. I'm not saying Trump does this, but the differences in the party platforms are clear. One is anti-Christian (anti-science, anti-logic, anti-reason, anti-American), thus impacting true discipleship...you're right the choice is obvious.

Macarthur said:

---

I dare not go over to 16. And since there's a thread on here about Christians voting democrat, I feel safe posting this here.

I strongly disagree with those that try to make some sort of equivalency here. I've seen several of my 'friends' on FB that complain about voting for either.

If last night did not show you this is a clear choice, nothing ever will. One candidate is a vile, self absorbed grifter and one is a career politician that has some warts but is a decent guy by political standards. And I think it's really interesting against the backdrop of this being a religious forum. I guess if abortion is the be all end all, so be it, but Joe is a practicing Christian that speaks often about his faith.

And none of this even starts to touch on the complete and utter attack on our Democratic system. This is NOT a situation where you should be lamenting voting for one or the other.

---

yeah, neither was on his best behavior, but it wasn't a "they were both equally bad" situation. Trump was interrupting constantly and didn't even try to stay on topic while doing so.

Civil04 said:

---

You're right, we should not lament over voting for one over the other because the choice is clear. The Biden-Sanders Unity document is clearly anti-Christian (and anti-American). It does the following:

• Abolishes law and order (Biblically established by God) by defunding the police and completely opening the border
• Completely anti-life (as in violating the principle of Image bearers) by expanding abortion to the point of infanticide (also referred to as murder)
• Completely abolishes the nuclear family (that is man and woman as created and intended by God) by redefining gender in terms of feeling, not reality (science)
• Of course, there's Biden's latest push to teach Islam in public schools. Not sure I've heard his same advocation for Christianity.

I could go on, but what's the point? You indicate Biden is a practicing Christian as if it is some sort of profession like lawyer, doctor, or engineer.

Christian = saved by grace through faith, not by works.

Then begins the journey of discipleship where we should seek to live our lives as Christ lived His. I'm not saying Trump does this, but the differences in the party platforms are clear. One is anti-Christian (anti-science, anti-logic, anti-reason, anti-American), thus impacting true discipleship...you're right the choice is obvious.

---

i'd like to subscribe to your fear-email chain

SirDippinDots said:

---

There are no in depth policy discussions. Probably because a good percentage of electorate could not understand. More of a junior high kids trading insults.

This is where we are as a society. Just give each one a sword and put them in the colosseum.

---

But again, that's not due to 'both candidates'. Only one candidate is unwilling and incapable of doing this.

Strange but I look at the platforms and what the candidates view on the issues are. Not their personalities.

I am not in favor of higher taxes, abortion, the Green new deal(which Biden I believed said he was not for but the dems certainly are, more open borders, etc. So basically I am against everything the dems are running on.

Biden May be a "nicer guy" but that is not what I base my vote on.

dermdoc said:

---

Strange but I look at the platforms and what the candidates view on the issues are. Not their personalities.

I am not in favor of higher taxes, abortion, the Green new deal(which Biden I believed said he was not for but the dems certainly are, more open borders, sanctuary cities, Antifa, etc. So basically I am against everything the dems are running on.

Biden May be a "nicer guy" but that is not what I base my vote on.

---

That's a fair and honest answer. However, I would ask what level of certainty do you have that Trump has any interest beyond self-interest in your platform?

Trump has lowered taxed for a certain segment of the population and has exploded the Debt which seems to be a selective item that the right cares about.

Abortion is abortion. I've concluded that there's not debate on this topic. The only thing I will say is that I don't think R's have any intention of doing anything about abortion. Even with stacking the courts.

The Green New Deal is a starting point for negotiations. I find it amazing that the right wants to stick their heads in the sand about climate change. You may not like the GND, but we are going to have to address this as a country.

Antifa is a laugher. Why is the right always so scared. Aren't you Anti-Fascist? I don't like Fascist. And NO ONE is running on ANTIFA. If you believe that, then is it fair to say Trump is running on a White Supremicist Platform?

Macarthur said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

Strange but I look at the platforms and what the candidates view on the issues are. Not their personalities.

I am not in favor of higher taxes, abortion, the Green new deal(which Biden I believed said he was not for but the dems certainly are, more open borders, sanctuary cities, Antifa, etc. So basically I am against everything the dems are running on.

Biden May be a "nicer guy" but that is not what I base my vote on.

---

That's a fair and honest answer. However, I would ask what level of certainty do you have that Trump has any interest beyond self-interest in your platform?

Trump has lowered taxed for a certain segment of the population and has exploded the Debt which seems to be a selective item that the right cares about.

Abortion is abortion. I've concluded that there's not debate on this topic. The only thing I will say is that I don't think R's have any intention of doing anything about abortion. Even with stacking the courts.

The Green New Deal is a starting point for negotiations. I find it amazing that the right wants to stick their heads in the sand about climate change. You may not like the GND, but we are going to have to address this as a country.

Antifa is a laugher. Why is the right always so scared. Aren't you Anti-Fascist? I don't like Fascist. And NO ONE is running on ANTIFA. If you believe that, then is it fair to say Trump is running on a White Supremicist Platform?

---

I can see you are not intellectually honest.

Macarthur said:

---

And can you honestly tell me that if Jesus watched that last night, he would vote for Trump? Seriously?

---

Jesus was there apparently. Biden seems to think he can end hurricanes, floods, storms, and wildfires.

SirDippinDots said:

---

Macarthur said:

---

SirDippinDots said:

---

There are no in depth policy discussions. Probably because a good percentage of electorate could not understand. More of a junior high kids trading insults.

This is where we are as a society. Just give each one a sword and put them in the colosseum.

---

But again, that's not due to 'both candidates'. Only one candidate is unwilling and incapable of doing this.

---

Well Trump constantly interrupts which makes it impossible and Biden just lies about his son not taking money or him being for the New Green Deal unless he just does not remember.

---

The Hunter Biden deal is most likely a case of nepotism and political dealings but there is no evidence of any illegality.

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/10/trumps-claims-about-hunter-biden-in-china/

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/may/07/viral-image/fact-checking-joe-biden-hunter-biden-and-ukraine/

Frankly, if this is the biggest scandal they can pin on Biden, it's pretty weak for a historical scandal standpoint.

His climate deal is not as aggressive as the NGD.

Other left-wing groups haven't gone quite that far, in part because Biden's plan doesn't adopt some of their more absolutist stances on energy. Unlike his former opponent, Sen. Bernie Sanders, for instance, Biden wouldn't ban natural gas and oil fracking or phase out nuclear power, and he leaves the door open to carbon capture technology, which some environmentalists see as distracting techno-optimism, and a lot of others think will be absolutely essential if we want to keep the planet from frying . Also, on the list of differences: AOC and Sen. Ed Markey wanted to move the country to clean energy in 10 years, whereas Biden's timeline is longer and more realistic.

Macarthur said:

---

And can you honestly tell me that if Jesus watched that last night, he would vote for Trump? Seriously?

---

Yes I would. Killing babies is a big deal. And putting pro life judges on the SC is how you stop it.

dermdoc said:

---

Strange but I look at the platforms and what the candidates view on the issues are. Not their personalities.

I am not in favor of higher taxes, abortion, the Green new deal(which Biden I believed said he was not for but the dems certainly are, more open borders, sanctuary cities, Antifa, etc. So basically I am against everything the dems are running on.

Biden May be a "nicer guy" but that is not what I base my vote on.

---

If one were to write an inverse post of this it would look like this:

----------------

Strange but I look at the platforms and what the candidates view on the issues are. Not their personalities.

I am not in favor of more tax breaks for the rich, fewer civil liberties, dismantling all environmental protections, Muslim bans, demonizing Mexican immigrants, white supremacism groups, etc. So basically I am against everything the repubs are running on.

-------------------

If I had seriously posted the above, you would rightfully call it out as a mischaracterization and an intentionally ignorant categorization of republican beliefs.

kurt vonnegut said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

Strange but I look at the platforms and what the candidates view on the issues are. Not their personalities.

I am not in favor of higher taxes, abortion, the Green new deal(which Biden I believed said he was not for but the dems certainly are, more open borders, sanctuary cities, Antifa, etc. So basically I am against everything the dems are running on.

Biden May be a "nicer guy" but that is not what I base my vote on.

---

If one were to write an inverse post of this it would look like this:

----------------

Strange but I look at the platforms and what the candidates view on the issues are. Not their personalities.

I am not in favor of more tax breaks for the rich, fewer civil liberties, dismantling all environmental protections, Muslim bans, demonizing Mexican immigrants, white supremacism groups, etc. So basically I am against everything the repubs are running on.

-------------------

If I had seriously posted the above, you would rightfully call it out as a mischaracterization and an intentionally ignorant categorization of republican beliefs.

---

No I would not. If you are not for what the repubs are running on you should not vote for them.

Covid deaths 200k(and I believe it is actually about half of that really attributable to Covid)
Abortion deaths 800k a year

Macarthur said:

---

explain

---

Antifa is a laugher. Why is the right always so scared. Aren't you Anti-Fascist? I don't like Fascist. And NO ONE is running on ANTIFA.

Antifa is not anti fascist. They are a great example of it like the nazi brown shirts.

The Democrats from mayors, governors, district attorneys have pretty much let them and BLM run wild. Not arresting or if arrested no prosecutions.

I loved this post from Pacifist. I want to constantly copy/paste it constantly in all these abortion threads recently. What's up with all these abortion topics recently? Is it just the election and it really being the main Republican rally cry against Democrats? If you make yourself a one topic voter, you are easily manipulated.
https://texags.com/forums/15/topics/3135061/replies/57424933

Quote:

---

Abortion numbers aren't dropping because we're talking about it. They've been dropping pretty consistently since the early 80's, regardless of the party in control. We did see a slight uptick around the same time Bush was pushing abstinence-only sex education. There are many likely reasons the numbers have been consistently decreasing for decades. More comprehensive sex education and greater access to birth control are probably the two biggest reasons.

But the party in power has had no discernable impact on those rates. Heck, I believe both parties prefer the status quo, including Republicans, because it is far too valuable as a political football to scare voters with. Since Roe v Wade, there have been 15 new SC justices placed on the bench. 11 of them by Republican presidents. They're no closer to overturning Roe today than they were then. And even if that pipe dream were realized, it only reverts it back to a state issue, and the overwhelming majority of states will maintain its legality. There are far more effective ways of combating abortion than compromising our witness by supporting vile men in the hopes they'll nominate the right people to overturn a court case.

---

kurt vonnegut said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

Strange but I look at the platforms and what the candidates view on the issues are. Not their personalities.

I am not in favor of higher taxes, abortion, the Green new deal(which Biden I believed said he was not for but the dems certainly are, more open borders, sanctuary cities, Antifa, etc. So basically I am against everything the dems are running on.

Biden May be a "nicer guy" but that is not what I base my vote on.

---

If one were to write an inverse post of this it would look like this:

----------------

Strange but I look at the platforms and what the candidates view on the issues are. Not their personalities.

I am not in favor of more tax breaks for the rich, fewer civil liberties, dismantling all environmental protections, Muslim bans, demonizing Mexican immigrants, white supremacism groups, etc. So basically I am against everything the repubs are running on.

-------------------

If I had seriously posted the above, you would rightfully call it out as a mischaracterization and an intentionally ignorant categorization of republican beliefs.

---

The difference is that Bidens campaign website is explicitly in support of what he listed (save antifa and sanctuary cities which aren't but are manifestations of Democrat permissiveness under the law) despite what he said last night (specifically about the GND). I mean if you can find half the things that are the 'inverse' on his campaign site let's see it (shifty to not use the opposite imo, because that would be pretty close to true - lower taxes, no abortion, no green no deal, no open borders, no sanctuary cities, no antifa).

SirDippinDots said:

---

Macarthur said:

---

explain

---

Antifa is a laugher. Why is the right always so scared. Aren't you Anti-Fascist? I don't like Fascist. And NO ONE is running on ANTIFA.

Antifa is not anti fascist. They are a great example of it like the nazi brown shirts.

The Democrats from mayors, governors, district attorneys have pretty much let them and BLM run wild. Not arresting or if arrested no prosecutions.

---

I do not believe ANTIFA is a problem. Nope.

There are some looters and aholes that need to be brought to justice.

And some of those are right wing aholes.

https://theintercept.com/2020/07/15/george-floyd-protests-police-far-right-antifa/


I might ask if you are actually being intellectually honest

Civil04 said:

---

What did I say about fear? Did I say something that wasn't true?

---

those sounds like republican fear porn talking points. to establish the veracity of your claims, how about you show me in the document where he wants to enact policies that are or will:

• abolish law and order
• completely anti-life
• completely abolish the nuclear family
• teach islam in public schools

page, paragraph, and lines will work.

https://joebiden.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/UNITY-TASK-FORCE-RECOMMENDATIONS.pdf

thanks

Macarthur said:

---

SirDippinDots said:

---

Macarthur said:

---

explain

---

Antifa is a laugher. Why is the right always so scared. Aren't you Anti-Fascist? I don't like Fascist. And NO ONE is running on ANTIFA.

Antifa is not anti fascist. They are a great example of it like the nazi brown shirts.

The Democrats from mayors, governors, district attorneys have pretty much let them and BLM run wild. Not arresting or if arrested no prosecutions.

---

I do not believe ANTIFA is a problem. Nope.

There are some looters and aholes that need to be brought to justice.

And some of those are right wing aholes.

https://theintercept.com/2020/07/15/george-floyd-protests-police-far-right-antifa/


I might ask if you are actually being intellectually honest

---

And that is fine if that is what you believe. I do not agree with you and am voting for the party that represents what I believe in. But I am not going to vote for Biden because he is a "nice guy" because I do not agree with him on any of the issues.

So we will agree to disagree.