Catholics staying consistent
Protestants dropping
"No Religion" growing
Obviously Orthodox Christians, Judaism, Buddhists, Hindus not represented here, though all of those those numbers except Judaism are growing.
Houston religious landscape changes since 1982
4,435 Views |
66 Replies |
Last: 3 yr ago by Buck Turgidson
Catholics staying consistent
Protestants dropping
"No Religion" growing
Obviously Orthodox Christians, Judaism, Buddhists, Hindus not represented here, though all of those those numbers except Judaism are growing.
I think it's more of a "change in how respondents answer these questions" than maybe a wholesale change in religious landscape.
If I had to bet, I'd assume that the "rise" in No Religion is really from both Catholic & Protestant camps who never go but finally feel free enough to answer No Religion.
The difference between the Catholic and Protestant numbers might simply be that the Catholics better replaced members due to demographic shifts of the hispanic community...but I'd like to know if the data confirms that or not.
If I had to bet, I'd assume that the "rise" in No Religion is really from both Catholic & Protestant camps who never go but finally feel free enough to answer No Religion.
The difference between the Catholic and Protestant numbers might simply be that the Catholics better replaced members due to demographic shifts of the hispanic community...but I'd like to know if the data confirms that or not.
Protestantism is failing in my opinion. I think younger generations have questions and want good, solid arguments grounded in logic and reason.
I don't know the average education of a Protestant/Non-Denominational pastor but I'm guessing, based on my experience, it's somewhere between highschool and some college.
Orthodox Priest have a minimal expectation of a Master's degree and a legitimate theology school. The knowledge and intelligence of The Church is what attached me to disregard Protestantism.
There are many great Protestant people and leaders but I do believe it's days are coming to a close. Especially globally.
I don't know the average education of a Protestant/Non-Denominational pastor but I'm guessing, based on my experience, it's somewhere between highschool and some college.
Orthodox Priest have a minimal expectation of a Master's degree and a legitimate theology school. The knowledge and intelligence of The Church is what attached me to disregard Protestantism.
There are many great Protestant people and leaders but I do believe it's days are coming to a close. Especially globally.
I also think that when we see extremely vocal Protestant leaders, they tend to be seen not because their preaching the gospel, but because they are delving into the politics of Caesar. That's a turn off, especially when it requires one to basically wear two different hats. It damages the witness of the church, which I think pushes people away.Quote:
Protestantism is failing in my opinion. I think younger generations have questions and want good, solid arguments grounded in logic and reason.
I am curious what the numbers look like for Orthodox, because it seems to be growing. Maybe it's because I've been looking into it more, but it seems as though I've noticed more and more moving that direction.
Quote:
Protestantism is failing in my opinion. I think younger generations have questions and want good, solid arguments grounded in logic and reason.
You're crazy if you don't think that most denominations have their own solid arguments grounded in logic and reason. Presbys think they do, so to Lutherans, Methodists and everyone else.
Quote:
I am curious what the numbers look like for Orthodox, because it seems to be growing. Maybe it's because I've been looking into it more, but it seems as though I've noticed more and more moving that direction.
They are a low number that will look like they are growing just because they are small to begin with.
CrackerJackAg said:
Protestantism is failing in my opinion. I think younger generations have questions and want good, solid arguments grounded in logic and reason.
I don't know the average education of a Protestant/Non-Denominational pastor but I'm guessing, based on my experience, it's somewhere between highschool and some college.
Orthodox Priest have a minimal expectation of a Master's degree and a legitimate theology school. The knowledge and intelligence of The Church is what attached me to disregard Protestantism.
There are many great Protestant people and leaders but I do believe it's days are coming to a close. Especially globally.
This is a really biased an uninformed statement.
Quote:
I don't know the average education of a Protestant/Non-Denominational pastor but I'm guessing, based on my experience, it's somewhere between highschool and some college.
As a Protestant with an MDiv, this is just really dumb.
Most Protestant pastors have Masters degrees or are working on one IMHO.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
You're just getting caught up in the Russian propagandaPacifistAg said:I also think that when we see extremely vocal Protestant leaders, they tend to be seen not because their preaching the gospel, but because they are delving into the politics of Caesar. That's a turn off, especially when it requires one to basically wear two different hats. It damages the witness of the church, which I think pushes people away.Quote:
Protestantism is failing in my opinion. I think younger generations have questions and want good, solid arguments grounded in logic and reason.
I am curious what the numbers look like for Orthodox, because it seems to be growing. Maybe it's because I've been looking into it more, but it seems as though I've noticed more and more moving that direction.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
My Protestant preacher back when I attended such things had a PhD from oxford.
Aggrad08 said:
My Protestant preacher back when I attended such things had a PhD from oxford.
I imagine most mainline Protestant Churches have great clergy.
I'm mostly looking at the modern metal building trendy non denominational churches and cowboy type churches.
My experience as a Southern Baptist growing up is what drove me to seek a more intellectual Church.
The point I'm making is that give it another thousand years and the Orthodox Church and Catholic Church will survive with their unity. Orthodox consistentcy and unity has helped it survive persecution that no Church in the West had ever felt.
Quote:
The point I'm making is that give it another thousand years and the Orthodox Church and Catholic Church will survive with their unity. Orthodox consistentcy and unity has helped it survive persecution that no Church in the West had ever felt.
I don't think so. It's either divine intervention or an extremely deep cultural connection that's survived by the people themselves surviving.
In either case, spiking the football and puffing your chest seem inappropriate.
None of our churches deserve to thrive on our own merits.
CrackerJackAg said:
Protestantism is failing in my opinion. I think younger generations have questions and want good, solid arguments grounded in logic and reason.
I don't know the average education of a Protestant/Non-Denominational pastor but I'm guessing, based on my experience, it's somewhere between highschool and some college.
Orthodox Priest have a minimal expectation of a Master's degree and a legitimate theology school. The knowledge and intelligence of The Church is what attached me to disregard Protestantism.
There are many great Protestant people and leaders but I do believe it's days are coming to a close. Especially globally.
What a load of crap. Not everything you hear at the Knight of Columbus golf tourney is true.
CrackerJackAg said:Aggrad08 said:
My Protestant preacher back when I attended such things had a PhD from oxford.
I imagine most mainline Protestant Churches have great clergy.
I'm mostly looking at the modern metal building trendy non denominational churches and cowboy type churches.
My experience as a Southern Baptist growing up is what drove me to seek a more intellectual Church.
The point I'm making is that give it another thousand years and the Orthodox Church and Catholic Church will survive with their unity. Orthodox consistentcy and unity has helped it survive persecution that no Church in the West had ever felt.
And then you double down with this extra loud of crap. Where to start? So you can't profess the gospel without an advanced college degree? You can't lead men and women to Christ without a doctorate. Those how didn't attend an officially sanctioned seminary that meets your approval should just sit in back and keep their mouths shut.
Such elitist garbage.
Super ironic considering the vast majority of orthodox clergy over the past few centuries were uneducated... because it wasn't legal for them to be.
The Joel Osteen's of the world have done a lot of damage to Protestantism imho. As has the fact that the mainline Protestant denominations have become largely corrupted at the top levels by far left leadership/glbtq groups seeking to change/take over the organizations.
PCA, UMC, Episcopal Churches have all been targeted, and largely lost. I don't follow SBC much, but they benefit imho from being Congregationalists in general, to the extent they allow churches to select the best candidate by their own congregation for leadership, but at the same time that has a downside as it has led to some 'uneducated' pastors and lack of consistent theology/leadership.
PCA, UMC, Episcopal Churches have all been targeted, and largely lost. I don't follow SBC much, but they benefit imho from being Congregationalists in general, to the extent they allow churches to select the best candidate by their own congregation for leadership, but at the same time that has a downside as it has led to some 'uneducated' pastors and lack of consistent theology/leadership.
Ol_Ag_02 said:CrackerJackAg said:Aggrad08 said:
My Protestant preacher back when I attended such things had a PhD from oxford.
I imagine most mainline Protestant Churches have great clergy.
I'm mostly looking at the modern metal building trendy non denominational churches and cowboy type churches.
My experience as a Southern Baptist growing up is what drove me to seek a more intellectual Church.
The point I'm making is that give it another thousand years and the Orthodox Church and Catholic Church will survive with their unity. Orthodox consistentcy and unity has helped it survive persecution that no Church in the West had ever felt.
And then you double down with this extra loud of crap. Where to start? So you can't profess the gospel without an advanced college degree? You can't lead men and women to Christ without a doctorate. Those how didn't attend an officially sanctioned seminary that meets your approval should just sit in back and keep their mouths shut.
Such elitist garbage.
To an extent I do believe this. I sat in on a Men's Bible Study Group recently. All good people, all good Christians.
The theology and understanding of the Bible was horrifying. For really good intentioned Christians I was stunned that none of them understood why they beleived what they did and some had personal interpretations that were outright heretical.
I believe it is dangerous and damaging for every one to have a personal interpretation because they have not received ANY theological training.
There were new or prospective Christians who had to come away from that more confused or turned off by the 14 conflicting opinions on everything.
Zobel said:
Super ironic considering the vast majority of orthodox clergy over the past few centuries were uneducated... because it wasn't legal for them to be.
It helped to have a firm non-political understanding of the Gospels and the Orthodox faith hammered out, enforced and handed down through Bishop's and Church tradition before hand to insure we could survive this.
Dovetails into the earlier thread about that praise group with the wackadoodle beliefs - lex orandi lex credendi is real. When the theological content of what you sing and pray in church is shallow, the beliefs will be under informed.
Biblical study and education are far and away quite poor across the spectrum today in 'western' Christianity (I say that mainly as a geographical term, I have no idea how Koreans or major African churches study). But I'd note that this is also largely true in my experience within not just protestantism but also Orthodox/RCC folks (especially RCC laypersons).
I don't think the UMC however (of which I'm a member) has ever been known for doing a great expository job of laying out their christology/biblical interpretations consistently to the members. Seek and ye shall find, however. I have no problem respecting the positions of high and low calvinists, serious catholics, or others, who have sought to learn on their own/from their church leadership/biblical studies groups.
I do think your posts earlier here seem a bit too judgmental toward your fellow travelers on this thread, though, which is what led to a lot of push back. Not everyone is at the same point in their walk.
I don't think the UMC however (of which I'm a member) has ever been known for doing a great expository job of laying out their christology/biblical interpretations consistently to the members. Seek and ye shall find, however. I have no problem respecting the positions of high and low calvinists, serious catholics, or others, who have sought to learn on their own/from their church leadership/biblical studies groups.
I do think your posts earlier here seem a bit too judgmental toward your fellow travelers on this thread, though, which is what led to a lot of push back. Not everyone is at the same point in their walk.
nortex97 said:
I do think your posts earlier here seem a bit too judgmental toward your fellow travelers on this thread, though, which is what led to a lot of push back. Not everyone is at the same point in their walk.
Agreed... It is a flaw I am aware of even when writing these. I come across much too straight forward. It is not intentional and I tend not to post often due to it. A message board is a poor medium for me. I come across much more humble in person and do much better.
I delete 90% of the threads I write without posting.
Heh, no worries, we all probably wish we could delete many posts, including our political leaders.
If the "cowboy" church is meeting their spiritual needs, why would you care? The early apostles and church fathers functioned mostly without the respectable academic credentials of their times.CrackerJackAg said:Aggrad08 said:
My Protestant preacher back when I attended such things had a PhD from oxford.
I imagine most mainline Protestant Churches have great clergy.
I'm mostly looking at the modern metal building trendy non denominational churches and cowboy type churches.
My experience as a Southern Baptist growing up is what drove me to seek a more intellectual Church.
The point I'm making is that give it another thousand years and the Orthodox Church and Catholic Church will survive with their unity. Orthodox consistentcy and unity has helped it survive persecution that no Church in the West had ever felt.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
This is not a good analysis. The apostles and the other disciples had spent years with Christ Jesus. Most of the church fathers were highly educated, and the vast majority of them were monastics and many bishops - they spent decades of their lives in study of the scriptures.
Peter was an uneducated fisherman
CrackerJackAg said:nortex97 said:
I do think your posts earlier here seem a bit too judgmental toward your fellow travelers on this thread, though, which is what led to a lot of push back. Not everyone is at the same point in their walk.
Agreed... It is a flaw I am aware of even when writing these. I come across much too straight forward. It is not intentional and I tend not to post often due to it. A message board is a poor medium for me. I come across much more humble in person and do much better.
I delete 90% of the threads I write without posting.
No worries, keep posting
An uneducated fisherman who learned at the feet of Christ for years and was a first hand witness to all of the events from the beginning.
The problem with leaving that point off is it implies any uneducated fisherman could speak with the same authority. The gospels make such a strong emphasis on witness specifically because this is not true.
The problem with leaving that point off is it implies any uneducated fisherman could speak with the same authority. The gospels make such a strong emphasis on witness specifically because this is not true.
St. Peter's started that way, but his rabbi was Jesus Christ, the word made flesh, the eternal logos. He got his degree from the source of all wisdom.
jrico2727 said:
St. Peter's started that way, but his rabbi was Jesus Christ, the word made flesh, the eternal logos. He got his degree from the source of all wisdom.
Christ used uneducated people to spread his message.
In my opinion it's adherence to proper theology that is important, not your education credentials.
St Paul and St Luke wrote the vast majority of the NT. Neither were uneducated. And as I mentioned, the vast majority of church fathers were highly educated.
Your first and second sentences are not related. We don't spring from the womb with knowledge and spiritual understanding. It is also an error to imply that you get it strictly from a seminary - we can look around and see that isn't true.
But how does a person come to know proper theology if they're not trained either by life in the church (at which point you're no longer uneducated) or by formal training?
Look at the model of the scriptures. St Paul spent a long while alone after meeting the Lord, and he also met with St Peter later. The Apostles and disciples learned from the Lord. There is a clear scriptural example of people being instructed in the teachings and the prayers (formal, with a definite article) of the Apostles.
Your first and second sentences are not related. We don't spring from the womb with knowledge and spiritual understanding. It is also an error to imply that you get it strictly from a seminary - we can look around and see that isn't true.
But how does a person come to know proper theology if they're not trained either by life in the church (at which point you're no longer uneducated) or by formal training?
Look at the model of the scriptures. St Paul spent a long while alone after meeting the Lord, and he also met with St Peter later. The Apostles and disciples learned from the Lord. There is a clear scriptural example of people being instructed in the teachings and the prayers (formal, with a definite article) of the Apostles.
Is there a better theologian to learn from than Christ himself?
Frok said:jrico2727 said:
St. Peter's started that way, but his rabbi was Jesus Christ, the word made flesh, the eternal logos. He got his degree from the source of all wisdom.
Christ used uneducated people to spread his message.
In my opinion it's adherence to proper theology that is important, not your education credentials.
What is proper theology exactly? Seems like it would be an easy thing to define if it's the most important thing.
If you ask me, God prefers uneducated, heathen people that show kindness, generosity and love for others over highly educated, perfect theologians that are greedy and cruel. Its a heart issue, not a brain or doctrine issue
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Obviously your latter point is true. That's not really the question though. It's - does a person benefit from some sort of formal training before becoming a teacher? Or, put another way, is a person with no formal training qualified to do so?
I hear you, but some of these preachers have been through tough times as well: perhaps drug addiction, depression (John Wesley for one), financial hardships, etc. William Seymour had to face the virulent racism of the media and mainstream churches led by "educated" clergy during the phenomenally influential Azusa Street revival and his multi-racial congregation met in a tumbledown wooden structure.Zobel said:
This is not a good analysis. The apostles and the other disciples had spent years with Christ Jesus. Most of the church fathers were highly educated, and the vast majority of them were monastics and many bishops - they spent decades of their lives in study of the scriptures.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
This is mixing two topics though.
Tough times don't make you more or less suitable to teach or preach. Being a drug addict or suffering from depression doesn't make you more qualified to be a teacher or pastor.
There is not an identity relationship with education and pride, just like there isn't an identity relationship with poverty or struggle and spirituality.
Tough times don't make you more or less suitable to teach or preach. Being a drug addict or suffering from depression doesn't make you more qualified to be a teacher or pastor.
There is not an identity relationship with education and pride, just like there isn't an identity relationship with poverty or struggle and spirituality.
Featured Stories
See All
LIVE from Olsen Field at BBP: No. 1 Texas A&M vs. Houston
by Richard Zane
8:16
6h ago
1.7k
LIVE from Davis Diamond: No. 11 Texas A&M vs. Houston
by Emma Neuman
Dalton Hughes
"Big Ten will 'definitely' have Texas school by 2026"
in Billy Liucci's TexAgs Premium
135