X-posted From Politics: Bishop Fulton Sheen On Patriotism

2,245 Views | 39 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by UTExan
Aggie4242
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Because the funding given to the police is outsized compared to other agencies. Not only would funding be removed from the police, but also specific responsibilities. This is vital, because the police are not trained to handle the myriad situations they are placed in. For example:

Quote:

Data show that 9 out of 10 calls for service are for nonviolent encounters. Now, this does not mean that an incident will not turn violent, but police at times contribute to the escalation of violent force. Police officers' skillset and training are often out of sync with the social interactions that they have. Police officers are mostly trained in use-of-force tactics and worst-case scenarios to reduce potential threats. However, most of their interactions with civilians start with a conversation.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/19/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-and-does-it-have-merit/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CDefund%20the%20police%E2%80%9D%20means%20reallocating,does%20not%20mean%20abolish%20policing.

The concept of "defunding the police" would actually use the police in a role they are trained for. Specifically, combatting crime, responding to violent threats to the public, and homicides. This would remove a ton of administrative overhead for Police Departments while allowing them to focus on the most critical aspects of law enforcement.

It seems strange to me that you actually want police to respond to things like cats in trees, or domestic arguments that they aren't trained to handle. Instead of having the police respond to situations involving mental illness, or homeless people, wouldn't it be better if they were streamlined and allowed to focus on the urgent matters needed to protect society. Why would you want this (see quote below) to continue?

Quote:

According to some estimates, law enforcement spends 21 percent of its time responding to and transporting people with mental illnesses. Police are also frequently dispatched to deal with people experiencing homelessness, causing them to be incarcerated at a disproportionate rate.

https://www.thecut.com/2020/06/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-the-phrase-explained.html

I don't mean to be rude (and I apologize if it comes across like that), but it sounds like you know very, very little about this subject and haven't taken the time to research it.
Aggie4242
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How many people did the Weather Underground kill?

How many people did the KKK kill?

Also, just to point out, you are comparing the actions of a group that told people to evacuate before their attacks to a sprawling organization that lynched hundreds (possibly thousands?) of African-Americans because of the color of their skin.

Both are bad, but to try and compare the two is absurd.

Also, you have failed to specifically call out :

The Norway shooting (done by a conservative, white supremacist)

The Charlottesville car attack (done by a conservative, white supremacist)

The Charleston Church Shooting (done by a conservative, white supremacist)

The Christchurch shooting (done by a conservative, white supremacist)

But thank goodness you are concerned about the Weather Underground!
UTExan
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Aggie4242 said:

Because the funding given to the police is outsized compared to other agencies. Not only would funding be removed from the police, but also specific responsibilities. This is vital, because the police are not trained to handle the myriad situations they are placed in. For example:

Quote:

Data show that 9 out of 10 calls for service are for nonviolent encounters. Now, this does not mean that an incident will not turn violent, but police at times contribute to the escalation of violent force. Police officers' skillset and training are often out of sync with the social interactions that they have. Police officers are mostly trained in use-of-force tactics and worst-case scenarios to reduce potential threats. However, most of their interactions with civilians start with a conversation.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/19/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-and-does-it-have-merit/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CDefund%20the%20police%E2%80%9D%20means%20reallocating,does%20not%20mean%20abolish%20policing.

The concept of "defunding the police" would actually use the police in a role they are trained for. Specifically, combatting crime, responding to violent threats to the public, and homicides. This would remove a ton of administrative overhead for Police Departments while allowing them to focus on the most critical aspects of law enforcement.

It seems strange to me that you actually want police to respond to things like cats in trees, or domestic arguments that they aren't trained to handle. Instead of having the police respond to situations involving mental illness, or homeless people, wouldn't it be better if they were streamlined and allowed to focus on the urgent matters needed to protect society. Why would you want this (see quote below) to continue?

Quote:

According to some estimates, law enforcement spends 21 percent of its time responding to and transporting people with mental illnesses. Police are also frequently dispatched to deal with people experiencing homelessness, causing them to be incarcerated at a disproportionate rate.

https://www.thecut.com/2020/06/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-the-phrase-explained.html

I don't mean to be rude (and I apologize if it comes across like that), but it sounds like you know very, very little about this subject and haven't taken the time to research it.


If police in your city are responding to cats in trees (or minor larcenies) they are over staffed. Ours only respond to calls in progress, mental health crises (they have specialists for this who work in tandem with mental health clinicians, not social workers) and other items requiring potential intervention or situations in which forensic evidence may be discovered. Cats in trees are Animal Control or they will come down in their own. IOW, our police do not handle non-police calls unless they are requested. They are way too busy for that.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
UTExan
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Aggie4242 said:

How many people did the Weather Underground kill?

How many people did the KKK kill?

Also, just to point out, you are comparing the actions of a group that told people to evacuate before their attacks to a sprawling organization that lynched hundreds (possibly thousands?) of African-Americans because of the color of their skin.

Both are bad, but to try and compare the two is absurd.

Also, you have failed to specifically call out :

The Norway shooting (done by a conservative, white supremacist)

The Charlottesville car attack (done by a conservative, white supremacist)

The Charleston Church Shooting (done by a conservative, white supremacist)

The Christchurch shooting (done by a conservative, white supremacist)

But thank goodness you are concerned about the Weather Underground!


I am concerned about any terrorist group which seeks to commit arson, detonate explosives in buildings or use coercion or force for the purpose of political change. The sovereign citizen movement with its violent elements is pretty much the same thing IMHO as are the Boogaloos.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Zobel
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AG
False equivalence based on a category error (whites and conservatives = terrorists) within a false dichotomy (condemn only weather underground vs kkk)?

That's an impressive amount of nonsense in one post.
UTExan
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Quote:

Just so I am clear...

You think the Weather Underground is exactly the same as the Red Brigade and Baader-Meinhof...

The Red Brigade killed 50 people over 50 different attacks

Baader-Meinhof killed at least 30 people

Do you hear yourself?
To further elaborate on Weather Underground violence:

1970 Alone:
Quote:

March 6 WUO members Theodore Gold, Diana Oughton, and Terry Robbins are killed in the Greenwich Village townhouse explosion,[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Weatherman_actions#cite_note-g31-2][2][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Weatherman_actions#cite_note-b326-8][8][/url] when a nailbomb they were constructing detonates. The bomb was intended to be planted at a non-commissioned officer's dance at Fort Dix, New Jersey.

May 10 The National Guard Association of the United States building in Washington, D.C. is bombed

June 6 In a letter, the WUO claims credit for bombing of the San Francisco Hall of Justice, although no explosion has occurred. Months later, workmen locate an unexploded bomb

June 9- The New York City Police headquarters is bombed by Jane Alpert and accomplices. Weathermen state this is in response to "police repression." (six minutes warning)

July 25 - The United States Army base at The Presidio in San Francisco is bombed on the 11th anniversary of the Cuban Revolution.

July 28 - Bank of America HQ in NYC is bombed around 3:50 AM. WUO claims responsibility.

October 6 - Second bombing of Chicago's Haymarket Police monument

October 8- Bombing of Marin County courthouse.

October 10 - A Queens traffic-court building is bombed.

October 11- A Courthouse in Long Island City, NY is bombed. An estimated 8 to 10 sticks of dynamite are used. (10 minutes warning)

October 14 - The Harvard Center for International Affairs is bombed by The Proud Eagle Tribe of Weather (later renamed the Women's Brigade of the Weather Underground).

December 5 - Five Weatherman are captured for trying to bomb First National City Bank of NY and other buildings

December 11 - Vivian Bogart and Patricia Mclean from the WUO are arrested after throwing an incendiary bomb at the Royal National Bank in NYC around 1:30 AM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Weatherman_actions

That was from 1971 alone and just Wiki info.

Now back to Bishop Sheen's differentiation on the aims of a revolution, i.e. Jefferson vs the French model. Do you not honestly see that a totalitarian government (revolutionary communist or revolutionary fascist) cannot be consistent with Christianity? Socialism, the coercive redistribution of the social product is likewise detrimental to faith because it places government in the role of provider. And because these systems are counter to human nature, they tend to fail or become a sluggish parody of a healthy economy. Complete laissez-faire capitalism fails because it rewards the most predatory actors in an economy. Otto von Bismarck realized this and in the late 1800s created welfare legislation to protect working people.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
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