jrico2727 said:

---

Archbishop Sheen was an American treasure and a true prince of the Church. He should be a canonized saint right now, but a cowardly bunch of current bishops, Cardinal Dolan etc. that wouldn't be fit to touch his mitre, have held it up for political reasons. Everyone should watch Life is Worth living on EWTN or YouTube it is very edifying.

---

Agreed.

jrico2727 said:

---

Archbishop Sheen was an American treasure and a true prince of the Church. He should be a canonized saint right now, but a cowardly bunch of current bishops, Cardinal Dolan etc. that wouldn't be fit to touch his mitre, have held it up for political reasons. Everyone should watch Life is Worth living on EWTN or YouTube it is very edifying.

---

I don't really know the background on this.... why would Dolan be holding it up?

There are claims he may be brought up in future sex abuse investigations, although he has never been accused of anything. He has passed the scrutiny of the canonization process. When Sheen's family wanted his remains brought back to Illinois where he was from, Dolan fought them in court for years. When his cause was approved Dolan supposedly spearheaded putting a unprecedented hold on it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/cruxnow.com/church-in-the-usa/2019/12/sheen-beatification-postponed-at-request-of-few-us-bishops/amp/

Do you realize that this also applies to the Trump Administration?

Quote:

---

1.) There is a dominant, vocal elite whose only programs revolve around what they are against. - Think the GOP
2.) There is a man with a bullhorn in this group--the loud propagandist. - Think Trump
3.) There are hangmen in this group. They burn, loot and destroy. - Think White Supremecists
4.) There are wastrels in this group---profiteers from violence. - Think Private Prisons
5.) There are "mystics" in this group who are domineering and totally resistant to any opposing ideas. They must destroy any independent thinkers. - Think Stephen Miller and a ton of other folks

---

So, do you believe the same concept of coercion by terror to change behavior applies this way as well?

Aggie4242 said:

---

Do you realize that this also applies to the Trump Administration?

Quote:

---

1.) There is a dominant, vocal elite whose only programs revolve around what they are against. - Think the GOP
2.) There is a man with a bullhorn in this group--the loud propagandist. - Think Trump
3.) There are hangmen in this group. They burn, loot and destroy. - Think White Supremecists
4.) There are wastrels in this group---profiteers from violence. - Think Private Prisons
5.) There are "mystics" in this group who are domineering and totally resistant to any opposing ideas. They must destroy any independent thinkers. - Think Stephen Miller and a ton of other folks

---

So, do you believe the same concept of coercion by terror to change behavior applies this way as well?

---

The flaw in your logic is that the GOP is not in the streets providing cover for criminal acts of arson, aggravated assault or car-jacking. BLM and Antifa ARE the drivers of such violence against persons and property. You could make the argument that Trump's Twitter recklessness has caused some isolated acts of violence but nothing like the scale of ongoing BLM//Antifa violence. Did you see the Gallup poll yesterday indicating that 80% of black Americans wanted the same level or more of police in their communities?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/us-rightwing-extremists-attacks-deaths-database-leftwing-antifa

Macarthur said:

---

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/us-rightwing-extremists-attacks-deaths-database-leftwing-antifa

---

That database conveniently starts in 1994 and ignores decades of left wing bombings, assassinations and murders by leftist organizations in the 1960s and 70s when leftist insurgencies in the US and Europe were clandestinely supported by the USSR, the Warsaw Pact, their allies in Black September and the PLO and independent Communist groups such as the Japanese Red Army. Recent leftist violence has injured or maimed an estimated 1,000 police officers in the past 3 months. But just like the Brownshirts, you can absolutely bet that leftist "protests" will devolve into violence against some target group singled out for physical abuse. That is why the revolutionary left is so despicable.

I would be glad to see that data.

Be that as it may, we are talking about what we face now. 1994 is a long time ago. The data currently shows without question that right wing violence in this country is a far greater problem than left wing.

Macarthur said:

---

I would be glad to see that data.

Be that as it may, we are talking about what we face now. 1994 is a long time ago. The data currently shows without question that right wing violence in this country is a far greater problem than left wing.

---

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thenation.com/article/archive/remembering-left-wing-terrorism-1970s/tnamp/

Start with Bryan Burrough's Days of Rage which recounts how movement for social justice became murderous and in his word "nuts" in its obsession with personal violence. Bernardine Dohrn was said to have admired the Manson family slaughter of innocents at the Sharon Tate/Roman Polanski home. And it is the continuation of that violent period which has inspired recent violence.

Okay, my point wasn't to say left wing terrorism never existed, but that article doesn't really give any scope of the issue like this data does about the right.

And, I'm sure you read all the way to the last paragraph when it actually says left wing terrorism is virtually non-existent today.

Macarthur said:

---

Okay, my point wasn't to say left wing terrorism never existed, but that article doesn't really give any scope of the issue like this data does about the right.

And, I'm sure you read all the way to the last paragraph when it actually says left wing terrorism is virtually non-existent today.

---

Oh no. Right wing terrorism is certainly present today and has certainly constituted 57% of documented terrorist attacks since '94. And the Center fro Strategic and International Studies offers a decent taxonomy of terrorism:

Quote:

---

Overall, this analysis divides terrorism into four broad categories: right-wing, left-wing, religious, and ethnonationalist. To be clear, terms like right-wing and left-wing terrorism do notin any waycorrespond to mainstream political parties in the United States, such as the Republican and Democratic parties, which eschew terrorism. Instead, terrorism is orchestrated by a small minority of extremists.

---

https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states

Terrorism is hate, which is the spirit of murder, as articulated in scripture (1 John 3:15). It is not necessary self-defense, but a spirit of murder. With the end of the Soviet Union, much of the physical support for leftist causes evaporated. Now, in this age of hate, each grouping targets those it hates for destruction and violence. The Antifa hate the police, the Boogaloos hate black people and Jews, doctrinaire leftists/Marxists hate capitalists.etc.

And the Guardian article is incorrect. Left-wing terrorism is on full display nightly in Portland.

It was to this that the bishop referred in the video: when there is no love of God, then it is difficult for one to love one's fellow man. He referred to patriotism as a constructive force, not a fetish and I think many confuse love of country and countrymen, and even a covenant between a people and their God as being "right-wing" or ultra-nationalist. But truthfully, many peoples have declared officially or believed unofficially, in a special relationship with God and this can be a force for good if kept in proper perspective.

Quote:

---

It was to this that the bishop referred in the video: when there is no love of God, then it is difficult for one to love one's fellow man. He referred to patriotism as a constructive force, not a fetish and I think many confuse love of country and countrymen, and even a covenant between a people and their God as being "right-wing" or ultra-nationalist. But truthfully, many peoples have declared officially or believed unofficially, in a special relationship with God and this can be a force for good if kept in proper perspective.

---

I've got no problem with any of that. To me the difference between patriotism and ultra-nationalism is when only your country matters. For example, American Fruit Company used to topple governments in Latin America and use local populations as almost slave labor. This was good for the American business and economy and terrible for Latin America. A patriot would not support such things, but an ultra-nationalist would. Same thing with oil companies and the Middle East.

The other thing that gets me is that lots of countries think they have a special relationship with God. US thinks were are a Christian made nation. Italy thinks it is the heir to ancient Rome and true Christianity. Germany thinks they the heirs of the Reformation and true Christianity. Russia thinks they are the heir to Byzantine Orthodoxy and true Christianity. France, Britain and Spain see themselves as the great missionaries of history, spreading Christianity across the globe. Most of Latin America sees itself as the heirs to Catholicism in number of faithful. Israel thinks they are God's specifically chosen nation. So many countries think they are specifically special to God, and many of these have fought each other under these pretenses.

UTExan said:

---

Aggie4242 said:

---

Do you realize that this also applies to the Trump Administration?

Quote:

---

1.) There is a dominant, vocal elite whose only programs revolve around what they are against. - Think the GOP
2.) There is a man with a bullhorn in this group--the loud propagandist. - Think Trump
3.) There are hangmen in this group. They burn, loot and destroy. - Think White Supremecists
4.) There are wastrels in this group---profiteers from violence. - Think Private Prisons
5.) There are "mystics" in this group who are domineering and totally resistant to any opposing ideas. They must destroy any independent thinkers. - Think Stephen Miller and a ton of other folks

---

So, do you believe the same concept of coercion by terror to change behavior applies this way as well?

---

The flaw in your logic is that the GOP is not in the streets providing cover for criminal acts of arson, aggravated assault or car-jacking. BLM and Antifa ARE the drivers of such violence against persons and property. You could make the argument that Trump's Twitter recklessness has caused some isolated acts of violence but nothing like the scale of ongoing BLM//Antifa violence. Did you see the Gallup poll yesterday indicating that 80% of black Americans wanted the same level or more of police in their communities?

---

That simply isn't true (see the links below). Further, you paint with an incredibly broad brush regarding BLM/Antifa and show that you don't really understand the movement you are trying to demonize. You then, conveniently, minimize and offer excuses for the right wing violence that has occurred. Why is it difficult for you to admit that your post can be interpreted multiple ways?

https://theintercept.com/2020/07/15/george-floyd-protests-police-far-right-antifa/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/06/17/trump-warns-leftist-violence-dangerous-threat-emerges-right-wing-boogaloo-movement/%3FoutputType%3Damp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/us/george-floyd-protests-white-supremacists-antifa.amp.html

As far as your Gallup poll goes, what do you think "defund the police" means and how much time have you spent reading/learning about the demands? Also, if you could cite the foundation of your beliefs, I would appreciate it.

Quote:

---

With the end of the Soviet Union, much of the physical support for leftist causes evaporated

---

What are you trying to say here?

Also, just because I am curious...

Can you, without researching it, tell me what you think the differences between communism, Marxism, and socialism are? Can you also tell me which you think are "bad", and why you think that?

Aggie4242 said:

---

Quote:

---

With the end of the Soviet Union, much of the physical support for leftist causes evaporated

---

What are you trying to say here?

---

The Soviets funded and often armed violent left wing western organizations. The Red Brigades, Baader-Meinhof, etc as part of their Cold War efforts to undermine the west. GRU defector Viktor Suvorov (his nom-de-plume) makes this explicitly clear.

Aggie4242 said:

---

UTExan said:

---

Aggie4242 said:

---

Do you realize that this also applies to the Trump Administration?

Quote:

---

1.) There is a dominant, vocal elite whose only programs revolve around what they are against. - Think the GOP
2.) There is a man with a bullhorn in this group--the loud propagandist. - Think Trump
3.) There are hangmen in this group. They burn, loot and destroy. - Think White Supremecists
4.) There are wastrels in this group---profiteers from violence. - Think Private Prisons
5.) There are "mystics" in this group who are domineering and totally resistant to any opposing ideas. They must destroy any independent thinkers. - Think Stephen Miller and a ton of other folks

---

So, do you believe the same concept of coercion by terror to change behavior applies this way as well?

---

The flaw in your logic is that the GOP is not in the streets providing cover for criminal acts of arson, aggravated assault or car-jacking. BLM and Antifa ARE the drivers of such violence against persons and property. You could make the argument that Trump's Twitter recklessness has caused some isolated acts of violence but nothing like the scale of ongoing BLM//Antifa violence. Did you see the Gallup poll yesterday indicating that 80% of black Americans wanted the same level or more of police in their communities?

---

That simply isn't true (see the links below). Further, you paint with an incredibly broad brush regarding BLM/Antifa and show that you don't really understand the movement you are trying to demonize. You then, conveniently, minimize and offer excuses for the right wing violence that has occurred. Why is it difficult for you to admit that your post can be interpreted multiple ways?

https://theintercept.com/2020/07/15/george-floyd-protests-police-far-right-antifa/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/06/17/trump-warns-leftist-violence-dangerous-threat-emerges-right-wing-boogaloo-movement/%3FoutputType%3Damp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/us/george-floyd-protests-white-supremacists-antifa.amp.html

As far as your Gallup poll goes, what do you think "defund the police" means and how much time have you spent reading/learning about the demands? Also, if you could cite the foundation of your beliefs, I would appreciate it.

---

Defunding police is exactly what BLM activists have stated: divert funds for police operations and place them into BLM "approved" projects. In Memphis, BLM attempted to blackmail businesses.

Quote:

---

Members of Louisville's Cuban community plan to gather Sunday in support of a NuLu restaurant owner who says he was threatened by Black Lives Matter protesters during a recent demonstration.

Fernando Martinez, a partner of the Ol Restaurant Group, was one of dozens of business owners in the downtown Louisville district who recently received a letter from protesters laying out demands that aim to improve diversity in the area, which is known for its locally-owned shops and restaurants.
Martinez has publicly denounced the demands on Facebook, calling them "mafia tactics" used to intimidate business owners. And on Thursday, a small group of protesters confronted him outside his newest restaurant, La Bodeguita de Mima, on East Market Street.

"There comes a time in life that you have to make a stand and you have to really prove your convictions and what you believe in," Martinez wrote in his Facebook post. "... All good people need to denounce this. How can you justified (sic) injustice with more injustice?"

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2020/08/01/louisville-cuban-community-rally-support-la-bodeguita-de-mima/5562669002/

---

And

Quote:

---

BLM leaders have threatened to "burn down the system" if their demands are not met, and are also training black militias.

• As documented below, BLM has lifted much of its agenda from radical leftist groups active in the United States during the 1960s and 1970s. BLM is an ideological descendant of the Black Power Movement, the Black Panthers, the Black Liberation Army and the Weather Underground, all of which sought to overthrow the U.S. political system.
• BLM's innovation is two-fold: 1) it has successfully employed intersectionality and identity politics to stir up a broad range of grievances that extend far beyond race including class, gender identity, sexual orientation, religion, immigration status and other identity markers thus assuring that BLM offers something for just about anyone claiming victim status; and 2) it has successfully leveraged social media to agitate mob hysteria and funnel societal rage into a political movement with a large online reach.
• BLM's ideological influences and sources of funding. BLM is at the core of a vast network of Marxist groups whose demands often coincide with those of Antifa anarchists, many of whom have been piggybacking on BLM protests to stir chaos and destruction. Left-of-center foundations including the W.K. Kellogg Foundation and the Ford Foundation, as well as intermediaries including Thousand Currents, Borealis Philanthropy and the Alliance for Global Justice and have provided tens of millions of dollars to BLM and the Movement for Black Lives, an umbrella group that coordinates BLM activism.
• BLM is a revolutionary anti-capitalist movement masquerading as a civil rights movement. Its focus on racial issues is a smokescreen for a much larger effort to completely dismantle the American economic, political and social systems and rebuild them from scratch according to Marxist principles.

BLM In Its Own Words
"The ONLY thing that will fix this is a REVOLUTION. Elections aren't revolutions." Tania Faison, co-founder BLM Sacramento, March 5, 2020
"Ain't no kneeling ass pig gonna stop the revolution!" BLM Sacramento, June 1, 2020
"Stop getting sad and get angry. We need to fight." BLM Sacramento, May 7, 2020
"Revolutions don't happen just once in a lifetime; may there be countless revolutions in our time towards Black liberation." BLM Toronto, March 24, 2019
"DEFUND. DISARM. DISMANTLE. ABOLISH. #DefundThePolice #BlackLivesMatter". BLM Toronto, June 19, 2020
"Get off our land white man!" BLM Memphis, July 4, 2020
"CANCEL RENT IN #DC!" BLM Washington, D.C., June 24, 2020

https://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/opinions/black-lives-matter-we-will-burn-down-this-system-part-ii/2020/08/03/

---

ramblin_ag02 said:

---

Quote:

---

It was to this that the bishop referred in the video: when there is no love of God, then it is difficult for one to love one's fellow man. He referred to patriotism as a constructive force, not a fetish and I think many confuse love of country and countrymen, and even a covenant between a people and their God as being "right-wing" or ultra-nationalist. But truthfully, many peoples have declared officially or believed unofficially, in a special relationship with God and this can be a force for good if kept in proper perspective.

---

I've got no problem with any of that. To me the difference between patriotism and ultra-nationalism is when only your country matters. For example, American Fruit Company used to topple governments in Latin America and use local populations as almost slave labor. This was good for the American business and economy and terrible for Latin America. A patriot would not support such things, but an ultra-nationalist would. Same thing with oil companies and the Middle East.

The other thing that gets me is that lots of countries think they have a special relationship with God. US thinks were are a Christian made nation. Italy thinks it is the heir to ancient Rome and true Christianity. Germany thinks they the heirs of the Reformation and true Christianity. Russia thinks they are the heir to Byzantine Orthodoxy and true Christianity. France, Britain and Spain see themselves as the great missionaries of history, spreading Christianity across the globe. Most of Latin America sees itself as the heirs to Catholicism in number of faithful. Israel thinks they are God's specifically chosen nation. So many countries think they are specifically special to God, and many of these have fought each other under these pretenses.

---

I think each nation is special to God; not superior, but with specific roles. We have been materially blessed and are expected to share with the less fortunate. One of my great disappointments with immigration is a blatantly obvious solution because we need workers and Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador have willing workers. Establishing integration camps at certain southern border areas to intake and assess migrants for medical status and work skills, then matching them with employers in the US would be a nearly ideal solution. And we could pay for the program by charging employers administrative costs and by dunning foreign aid for the countries for those who will not take care of their own citizens and/or who abuse them. Obviously, we cannot fix Central America---the Spanish did far too much damage and their peninsulares descendants still run these countries, lording it over the indigenous population---but we can do a lot.

Quote:

---

It was to this that the bishop referred in the video: when there is no love of God, then it is difficult for one to love one's fellow man.

---

Not even considering the history of the catholic church, Im gonna have a hard time taking that seriously coming from a man whose organization spent $281 million settling child sex abuse cases in 2019 alone.

UTExan said:

---

Aggie4242 said:

---

Quote:

---

With the end of the Soviet Union, much of the physical support for leftist causes evaporated

---

What are you trying to say here?

---

The Soviets funded and often armed violent left wing western organizations. The Red Brigades, Baader-Meinhof, etc as part of their Cold War efforts to undermine the west. GRU defector Viktor Suvorov (his nom-de-plume) makes this explicitly clear.

---

So nothing relevant to this conversation as BLM is nothing like any of those groups.

Do you read the links you post, or are you just copy/pasting from somewhere?

From your louisville link:

Quote:

---

Phelix Crittenden, an activist who works with Black Lives Matter Louisville, said the demands and related "NuLu social justice health and wellness ratings" were not meant to be a threat but were instead intended to start a conversation with owners about how their businesses can better reflect and support Black people.

Crittenden, who also founded the organization Blacks Organizing Strategic Success, said several NuLu business owners have volunteered to sign the contract created by the protesters and are open to discussing their roles in the gentrification of the area, which has undergone hundreds of millions of dollars in development in recent years.

---

From your NY Post article:

Quote:

---

"I don't condone nor do I condemn rioting," Newsome continued. "But I'm just telling you what I observed."

MacCallum asked Newsome what Black Lives Matter hoped to achieve through violence.

"Wow, it's interesting that you would pose that question like that," Newsome responded, "because this country is built upon violence. What was the American Revolution? What's our diplomacy across the globe?"

"We go in and we blow up countries and we replace their leaders with leaders who we like. So for any American to accuse us of being violent is extremely hypocritical," Newsome added.

---

As to your Jewishpost link, I asked you to post facts, and you post an opinion piece that doesn't even reference the BLM website and is incredibly biased and heavy on conjecture. Since it appears you can use search engines, I have to wonder why you didn't find this webpage:

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-defunding-the-police-really-means/

Also, here is the co-founder of BLM explaining what "Defund the Police" means:

https://www.axios.com/defund-police-black-lives-matter-7007efac-0b24-44e2-a45c-c7f180c17b2e.html

Quote:

---

calls to "defund the police" are not about eliminating police departments, but about reinvesting funds toward "the resources that our communities need."

---

So, my question to you is, why don't you want to reinvest funds in the community? Why do you feel that many of the underfunded social services many cities provide don't deserve money?

UTExan said:

---

ramblin_ag02 said:

---

Quote:

---

It was to this that the bishop referred in the video: when there is no love of God, then it is difficult for one to love one's fellow man. He referred to patriotism as a constructive force, not a fetish and I think many confuse love of country and countrymen, and even a covenant between a people and their God as being "right-wing" or ultra-nationalist. But truthfully, many peoples have declared officially or believed unofficially, in a special relationship with God and this can be a force for good if kept in proper perspective.

---

I've got no problem with any of that. To me the difference between patriotism and ultra-nationalism is when only your country matters. For example, American Fruit Company used to topple governments in Latin America and use local populations as almost slave labor. This was good for the American business and economy and terrible for Latin America. A patriot would not support such things, but an ultra-nationalist would. Same thing with oil companies and the Middle East.

The other thing that gets me is that lots of countries think they have a special relationship with God. US thinks were are a Christian made nation. Italy thinks it is the heir to ancient Rome and true Christianity. Germany thinks they the heirs of the Reformation and true Christianity. Russia thinks they are the heir to Byzantine Orthodoxy and true Christianity. France, Britain and Spain see themselves as the great missionaries of history, spreading Christianity across the globe. Most of Latin America sees itself as the heirs to Catholicism in number of faithful. Israel thinks they are God's specifically chosen nation. So many countries think they are specifically special to God, and many of these have fought each other under these pretenses.

---

I think each nation is special to God; not superior, but with specific roles. We have been materially blessed and are expected to share with the less fortunate. One of my great disappointments with immigration is a blatantly obvious solution because we need workers and Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador have willing workers. Establishing integration camps at certain southern border areas to intake and assess migrants for medical status and work skills, then matching them with employers in the US would be a nearly ideal solution. And we could pay for the program by charging employers administrative costs and by dunning foreign aid for the countries for those who will not take care of their own citizens and/or who abuse them. Obviously, we cannot fix Central America---the Spanish did far too much damage and their peninsulares descendants still run these countries, lording it over the indigenous population---but we can do a lot.

---

Why do you gloss over everything the United States did in Central/South America? Do you think the repeated American intervention/government overthrows have not had an impact on the economic growth of the region?

https://medium.com/s/story/timeline-us-intervention-central-america-a9bea9ebc148

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-panama-noriega-obituary/panamas-noriega-cia-spy-turned-drug-running-dictator-idUSKBN18Q0NW

To think that only the Spanish Empire is responsible for the wasteland that is Central America is unbelievable.

Aggie4242 said:

---

UTExan said:

---

Aggie4242 said:

---

Quote:

---

With the end of the Soviet Union, much of the physical support for leftist causes evaporated

---

What are you trying to say here?

---

The Soviets funded and often armed violent left wing western organizations. The Red Brigades, Baader-Meinhof, etc as part of their Cold War efforts to undermine the west. GRU defector Viktor Suvorov (his nom-de-plume) makes this explicitly clear.

---

So nothing relevant to this conversation as BLM is nothing like any of those groups.

---

Actually, yes it is. Susan Rosenberg, now head of Thousand Currents, was a convicted terrorist pardoned by Bill Clinton whose organization serves as a conduit for funding from corporate America to BLM.. One of the founders is the Ford foundation. No surprise since Ford did business with the Nazis, their German plants producing thousands of Wehrmacht trucks.

Aggie4242 said:

---

Do you read the links you post, or are you just copy/pasting from somewhere?

From your louisville link:

Quote:

---

Phelix Crittenden, an activist who works with Black Lives Matter Louisville, said the demands and related "NuLu social justice health and wellness ratings" were not meant to be a threat but were instead intended to start a conversation with owners about how their businesses can better reflect and support Black people.

Crittenden, who also founded the organization Blacks Organizing Strategic Success, said several NuLu business owners have volunteered to sign the contract created by the protesters and are open to discussing their roles in the gentrification of the area, which has undergone hundreds of millions of dollars in development in recent years.

---

From your NY Post article:

Quote:

---

"I don't condone nor do I condemn rioting," Newsome continued. "But I'm just telling you what I observed."

MacCallum asked Newsome what Black Lives Matter hoped to achieve through violence.

"Wow, it's interesting that you would pose that question like that," Newsome responded, "because this country is built upon violence. What was the American Revolution? What's our diplomacy across the globe?"

"We go in and we blow up countries and we replace their leaders with leaders who we like. So for any American to accuse us of being violent is extremely hypocritical," Newsome added.

---

As to your Jewishpost link, I asked you to post facts, and you post an opinion piece that doesn't even reference the BLM website and is incredibly biased and heavy on conjecture. Since it appears you can use search engines, I have to wonder why you didn't find this webpage:

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-defunding-the-police-really-means/

Also, here is the co-founder of BLM explaining what "Defund the Police" means:

https://www.axios.com/defund-police-black-lives-matter-7007efac-0b24-44e2-a45c-c7f180c17b2e.html

Quote:

---

calls to "defund the police" are not about eliminating police departments, but about reinvesting funds toward "the resources that our communities need."

---

So, my question to you is, why don't you want to reinvest funds in the community? Why do you feel that many of the underfunded social services many cities provide don't deserve money?

---

Then why not take funds from other agencies in equal proportion as well? But their demands are to reduce funding for one of the two organizations vital to underserved communities, the other being fire//EMS/paramedics.

I agree I judge all groups by their worst members not their best. If the least if them can't be virtuous none of them can be.

Aggie4242 said:

---

UTExan said:

---

ramblin_ag02 said:

---

Quote:

---

It was to this that the bishop referred in the video: when there is no love of God, then it is difficult for one to love one's fellow man. He referred to patriotism as a constructive force, not a fetish and I think many confuse love of country and countrymen, and even a covenant between a people and their God as being "right-wing" or ultra-nationalist. But truthfully, many peoples have declared officially or believed unofficially, in a special relationship with God and this can be a force for good if kept in proper perspective.

---

I've got no problem with any of that. To me the difference between patriotism and ultra-nationalism is when only your country matters. For example, American Fruit Company used to topple governments in Latin America and use local populations as almost slave labor. This was good for the American business and economy and terrible for Latin America. A patriot would not support such things, but an ultra-nationalist would. Same thing with oil companies and the Middle East.

The other thing that gets me is that lots of countries think they have a special relationship with God. US thinks were are a Christian made nation. Italy thinks it is the heir to ancient Rome and true Christianity. Germany thinks they the heirs of the Reformation and true Christianity. Russia thinks they are the heir to Byzantine Orthodoxy and true Christianity. France, Britain and Spain see themselves as the great missionaries of history, spreading Christianity across the globe. Most of Latin America sees itself as the heirs to Catholicism in number of faithful. Israel thinks they are God's specifically chosen nation. So many countries think they are specifically special to God, and many of these have fought each other under these pretenses.

---

I think each nation is special to God; not superior, but with specific roles. We have been materially blessed and are expected to share with the less fortunate. One of my great disappointments with immigration is a blatantly obvious solution because we need workers and Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador have willing workers. Establishing integration camps at certain southern border areas to intake and assess migrants for medical status and work skills, then matching them with employers in the US would be a nearly ideal solution. And we could pay for the program by charging employers administrative costs and by dunning foreign aid for the countries for those who will not take care of their own citizens and/or who abuse them. Obviously, we cannot fix Central America---the Spanish did far too much damage and their peninsulares descendants still run these countries, lording it over the indigenous population---but we can do a lot.

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Why do you gloss over everything the United States did in Central/South America? Do you think the repeated American intervention/government overthrows have not had an impact on the economic growth of the region?

https://medium.com/s/story/timeline-us-intervention-central-america-a9bea9ebc148

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-panama-noriega-obituary/panamas-noriega-cia-spy-turned-drug-running-dictator-idUSKBN18Q0NW

To think that only the Spanish Empire is responsible for the wasteland that is Central America is unbelievable.

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I know well the US role in Central America. From Arbenz in Guatemala to installing Somoza we backed dictators who were nothing like the Jeffersonian model. Marine general Smedley Butler complained about that to Congress. And the role of US organized crime in Cuba contributed greatly to the success of Castro and the installation of his repressive regime. But none of that negates the genocidal repression practiced by the Spanish. Historian T R Fehrenbach details that in his history of Mexico (Fire and Blood). And the descendants of those Spanish now continue to rule those countries (Daniel Ortega in Nicaragua may be an exception) as the Indios are still repressed. Ask yourself why English and French colonies did much better in terms of human welfare and development of civil liberties and the answer lies in the Spanish model: Spanish overlords acquired vast tracts of land and largely denied private ownership rights to Indios, while simultaneously shutting them out of conduits to social mobility. Similarly, the Spanish levied labor (de facto slavery) from the Indios without adequate compensation. The Spanish record is there to read for any interested.

DevilDriver said:

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Quote:

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It was to this that the bishop referred in the video: when there is no love of God, then it is difficult for one to love one's fellow man.

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Not even considering the history of the catholic church, Im gonna have a hard time taking that seriously coming from a man whose organization spent $281 million settling child sex abuse cases in 2019 alone.

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If the bishop could control every priest in his jurisdiction I would agree. Same with pastors. I don't blame denominational leadership unless they ignored or covered up the abuse. I do not know Sheen's record in this matter and perhaps a Catholic brother or sister could chime in and tell us more. Sheen was ordained in 1919 and passed away in 1979.

UTExan said:

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Aggie4242 said:

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UTExan said:

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Aggie4242 said:

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Quote:

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With the end of the Soviet Union, much of the physical support for leftist causes evaporated

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What are you trying to say here?

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The Soviets funded and often armed violent left wing western organizations. The Red Brigades, Baader-Meinhof, etc as part of their Cold War efforts to undermine the west. GRU defector Viktor Suvorov (his nom-de-plume) makes this explicitly clear.

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So nothing relevant to this conversation as BLM is nothing like any of those groups.

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Actually, yes it is. Susan Rosenberg, now head of Thousand Currents, was a convicted terrorist pardoned by Bill Clinton whose organization serves as a conduit for funding from corporate America to BLM.. One of the founders is the Ford foundation. No surprise since Ford did business with the Nazis, their German plants producing thousands of Wehrmacht trucks.

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Just so I am clear...

You think the Weather Underground is exactly the same as the Red Brigade and Baader-Meinhof...

The Red Brigade killed 50 people over 50 different attacks

Baader-Meinhof killed at least 30 people

Do you hear yourself?

UTExan said:

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Aggie4242 said:

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UTExan said:

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ramblin_ag02 said:

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Quote:

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It was to this that the bishop referred in the video: when there is no love of God, then it is difficult for one to love one's fellow man. He referred to patriotism as a constructive force, not a fetish and I think many confuse love of country and countrymen, and even a covenant between a people and their God as being "right-wing" or ultra-nationalist. But truthfully, many peoples have declared officially or believed unofficially, in a special relationship with God and this can be a force for good if kept in proper perspective.

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I've got no problem with any of that. To me the difference between patriotism and ultra-nationalism is when only your country matters. For example, American Fruit Company used to topple governments in Latin America and use local populations as almost slave labor. This was good for the American business and economy and terrible for Latin America. A patriot would not support such things, but an ultra-nationalist would. Same thing with oil companies and the Middle East.

The other thing that gets me is that lots of countries think they have a special relationship with God. US thinks were are a Christian made nation. Italy thinks it is the heir to ancient Rome and true Christianity. Germany thinks they the heirs of the Reformation and true Christianity. Russia thinks they are the heir to Byzantine Orthodoxy and true Christianity. France, Britain and Spain see themselves as the great missionaries of history, spreading Christianity across the globe. Most of Latin America sees itself as the heirs to Catholicism in number of faithful. Israel thinks they are God's specifically chosen nation. So many countries think they are specifically special to God, and many of these have fought each other under these pretenses.

---

I think each nation is special to God; not superior, but with specific roles. We have been materially blessed and are expected to share with the less fortunate. One of my great disappointments with immigration is a blatantly obvious solution because we need workers and Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador have willing workers. Establishing integration camps at certain southern border areas to intake and assess migrants for medical status and work skills, then matching them with employers in the US would be a nearly ideal solution. And we could pay for the program by charging employers administrative costs and by dunning foreign aid for the countries for those who will not take care of their own citizens and/or who abuse them. Obviously, we cannot fix Central America---the Spanish did far too much damage and their peninsulares descendants still run these countries, lording it over the indigenous population---but we can do a lot.

---

Why do you gloss over everything the United States did in Central/South America? Do you think the repeated American intervention/government overthrows have not had an impact on the economic growth of the region?

https://medium.com/s/story/timeline-us-intervention-central-america-a9bea9ebc148

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-panama-noriega-obituary/panamas-noriega-cia-spy-turned-drug-running-dictator-idUSKBN18Q0NW

To think that only the Spanish Empire is responsible for the wasteland that is Central America is unbelievable.

---

I know well the US role in Central America. From Arbenz in Guatemala to installing Somoza we backed dictators who were nothing like the Jeffersonian model. Marine general Smedley Butler complained about that to Congress. And the role of US organized crime in Cuba contributed greatly to the success of Castro and the installation of his repressive regime. But none of that negates the genocidal repression practiced by the Spanish. Historian T R Fehrenbach details that in his history of Mexico (Fire and Blood). And the descendants of those Spanish now continue to rule those countries (Daniel Ortega in Nicaragua may be an exception) as the Indios are still repressed. Ask yourself why English and French colonies did much better in terms of human welfare and development of civil liberties and the answer lies in the Spanish model: Spanish overlords acquired vast tracts of land and largely denied private ownership rights to Indios, while simultaneously shutting them out of conduits to social mobility. Similarly, the Spanish levied labor (de facto slavery) from the Indios without adequate compensation. The Spanish record is there to read for any interested.

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Nobody disagrees that what the Spanish did had a huge influence in Central America.

I want to know why you left out everything America did over the last 150 years in Central America. As far as why the English and French colonies did better, it has nothing to do with civil liberties. How in the world are you completely ignoring how the Americans treated the Native American tribes in North America?

Further, everything you are talking about happened earlier than the 1800s. Do you really believe American influence since the mid-1800s didn't have a larger impact on modern Central America than the Spanish?

I am very impressed with your selective remembering of history though.

Aggie4242 said:

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UTExan said:

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Aggie4242 said:

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UTExan said:

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Aggie4242 said:

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Quote:

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With the end of the Soviet Union, much of the physical support for leftist causes evaporated

---

What are you trying to say here?

---

The Soviets funded and often armed violent left wing western organizations. The Red Brigades, Baader-Meinhof, etc as part of their Cold War efforts to undermine the west. GRU defector Viktor Suvorov (his nom-de-plume) makes this explicitly clear.

---

So nothing relevant to this conversation as BLM is nothing like any of those groups.

---

Actually, yes it is. Susan Rosenberg, now head of Thousand Currents, was a convicted terrorist pardoned by Bill Clinton whose organization serves as a conduit for funding from corporate America to BLM.. One of the founders is the Ford foundation. No surprise since Ford did business with the Nazis, their German plants producing thousands of Wehrmacht trucks.

---

Just so I am clear...

You think the Weather Underground is exactly the same as the Red Brigade and Baader-Meinhof...

The Red Brigade killed 50 people over 50 different attacks

Baader-Meinhof killed at least 30 people

Do you hear yourself?

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Yes, I think they are the same murderous, hateful, unrepentant ilk.

Quote:

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When SDS collapsed in 1969, the Weather Underground stepped forward, inspired by communist ideologies and embracing violence and crime as a way to protest the Vietnam War, racism, and other left-wing aims. "Our intention is to disrupt the empire ... to incapacitate it, to put pressure on the cracks," claimed the group's 1974 manifesto, Prairie Fire.

By the next year, the group had claimed credit for 25 bombingsincluding the U.S. Capitol, the Pentagon, the California Attorney General's office, and a New York City police station.

The FBI doggedly pursued these terrorists as their attacks mounted. Many members were identified, but their small numbers and guerrilla tactics helped them hide under assumed identities. In 1978, the Bureau arrested five members who were plotting to bomb a politician's office. Others were captured after two policemen and a Brinks' driver were murdered in a botched armored car robbery in Nanuet, New York, in 1981.

Key to disrupting the group for good was the newly created FBI-New York City Police Anti Terrorist Task Force. It brought together the strengths of both organizations and focused them on these domestic terrorists. The task force and others like it paved the way for today's Joint Terrorism Task Forcescreated by the Bureau in each of its field offices to fuse federal, state, and local law enforcement and intelligence resources to combat today's terrorist threats.

By the mid-'80s, the Weather Underground was essentially history. Still, several of these fugitives were able to successfully hide themselves for decades, emerging only in recent years to answer for their crimes. Once again, it shows that grit and partnerships can and will defeat shadowy, resilient terrorist groups.

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https://www.fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/weather-underground-bombings

If you think the Weather Underground was a benign social justice group, please review their history. I view them in the same light as the Ku Klux Klan.