Briefly, what was the new insight?

Just more details about the order of a Galilean wedding and how it directly ties into the return of christ, the last supper, etc. I knew some of this before but this really tied things together well.

thanks

Do you know they are theological position? Pre-trib amillennial? Etc.

Are there any specific pastors involved with this project? John MacArthur, John piper, Left Behind guys, etc.?

I've tended to avoid this area but would like a better basic understanding

Pre tribulation is something that MacAuthur preaches. I believe in post as taught by Pat Robertson 700 Club.

John Hagee tells us if you don't believe in the pre, then you will not be watching and miss out like the brides needing oil in their lamps. Wow, didn't know that was in the Bible, can't find it anywhere.

Max Lucado also paints a picture of a great escape before the tribulation .......unfortunately, no where in the Bible does Jesus tell us of saving his church from the great tribulation. Nope, just the opposite.

The sound of the last trumpet, the dead in Christ will rise first then the elect on earth followers. Nothing pre or mid about that.

I love to listen to all these preachers but as the end times draws near, I am wondering about the false teachers Jesus warned us about in the end times.

Pray for wisdom constantly and prepare for the worst.

It seems like to me that the Early Church just knew Jesus was coming back again and were uninterested in the details. And I can not remember any "timelines" in Scripture of how things were going to happen.

The key to me is staying in faith and communion with the Lord knowing that He loves His church and will take care of Her and us.

in support of pretrib:

2 Thessalonians 2 NIV

5 Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9

So I would say that holy spirit/church is holding back but a lot depends on the translation here because of the use of 'he is taken out of the way', but also says "what is holding him back". So there is a bit of ambiguity depending on translation (he some Holy Spirit/person/God) and what some force like the Holy Spirit along with Church. I am not a Scholar of Greek and do well enough to speak English so any kind of translation debate is above me.

1 Thessalonians 1 NIV
10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the deadJesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

Here Paul promises Jesus will rescue his church from the wrath/tribulation. So with these verses I think the case for pretrib is overwhelming but honest people can differ.

Quote:

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The sound of the last trumpet, the dead in Christ will rise first then the elect on earth followers. Nothing pre or mid about that.

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Not sure how that does not support Pretrib and not sure what verse you are quoting but:

1 Thessalonians 4 NIV
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

So what i get from that is those that are dead but were believers in Christ will first rise and then those who are alive during the rapture are called up. So I am not sure how that does not agree with pretrib.

AggielandPoultry said:

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Brings a new insight to the pre-tribulation rapture for anyone interested. I enjoyed it.

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Also anyone interested it is on TV this Friday on the Daystar channel.

"The coming wrath" does not mean some kind of temporary tribulation. The coming wrath is the day of visitation, the last judgment, and so on. The wrath of God is judgment against sin and evil. Jesus saves us from that.

I think most of these discussions are trying to unscrew the inscrutable and end up cherry picking things to make a point.

Zobel said:

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"The coming wrath" does not mean some kind of temporary tribulation. The coming wrath is the day of visitation, the last judgment, and so on. The wrath of God is judgment against sin and evil. Jesus saves us from that.

I think most of these discussions are trying to unscrew the inscrutable and end up cherry picking things to make a point.

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That is why I said there can be honest disagreement. It is not important for salvation or the mission of the Church. I think when it happens it will be obvious to everyone that is left what happened, at least I hope so... so if it is pretrib there is still time to accept Jesus.

Another reason I think pretrib is the book of Revelation was to encourage the Church.... With all the wrath coming down upon the earth, it is not very encouraging for those on it. Of course you can counter by saying we can be encouraged that God is in charge and everything moving by his plan.

I think it was given so we could know and recognize the times we are in. Sometimes Revelation is difficult and you have to look at other scripture to help you understand... and what you can't understand is probably OK and not needed. If we needed an exact timeline with all events we would have been given it.

But from Chapter 1:
3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

So we need to recognize the times. Me personally I think we are in the birth pangs.

Amen.

I personally think Revelation was written about the Roam. empire and as a way of encouraging the early Churches. I could easily be wrong.

Agree. I am a worrier and control freak by nature so it is difficult for me.

And the time is near from God's perspective.

The Revelation is never read aloud in the Orthodox Church.

Here's an interesting book on it:
https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/wholecounsel/2018/08/15/is-the-book-of-revelation-canonical-in-the-orthodox-church/

I think the whole discussion is superfluous.

Zobel said:

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The Revelation is never read aloud in the Orthodox Church.

Here's an interesting book on it:
https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/wholecounsel/2018/08/15/is-the-book-of-revelation-canonical-in-the-orthodox-church/

I think the whole discussion is superfluous.

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It is useful for revealing the problem with personal interpretation of Scripture without guidance. And there are a lot of fierce inerrant Christians who have totally different interpretations of the exact same words.

IMO if you can't see the picture of Yom Kippur in Revelation then you are missing it. Yom Kippur is a day of judgement.