Archbishop Vigano: Vatican II, Freemasons, Jesuits etc...

3,265 Views | 21 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by jrico2727
chimpanzee
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"Parallel church"

Commentary on statement

Vigano was the papal ambassador (Nuncio) to the U.S., I believe. He's sounding a lot like the SSPX folks these days. Hard to argue that there was not accelerated fragmentation of the RCC following Vatican II, the conspiratorial stuff seems a bit offputting to me and less likely than a church leadership going along with the prevailing winds of the secular society.

I'm still waiting to see what comes of the German Synodal Path stuff, that could be bigger than anything since VII.

Seamaster
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All of it is very important.

And depressing.

jrico2727
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God Bless Archbishop Vigano!
He was the Papal Nuncio, also he is the one who exposed Cardinal McCarrick and brought to light his vile pederasty and cover-ups. Before accusing him to be a schismatic I would look at his body of work. He is a loyal son of the Church and is putting his life on the line to get the truth out there.

Vatican II has been a complete failure. I personally am unable to find one successful thing about it. First, it was never declared to be infallible. Yet it moved the tabernacle from being in center of the church in many places, High Altars were ripped out and table was put in its stead. The priest no longer faces God but man. The liturgy has been decimated and protestantized. The liturgy of all 7 sacraments have been changed. Altar rails were ripped out and the practice of communion in the hand was spread. This is a small sample of how the faith has been hijacked and 2000 years of tradition are being forgotten and changed.

Compare the pre 1962 church with our numbers now for Mass Attendance, Vocations, Belief in Church Teachings, and most importantly belief in the Holy Eucharist.

Redstone
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Vigano is a prophet.

And let us remember that over the 2,000 year history, the Church has had about 35 antipopes. And that Benedict still wears white, gives his Apostolic blessing, lives in the Apostolic Palace, and ... did he validly resign? And the ministry, or the office?
PabloSerna
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jrico2727 said:

God Bless Archbishop Vigano!
He was the Papal Nuncio, also he is the one who exposed Cardinal McCarrick and brought to light his vile pederasty and cover-ups. Before accusing him to be a schismatic I would look at his body of work. He is a loyal son of the Church and is putting his life on the line to get the truth out there.

Vatican II has been a complete failure. I personally am unable to find one successful thing about it. First, it was never declared to be infallible. Yet it moved the tabernacle from being in center of the church in many places, High Altars were ripped out and table was put in its stead. The priest no longer faces God but man. The liturgy has been decimated and protestantized. The liturgy of all 7 sacraments have been changed. Altar rails were ripped out and the practice of communion in the hand was spread. This is a small sample of how the faith has been hijacked and 2000 years of tradition are being forgotten and changed.

Compare the pre 1962 church with our numbers now for Mass Attendance, Vocations, Belief in Church Teachings, and most importantly belief in the Holy Eucharist.


I could not disagree with you more on that one statement alone.

For me and my family, we did attempt to attend a Traditional Latin Rite Mass only to feel ... empty.

For me, personally, some of my fondest memories are from the music, art, and prayers that lifted me up spiritually to gaze into the eyes of our lord through the this new liturgy. I am sure many can say otherwise - but you asked for one successful thing.

+pablo
PabloSerna
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Seamaster said:

All of it is very important.

And depressing.


Its like Martha and Mary all over again.

+pablo
chimpanzee
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As implied, the church has been through worse, but few of know anything other than post VII liturgy and whatever else filtered down since.

I'm curious what Vigano and others have seen that is evidence of the Freemasons' involvement in the VII proceedings or elsewhere. That seems far fetched and a convenient shortcut to explain the manifest normal human failures of the Vatican bureaucracy that he and others tolerated for too long. Vigano pretty much admits that he was too trusting for decades, but now who's left to set sound seminary curriculum, where's the tangible unbroken connection to the Apostolic faith?

All questions of importance to the early Reformation, I suppose as well as a, "yeah, this is why we don't change things" approach from the Orthodox. Many interesting perspectives to see this from other than Rome.

I'm tending to think personally the need for emphasis on the Holy Spirit in the here and now is particularly under-emphasized.
jrico2727
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Read Taylor Marshall's infiltration. Listen to Father Ripperger. Or at the very least study Archbishop Bungini he was the architect of the new mass and there is very strong evidence of him being a freemason.
Redstone
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Desecration

Sacrilege
chimpanzee
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Redstone said:

Desecration

Sacrilege


So, your holiness, suppose I were so misguided as to want to worship and/or venerate a pagan idol. What would that look like?

CrackerJackAg
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I don't know about any of that...I quit following you guys after your guy slapped a Papal Bull on the alter of the Hagia Sophia on Easter Sunday a millennia or so ago.

Well, minus the sacking, looting and destruction of Constantinople. That was hard to miss.

You guys are on roll.
PabloSerna
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chimpanzee said:

"Parallel church"

Commentary on statement

Vigano was the papal ambassador (Nuncio) to the U.S., I believe. He's sounding a lot like the SSPX folks these days. Hard to argue that there was not accelerated fragmentation of the RCC following Vatican II, the conspiratorial stuff seems a bit offputting to me and less likely than a church leadership going along with the prevailing winds of the secular society.

I'm still waiting to see what comes of the German Synodal Path stuff, that could be bigger than anything since VII.


Read through Vigano's statement and the commentary. Here are my thoughts as a somewhat, so-called "left leaning Catholic":

1. That he seems to be denouncing Vatican II from the outset is telling. I do not doubt that there are factions within the RCC. My hope as a lay person was that the hand of God would always win out and I still believe that to be the case. As I recall, Vatican II was a "breath of fresh air" without changing the authentic truth that the RCC has always professed. At least that is how I was formed as an adult since 1996 (Dominican 3rd Order).

2. I remember encountering Liberation Theology for the first time and not really understanding where it was coming from. I had the initial knee jerk reaction because of its Marxist underpinnings, especially when it comes to economics. The temptation to reject it wholly because of my misconceptions is where I find a lot of my brothers and sisters. Instead, I read "The Power of the Poor in History." It has been a while, however, a few of the points that have stuck with me are:

A. We should not impose, as it were, a "grid" or "cookie cutter" westernized spirituality onto the people, particularly the poor and marginalized in the Americas. Now this presumes you are in active ministry and preaching in some capacity to folks in your area. This is of particular relevance to my neck of the wood where we have many "communidads de base" - base communities or neighborhood prayer group.

B. In the past, going as far back as the first missionary priests from Spain and Portugal - we have had the westernization of the Americas by Europeans. It has been brutal to (my ancestors) indigenous people from California to the Andes in South America. I also believe it is the main reason many Hispanics have been leaving the RCC faith for other Christian denominations where their language is celebrated through song and not holding up white, European Saints as what you should strive to be more like. This is why Our Lady of Guadalupe, Miguel Pro, San Martin de Porres, and few other western examples have made in-roads.

C. I remember, Fr. Ralph Rogowski OP, telling us that, what Gutierrez and others proposed is that we should look at spiritually from the "people up" and not from the "church down." For the first time, in my life at least, I was being told that not only does God love me, but that he made me to be an instrument of his grace to the people in my time and place. We (Lay Dominicans) studied parts of the Vatican II documents to better understand what was meant to be "Priest, Prophet, and King."

In summary, when I see the "pachamamma" figurine present at a prayer service - I do not see an idol being adored - but rather an aspect of a people search for truth - being included in the presence of the one, true God.

Not sure if any of this makes sense to y'all - but I hope it helps explain the other side.

+pablo

chimpanzee
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Thanks for that, though accommodating new spiritual practices developed outside of official Vatican sanction in search of the truth has a pretty rough track record historically.

I would think though that the infallibility of the Magesterium depends on it s message being universal, particularly pan-cultural. If someone finds that saints aren't compelling because they are from another culture or have lighter skin, does that mean the Magesterium is wrong to venerate them in the presence of people that have different folklore?

If the Lutherans, and Calvinists are still "wrong" over interpretive differences (to say nothing of the Albigensians), those that incorporate completely novel concepts of "spirituality" and "truth seeking" into liturgy and worship that do not involve Christ, scripture or tradition at all can't be given a pass in part because some depictions of the saints superficially resemble people that conquered their land. Whatever the Europeans did wrong, they had with them the Gospel when they arrived, bringing salvation to people that had not heard of Christ. Now, I've heard recently of prelates boasting of not baptizing a single indigenous person in South America, which is of a piece with the extreme cultural deference/sensitivity, but completely counter to millennia of church practice.

I still think that if the Tridentine Mass had the connection to the faithful that it should have, the laity and clergy wouldn't have permitted it's dismissal at the stroke of a pen. The counterargument is, as noted, that the RCC is, through nefarious efforts, in schism with its true self and going down the wrong path. That's hardly unprecedented, and therefore worth taking seriously as a possibility.
jrico2727
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Prayer for The United States of America Composed by His Excellency Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano.


Almighty and Eternal God, King of Kings and Lord of Lords: graciously turn your gaze to us who invoke You with confidence. Bless us, citizens of the United States of America; grant peace and prosperity to our Nation; illuminate those who govern us so that they may commit themselves to the common good, in respect for Your holy Law. Protect those who, defending the inviolable principles of the Natural Law and Your Commandments, must face the repeated assaults of the Enemy of the human race. Keep in the hearts of Your children courage for the truth, love for virtue and perseverance in the midst of trials. Make our families grow in the example that Our Lord has given us, together with His Most Holy Mother and Saint Joseph in the home of Nazareth; give to our fathers and mothers the gift of Strength, to educate wisely the children with which you have blessed them. Give courage to those who, in spiritual combat, fight the good fight as soldiers of Christ against the furious forces of the children of darkness. Keep each one of us, O Lord, in your Most Sacred Heart, and above all He whom Your Providence has placed at the head of our Nation. Bless the President of the United States of America, so that aware of his responsibility and his duties, he may be a knight of justice, a defender of the oppressed, a firm bulwark against Your enemies, and a proud supporter of the children of light. Place the United States of America and the whole world under the mantle of the Queen of Victories, our Unconquered Leader in battle, the Immaculate Conception. It is thanks to her, and through your Mercy, that the hymn of praise rises to you, O Lord, from the children whom you have redeemed in the Most Precious Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.
Daddy
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I am not a Catholic and I have some strong theological differences that I can't over look

but I will say I look at the heart and the love for the Father and His son Yeshua (Jesus) and being led by the Spirit of God and He has that and God bless him for his Truth and God is using him to speak to an audience that is being led astray and he's a voice of truth and reason.

Keep it going Arch Bishop Vigano sir
BamaAggies
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Since I really don't know too much about this topic, I was wondering if Dr. Taylor Marshall is a good resource? I have watched a few of his videos. Any thoughts if he is worth watching? Is there a better source?


RebelE Infantry
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He is a good source. Also check out his older videos (pre summer 2018) for awesome resources on Catholicism. Most of his content since then is related to the various scandals that have surface. Still good info but his early stuff is invaluable.

He's an Ag btw.
Ordhound04
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His biblical commentaries were pretty cool from some of the stuff I saw.


His "Hot takes" so to speak on current events....Not so much.
Pet Sounds
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He's a good source but he kinda lost me after warming up to the SSPX. I also don't really agree with the faithful publicly bashing the Church all that much either. His former Protestant roots really show in this regard.
RebelE Infantry
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The SSPX thing didn't bother me so much, but lately I've grown tired of his political topics. I really wish he would throw in a more educational episode every now and again, but I guess the tabloid style videos get more attention. His recent video about the invalid baptism mess in the Archdiocese of Detroit was pretty good though.
Render
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These are great resources.

https://www.wordonfire.org/vatican-ii-faq/

https://www.wordonfire.org/vatican-ii/

jrico2727
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jrico2727
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