How often do people speak in tongues during your services?
Pentecostals
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Last: 3 yr ago by Daddy
The church my girlfriend goes to is Pentecostal in all but name. Asked and they shy away from it. You will NEVER see them speak in tongues during a service, in public or on tv.
But behind closed doors? Everyone is speaking in tongues. My girlfriend was made to feel like she wasnt a real Christian because she doesnt do it.
I asked some other members of the church what the deal was and they told me "the church is focused on being seeker friendly, so we try to keep things that might scare off new Christians to our more experienced and intimate small groups."
I just think they are cowards and no better than mormons with their "milk before meat" bs.
But behind closed doors? Everyone is speaking in tongues. My girlfriend was made to feel like she wasnt a real Christian because she doesnt do it.
I asked some other members of the church what the deal was and they told me "the church is focused on being seeker friendly, so we try to keep things that might scare off new Christians to our more experienced and intimate small groups."
I just think they are cowards and no better than mormons with their "milk before meat" bs.
Don't they believe that a truly saved person receives the gift of speaking in tongues when they get saved?
Why is speaking in tongues always gibberish and never an actual language?
We saved folks can understand what they're saying.powerbelly said:
Why is speaking in tongues always gibberish and never an actual language?
powerbelly said:
Why is speaking in tongues always gibberish and never an actual language?
We all know the answer to that. It's a "miracle" you can't disprove.
Now, apply that same logic to transubstantiation.
Larry Lajitas said:
How often do people speak in tongues during your services?
This is known as praying in the spirit and is not intended for public display but for gatherings of smaller groups of Pentecostal Christians and with a person who has the gift of interpreting tongues. Everything is to be done in order according to Paul's instructions and the gift is to encourage the church. I don't know that you will see this in general services of such churches as Assembly of God but you certainly might. Charismatics in the Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist and other traditions also use this gift. It is a "lesser gift" if you will. Since you are Catholic, you might contact a local charismatic group within your church for better insight.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
I'm Orthodox so we don't place much emphasis on it, although it is recognized as a lesser gift (if even that) as you mentioned. I was just curious since we had a former Pentecostal join our parish.
I've always wondered where the Pentecostal movement got that from. I don't see anywhere in church history that understanding tongues is an indicator to being saved. I bet you can find the exact year and person who set that Protestant doctrine.Patriarch said:We saved folks can understand what they're saying.powerbelly said:
Why is speaking in tongues always gibberish and never an actual language?
It started with Wesleyan perfectionism.Larry Lajitas said:I've always wondered where the Pentecostal movement got that from. I don't see anywhere in church history that understanding tongues is an indicator to being saved. I bet you can find the exact year and person who set that Protestant doctrine.Patriarch said:We saved folks can understand what they're saying.powerbelly said:
Why is speaking in tongues always gibberish and never an actual language?
Kerrville Pentecostal selling peaches from Fredericksburg in Boerne.
Speak any language.........for peaches
Speak any language.........for peaches
The speaking in tongues in Acts 2 NEEDED NO INTERPRETING. That's actually the exact thing thing made it so notable (besides the visible tongues of fire as well). Whatever Pentecostal thing you are describing that needs interpretation is NOT speaking in tongues according to Acts 2 (Pentecost, that is)UTExan said:Larry Lajitas said:
How often do people speak in tongues during your services?
This is known as praying in the spirit and is not intended for public display but for gatherings of smaller groups of Pentecostal Christians and with a person who has the gift of interpreting tongues. Everything is to be done in order according to Paul's instructions and the gift is to encourage the church. I don't know that you will see this in general services of such churches as Assembly of God but you certainly might. Charismatics in the Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist and other traditions also use this gift. It is a "lesser gift" if you will. Since you are Catholic, you might contact a local charismatic group within your church for better insight.
Larry, you might also try this link for charismatic Orthodox churches.
https://theucoc.org/
https://theucoc.org/
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Win At Life said:The speaking in tongues in Acts 2 NEEDED NO INTERPRETING. That's actually the exact thing thing made it so notable (besides the visible tongues of fire as well). Whatever Pentecostal thing you are describing that needs interpretation is NOT speaking in tongues according to Acts 2 (Pentecost, that is)UTExan said:Larry Lajitas said:
How often do people speak in tongues during your services?
This is known as praying in the spirit and is not intended for public display but for gatherings of smaller groups of Pentecostal Christians and with a person who has the gift of interpreting tongues. Everything is to be done in order according to Paul's instructions and the gift is to encourage the church. I don't know that you will see this in general services of such churches as Assembly of God but you certainly might. Charismatics in the Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist and other traditions also use this gift. It is a "lesser gift" if you will. Since you are Catholic, you might contact a local charismatic group within your church for better insight.
Then why did Paul write about speaking with the tongues of men or of angels in 1 Corinthians 13?
You also assume that those who speak in tongues speak an unintelligible language. Yet, there are instances of people speaking in languages known to those in audiences. Because you have not witnessed that does not mean that it hasn't happened.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Tongues of men are men speaking one language at a time just like men like you and me. Tongues of angels are men speaking where anyone in ear-shot can hear them in their own language just as what was described in Acts 2.UTExan said:Win At Life said:The speaking in tongues in Acts 2 NEEDED NO INTERPRETING. That's actually the exact thing thing made it so notable (besides the visible tongues of fire as well). Whatever Pentecostal thing you are describing that needs interpretation is NOT speaking in tongues according to Acts 2 (Pentecost, that is)UTExan said:Larry Lajitas said:
How often do people speak in tongues during your services?
This is known as praying in the spirit and is not intended for public display but for gatherings of smaller groups of Pentecostal Christians and with a person who has the gift of interpreting tongues. Everything is to be done in order according to Paul's instructions and the gift is to encourage the church. I don't know that you will see this in general services of such churches as Assembly of God but you certainly might. Charismatics in the Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist and other traditions also use this gift. It is a "lesser gift" if you will. Since you are Catholic, you might contact a local charismatic group within your church for better insight.
Then why did Paul write about speaking with the tongues of men or of angels in 1 Corinthians 13?
You also assume that those who speak in tongues speak an unintelligible language. Yet, there are instances of people speaking in languages known to those in audiences. Because you have not witnessed that does not mean that it hasn't happened.
UTExan said:
Larry, you might also try this link for charismatic Orthodox churches.
https://theucoc.org/
Just going off the picture posted on their site, this is not Orthodox, not close at all.
Win At Life said:Tongues of men are men speaking one language at a time just like men like you and me. Tongues of angels are men speaking where anyone in ear-shot can hear them in their own language just as what was described in Acts 2.UTExan said:Win At Life said:The speaking in tongues in Acts 2 NEEDED NO INTERPRETING. That's actually the exact thing thing made it so notable (besides the visible tongues of fire as well). Whatever Pentecostal thing you are describing that needs interpretation is NOT speaking in tongues according to Acts 2 (Pentecost, that is)UTExan said:Larry Lajitas said:
How often do people speak in tongues during your services?
This is known as praying in the spirit and is not intended for public display but for gatherings of smaller groups of Pentecostal Christians and with a person who has the gift of interpreting tongues. Everything is to be done in order according to Paul's instructions and the gift is to encourage the church. I don't know that you will see this in general services of such churches as Assembly of God but you certainly might. Charismatics in the Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist and other traditions also use this gift. It is a "lesser gift" if you will. Since you are Catholic, you might contact a local charismatic group within your church for better insight.
Then why did Paul write about speaking with the tongues of men or of angels in 1 Corinthians 13?
You also assume that those who speak in tongues speak an unintelligible language. Yet, there are instances of people speaking in languages known to those in audiences. Because you have not witnessed that does not mean that it hasn't happened.
And you know this how? Or is that your private interpretation of scripture?
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
TSJ said:UTExan said:
Larry, you might also try this link for charismatic Orthodox churches.
https://theucoc.org/
Just going off the picture posted on their site, this is not Orthodox, not close at all.
They consider themselves Orthodox. Who am I to argue?
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Before I found the Orthodox faith this is something that might have interested me. I was all over the place. Unfortunately they are not Orthodox since they are not associated with the Church in any way.UTExan said:TSJ said:UTExan said:
Larry, you might also try this link for charismatic Orthodox churches.
https://theucoc.org/
Just going off the picture posted on their site, this is not Orthodox, not close at all.
They consider themselves Orthodox. Who am I to argue?
As far as I can tell every church outside the Orthodox Church is setup for private interpretation. Sola Scripture and Galileo laid that foundation. I'll admit I don't know enough of the Catholic Church to understand how they consider the Pope to be infallible outside the Orthodox faith.UTExan said:Win At Life said:Tongues of men are men speaking one language at a time just like men like you and me. Tongues of angels are men speaking where anyone in ear-shot can hear them in their own language just as what was described in Acts 2.UTExan said:Win At Life said:The speaking in tongues in Acts 2 NEEDED NO INTERPRETING. That's actually the exact thing thing made it so notable (besides the visible tongues of fire as well). Whatever Pentecostal thing you are describing that needs interpretation is NOT speaking in tongues according to Acts 2 (Pentecost, that is)UTExan said:Larry Lajitas said:
How often do people speak in tongues during your services?
This is known as praying in the spirit and is not intended for public display but for gatherings of smaller groups of Pentecostal Christians and with a person who has the gift of interpreting tongues. Everything is to be done in order according to Paul's instructions and the gift is to encourage the church. I don't know that you will see this in general services of such churches as Assembly of God but you certainly might. Charismatics in the Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist and other traditions also use this gift. It is a "lesser gift" if you will. Since you are Catholic, you might contact a local charismatic group within your church for better insight.
Then why did Paul write about speaking with the tongues of men or of angels in 1 Corinthians 13?
You also assume that those who speak in tongues speak an unintelligible language. Yet, there are instances of people speaking in languages known to those in audiences. Because you have not witnessed that does not mean that it hasn't happened.
And you know this how? Or is that your private interpretation of scripture?
Larry Lajitas said:As far as I can tell every church outside the Orthodox Church is setup for private interpretation. Sola Scripture and Galileo laid that foundation. I'll admit I don't know enough of the Catholic Church to understand how they consider the Pope to be infallible outside the Orthodox faith.UTExan said:Win At Life said:Tongues of men are men speaking one language at a time just like men like you and me. Tongues of angels are men speaking where anyone in ear-shot can hear them in their own language just as what was described in Acts 2.UTExan said:Win At Life said:The speaking in tongues in Acts 2 NEEDED NO INTERPRETING. That's actually the exact thing thing made it so notable (besides the visible tongues of fire as well). Whatever Pentecostal thing you are describing that needs interpretation is NOT speaking in tongues according to Acts 2 (Pentecost, that is)UTExan said:Larry Lajitas said:
How often do people speak in tongues during your services?
This is known as praying in the spirit and is not intended for public display but for gatherings of smaller groups of Pentecostal Christians and with a person who has the gift of interpreting tongues. Everything is to be done in order according to Paul's instructions and the gift is to encourage the church. I don't know that you will see this in general services of such churches as Assembly of God but you certainly might. Charismatics in the Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist and other traditions also use this gift. It is a "lesser gift" if you will. Since you are Catholic, you might contact a local charismatic group within your church for better insight.
Then why did Paul write about speaking with the tongues of men or of angels in 1 Corinthians 13?
You also assume that those who speak in tongues speak an unintelligible language. Yet, there are instances of people speaking in languages known to those in audiences. Because you have not witnessed that does not mean that it hasn't happened.
And you know this how? Or is that your private interpretation of scripture?
We (Catholics) are not set up for private interpretation either, except for, as I understandit, a VERY limited capacity. Here is an article from St. Mary's blog that goes into some detail.
http://www.aggiecatholicblog.org/2014/06/catholics-bible-personal-interpretation/
It's a logical interpretation of words that are written in a way that avoids self-contradictions, which is how we generally interpret any spoken or written language every day.UTExan said:Win At Life said:Tongues of men are men speaking one language at a time just like men like you and me. Tongues of angels are men speaking where anyone in ear-shot can hear them in their own language just as what was described in Acts 2.UTExan said:Win At Life said:The speaking in tongues in Acts 2 NEEDED NO INTERPRETING. That's actually the exact thing thing made it so notable (besides the visible tongues of fire as well). Whatever Pentecostal thing you are describing that needs interpretation is NOT speaking in tongues according to Acts 2 (Pentecost, that is)UTExan said:Larry Lajitas said:
How often do people speak in tongues during your services?
This is known as praying in the spirit and is not intended for public display but for gatherings of smaller groups of Pentecostal Christians and with a person who has the gift of interpreting tongues. Everything is to be done in order according to Paul's instructions and the gift is to encourage the church. I don't know that you will see this in general services of such churches as Assembly of God but you certainly might. Charismatics in the Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist and other traditions also use this gift. It is a "lesser gift" if you will. Since you are Catholic, you might contact a local charismatic group within your church for better insight.
Then why did Paul write about speaking with the tongues of men or of angels in 1 Corinthians 13?
You also assume that those who speak in tongues speak an unintelligible language. Yet, there are instances of people speaking in languages known to those in audiences. Because you have not witnessed that does not mean that it hasn't happened.
And you know this how? Or is that your private interpretation of scripture?
Win At Life said:It's a logical interpretation of words that are written in a way that avoids self-contradictions, which is how we generally interpret any spoken or written language every day.UTExan said:Win At Life said:Tongues of men are men speaking one language at a time just like men like you and me. Tongues of angels are men speaking where anyone in ear-shot can hear them in their own language just as what was described in Acts 2.UTExan said:Win At Life said:The speaking in tongues in Acts 2 NEEDED NO INTERPRETING. That's actually the exact thing thing made it so notable (besides the visible tongues of fire as well). Whatever Pentecostal thing you are describing that needs interpretation is NOT speaking in tongues according to Acts 2 (Pentecost, that is)UTExan said:Larry Lajitas said:
How often do people speak in tongues during your services?
This is known as praying in the spirit and is not intended for public display but for gatherings of smaller groups of Pentecostal Christians and with a person who has the gift of interpreting tongues. Everything is to be done in order according to Paul's instructions and the gift is to encourage the church. I don't know that you will see this in general services of such churches as Assembly of God but you certainly might. Charismatics in the Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist and other traditions also use this gift. It is a "lesser gift" if you will. Since you are Catholic, you might contact a local charismatic group within your church for better insight.
Then why did Paul write about speaking with the tongues of men or of angels in 1 Corinthians 13?
You also assume that those who speak in tongues speak an unintelligible language. Yet, there are instances of people speaking in languages known to those in audiences. Because you have not witnessed that does not mean that it hasn't happened.
And you know this how? Or is that your private interpretation of scripture?
No, your assertion regarding tongues of angels makes no sense as you have described it. Why would tongues of angels be necessary if it was discourse between humans? Perhaps if you don't understand the phenomenon it is a way to dismiss it without having to deal with its actual existence. BTW, such a gift does not mark the recipient as superior in any way to other Christian. It is a gift to glorify God and encourage the church, despite its abuse by many.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
You're losing me a little bit. Acts 2 was a discourse between humans. And every human heard what was being said by the speaker in their own language as it was being spoken with no need of an interpreter. That's pretty spectacular and I do not dismiss its existence at all. But what language were these humans speaking in that everyone heard what was being said in their own language? Calling that "tongues of Angles" seems pretty fitting.UTExan said:Win At Life said:It's a logical interpretation of words that are written in a way that avoids self-contradictions, which is how we generally interpret any spoken or written language every day.UTExan said:Win At Life said:Tongues of men are men speaking one language at a time just like men like you and me. Tongues of angels are men speaking where anyone in ear-shot can hear them in their own language just as what was described in Acts 2.UTExan said:Win At Life said:The speaking in tongues in Acts 2 NEEDED NO INTERPRETING. That's actually the exact thing thing made it so notable (besides the visible tongues of fire as well). Whatever Pentecostal thing you are describing that needs interpretation is NOT speaking in tongues according to Acts 2 (Pentecost, that is)UTExan said:Larry Lajitas said:
How often do people speak in tongues during your services?
This is known as praying in the spirit and is not intended for public display but for gatherings of smaller groups of Pentecostal Christians and with a person who has the gift of interpreting tongues. Everything is to be done in order according to Paul's instructions and the gift is to encourage the church. I don't know that you will see this in general services of such churches as Assembly of God but you certainly might. Charismatics in the Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist and other traditions also use this gift. It is a "lesser gift" if you will. Since you are Catholic, you might contact a local charismatic group within your church for better insight.
Then why did Paul write about speaking with the tongues of men or of angels in 1 Corinthians 13?
You also assume that those who speak in tongues speak an unintelligible language. Yet, there are instances of people speaking in languages known to those in audiences. Because you have not witnessed that does not mean that it hasn't happened.
And you know this how? Or is that your private interpretation of scripture?
No, your assertion regarding tongues of angels makes no sense as you have described it. Why would tongues of angels be necessary if it was discourse between humans? Perhaps if you don't understand the phenomenon it is a way to dismiss it without having to deal with its actual existence. BTW, such a gift does not mark the recipient as superior in any way to other Christian. It is a gift to glorify God and encourage the church, despite its abuse by many.
Win At Life said:You're losing me a little bit. Acts 2 was a discourse between humans. And every human heard what was being said by the speaker in their own language as it was being spoken with no need of an interpreter. That's pretty spectacular and I do not dismiss its existence at all. But what language were these humans speaking in that everyone heard what was being said in their own language? Calling that "tongues of Angles" seems pretty fitting.UTExan said:Win At Life said:It's a logical interpretation of words that are written in a way that avoids self-contradictions, which is how we generally interpret any spoken or written language every day.UTExan said:Win At Life said:Tongues of men are men speaking one language at a time just like men like you and me. Tongues of angels are men speaking where anyone in ear-shot can hear them in their own language just as what was described in Acts 2.UTExan said:Win At Life said:The speaking in tongues in Acts 2 NEEDED NO INTERPRETING. That's actually the exact thing thing made it so notable (besides the visible tongues of fire as well). Whatever Pentecostal thing you are describing that needs interpretation is NOT speaking in tongues according to Acts 2 (Pentecost, that is)UTExan said:Larry Lajitas said:
How often do people speak in tongues during your services?
This is known as praying in the spirit and is not intended for public display but for gatherings of smaller groups of Pentecostal Christians and with a person who has the gift of interpreting tongues. Everything is to be done in order according to Paul's instructions and the gift is to encourage the church. I don't know that you will see this in general services of such churches as Assembly of God but you certainly might. Charismatics in the Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist and other traditions also use this gift. It is a "lesser gift" if you will. Since you are Catholic, you might contact a local charismatic group within your church for better insight.
Then why did Paul write about speaking with the tongues of men or of angels in 1 Corinthians 13?
You also assume that those who speak in tongues speak an unintelligible language. Yet, there are instances of people speaking in languages known to those in audiences. Because you have not witnessed that does not mean that it hasn't happened.
And you know this how? Or is that your private interpretation of scripture?
No, your assertion regarding tongues of angels makes no sense as you have described it. Why would tongues of angels be necessary if it was discourse between humans? Perhaps if you don't understand the phenomenon it is a way to dismiss it without having to deal with its actual existence. BTW, such a gift does not mark the recipient as superior in any way to other Christian. It is a gift to glorify God and encourage the church, despite its abuse by many.
I do disagree with you there given Paul's descriptions of tongues.
So Paul's description of tongues is different than the tongues spoken in Acts 2? There are TWO speaking in tongues; one that's clearly a miracle and another one that's easily fabricated by people throwing out gibberish? Or is it that speaking in tongues is exactly what Acts 2 describes it to be, the tongues Paul is taking about is just basic human languages that needed interpreting for those not speaking that language and speaking gibberish for God is seen nowhere in the bible?UTExan said:Win At Life said:You're losing me a little bit. Acts 2 was a discourse between humans. And every human heard what was being said by the speaker in their own language as it was being spoken with no need of an interpreter. That's pretty spectacular and I do not dismiss its existence at all. But what language were these humans speaking in that everyone heard what was being said in their own language? Calling that "tongues of Angles" seems pretty fitting.UTExan said:Win At Life said:It's a logical interpretation of words that are written in a way that avoids self-contradictions, which is how we generally interpret any spoken or written language every day.UTExan said:Win At Life said:Tongues of men are men speaking one language at a time just like men like you and me. Tongues of angels are men speaking where anyone in ear-shot can hear them in their own language just as what was described in Acts 2.UTExan said:Win At Life said:The speaking in tongues in Acts 2 NEEDED NO INTERPRETING. That's actually the exact thing thing made it so notable (besides the visible tongues of fire as well). Whatever Pentecostal thing you are describing that needs interpretation is NOT speaking in tongues according to Acts 2 (Pentecost, that is)UTExan said:Larry Lajitas said:
How often do people speak in tongues during your services?
This is known as praying in the spirit and is not intended for public display but for gatherings of smaller groups of Pentecostal Christians and with a person who has the gift of interpreting tongues. Everything is to be done in order according to Paul's instructions and the gift is to encourage the church. I don't know that you will see this in general services of such churches as Assembly of God but you certainly might. Charismatics in the Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist and other traditions also use this gift. It is a "lesser gift" if you will. Since you are Catholic, you might contact a local charismatic group within your church for better insight.
Then why did Paul write about speaking with the tongues of men or of angels in 1 Corinthians 13?
You also assume that those who speak in tongues speak an unintelligible language. Yet, there are instances of people speaking in languages known to those in audiences. Because you have not witnessed that does not mean that it hasn't happened.
And you know this how? Or is that your private interpretation of scripture?
No, your assertion regarding tongues of angels makes no sense as you have described it. Why would tongues of angels be necessary if it was discourse between humans? Perhaps if you don't understand the phenomenon it is a way to dismiss it without having to deal with its actual existence. BTW, such a gift does not mark the recipient as superior in any way to other Christian. It is a gift to glorify God and encourage the church, despite its abuse by many.
I do disagree with you there given Paul's descriptions of tongues.
Win At Life said:So Paul's description of tongues is different than the tongues spoken in Acts 2? There are TWO speaking in tongues; one that's clearly a miracle and another one that's easily fabricated by people throwing out gibberish? Or is it that speaking in tongues is exactly what Acts 2 describes it to be, the tongues Paul is taking about is just basic human languages that needed interpreting for those not speaking that language and speaking gibberish for God is seen nowhere in the bible?UTExan said:Win At Life said:You're losing me a little bit. Acts 2 was a discourse between humans. And every human heard what was being said by the speaker in their own language as it was being spoken with no need of an interpreter. That's pretty spectacular and I do not dismiss its existence at all. But what language were these humans speaking in that everyone heard what was being said in their own language? Calling that "tongues of Angles" seems pretty fitting.UTExan said:Win At Life said:It's a logical interpretation of words that are written in a way that avoids self-contradictions, which is how we generally interpret any spoken or written language every day.UTExan said:Win At Life said:Tongues of men are men speaking one language at a time just like men like you and me. Tongues of angels are men speaking where anyone in ear-shot can hear them in their own language just as what was described in Acts 2.UTExan said:Win At Life said:The speaking in tongues in Acts 2 NEEDED NO INTERPRETING. That's actually the exact thing thing made it so notable (besides the visible tongues of fire as well). Whatever Pentecostal thing you are describing that needs interpretation is NOT speaking in tongues according to Acts 2 (Pentecost, that is)UTExan said:Larry Lajitas said:
How often do people speak in tongues during your services?
This is known as praying in the spirit and is not intended for public display but for gatherings of smaller groups of Pentecostal Christians and with a person who has the gift of interpreting tongues. Everything is to be done in order according to Paul's instructions and the gift is to encourage the church. I don't know that you will see this in general services of such churches as Assembly of God but you certainly might. Charismatics in the Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist and other traditions also use this gift. It is a "lesser gift" if you will. Since you are Catholic, you might contact a local charismatic group within your church for better insight.
Then why did Paul write about speaking with the tongues of men or of angels in 1 Corinthians 13?
You also assume that those who speak in tongues speak an unintelligible language. Yet, there are instances of people speaking in languages known to those in audiences. Because you have not witnessed that does not mean that it hasn't happened.
And you know this how? Or is that your private interpretation of scripture?
No, your assertion regarding tongues of angels makes no sense as you have described it. Why would tongues of angels be necessary if it was discourse between humans? Perhaps if you don't understand the phenomenon it is a way to dismiss it without having to deal with its actual existence. BTW, such a gift does not mark the recipient as superior in any way to other Christian. It is a gift to glorify God and encourage the church, despite its abuse by many.
I do disagree with you there given Paul's descriptions of tongues.
No he isn't. 1 Corinthians 14:2 says that he who speaks in an unknown tongue speaks to God (not men) . Your belief is that tongues are only for communication with men but that passage contradicts your assumption.
My wife grew up Pentecostal. I'll give you a description, but this is all second hand.
I will say that for her and many other people that I got to know through her, the experience of speaking in tongues is a very emotional event that creates a feeling of connection with God.
It's like when you just get overwhelmed by something that is beautiful, and just want to say something, but don't know what to say. You just let out a big sigh and let your tongue do what it wants. It feels like a relief. For these people, the experience of speaking in tongues is very real, and a culmination of emotions from a meaningful worship service that provides edification and encouragement. So, I'm not one to judge.
Sometimes I hear funny non-words that are used repeatedly, and it makes me laugh a little at how they kind of sound like people speaking in tongues. I mean, what the heck does hullabaloo caneck caneck mean anyways? Who came up with the word Brewhaha? Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da (Beatles)? Zip-a-dee-doo-dah?
I will say that for her and many other people that I got to know through her, the experience of speaking in tongues is a very emotional event that creates a feeling of connection with God.
It's like when you just get overwhelmed by something that is beautiful, and just want to say something, but don't know what to say. You just let out a big sigh and let your tongue do what it wants. It feels like a relief. For these people, the experience of speaking in tongues is very real, and a culmination of emotions from a meaningful worship service that provides edification and encouragement. So, I'm not one to judge.
Sometimes I hear funny non-words that are used repeatedly, and it makes me laugh a little at how they kind of sound like people speaking in tongues. I mean, what the heck does hullabaloo caneck caneck mean anyways? Who came up with the word Brewhaha? Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da (Beatles)? Zip-a-dee-doo-dah?
UTExan said:Win At Life said:So Paul's description of tongues is different than the tongues spoken in Acts 2? There are TWO speaking in tongues; one that's clearly a miracle and another one that's easily fabricated by people throwing out gibberish? Or is it that speaking in tongues is exactly what Acts 2 describes it to be, the tongues Paul is taking about is just basic human languages that needed interpreting for those not speaking that language and speaking gibberish for God is seen nowhere in the bible?UTExan said:Win At Life said:You're losing me a little bit. Acts 2 was a discourse between humans. And every human heard what was being said by the speaker in their own language as it was being spoken with no need of an interpreter. That's pretty spectacular and I do not dismiss its existence at all. But what language were these humans speaking in that everyone heard what was being said in their own language? Calling that "tongues of Angles" seems pretty fitting.UTExan said:Win At Life said:It's a logical interpretation of words that are written in a way that avoids self-contradictions, which is how we generally interpret any spoken or written language every day.UTExan said:Win At Life said:Tongues of men are men speaking one language at a time just like men like you and me. Tongues of angels are men speaking where anyone in ear-shot can hear them in their own language just as what was described in Acts 2.UTExan said:Win At Life said:The speaking in tongues in Acts 2 NEEDED NO INTERPRETING. That's actually the exact thing thing made it so notable (besides the visible tongues of fire as well). Whatever Pentecostal thing you are describing that needs interpretation is NOT speaking in tongues according to Acts 2 (Pentecost, that is)UTExan said:Larry Lajitas said:
How often do people speak in tongues during your services?
This is known as praying in the spirit and is not intended for public display but for gatherings of smaller groups of Pentecostal Christians and with a person who has the gift of interpreting tongues. Everything is to be done in order according to Paul's instructions and the gift is to encourage the church. I don't know that you will see this in general services of such churches as Assembly of God but you certainly might. Charismatics in the Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist and other traditions also use this gift. It is a "lesser gift" if you will. Since you are Catholic, you might contact a local charismatic group within your church for better insight.
Then why did Paul write about speaking with the tongues of men or of angels in 1 Corinthians 13?
You also assume that those who speak in tongues speak an unintelligible language. Yet, there are instances of people speaking in languages known to those in audiences. Because you have not witnessed that does not mean that it hasn't happened.
And you know this how? Or is that your private interpretation of scripture?
No, your assertion regarding tongues of angels makes no sense as you have described it. Why would tongues of angels be necessary if it was discourse between humans? Perhaps if you don't understand the phenomenon it is a way to dismiss it without having to deal with its actual existence. BTW, such a gift does not mark the recipient as superior in any way to other Christian. It is a gift to glorify God and encourage the church, despite its abuse by many.
I do disagree with you there given Paul's descriptions of tongues.
No he isn't. 1 Corinthians 14:2 says that he who speaks in an unknown tongue speaks to God (not men) . Your belief is that tongues are only for communication with men but that passage contradicts your assumption.
If a guy showed up at your church, took the mic and started giving his testimony in The Parmethian tongue that is unknown to everyone, what men would he be speaking to? Who would be edified by that? Or would only God know what he's saying. That' the problem Paul is addressing in 1 Corinthians 14. I agree with Paul on that.
I believe Christians still speak in tongues as it is a gift listed by Paul from the Holy Spirit. I think it is a wonderful self edifying gift when not abused or faked. And as I have gotten closer to the Lord I sometimes pray silently by myself in what I consider a tongue from the Spirit.
And it is a gift, not a salvific issue. It feels really good when it happens also.
And it is a gift, not a salvific issue. It feels really good when it happens also.
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dermdoc said:
I believe Christians still speak in tongues as it is a gift listed by Paul from the Holy Spirit. I think it is a wonderful self edifying gift when not abused or faked. And as I have gotten closer to the Lord I sometimes pray silently by myself in what I consider a tongue from the Spirit.
And it is a gift, not a salvific issue. It feels really good when it happens also.
That sounds right. That passage in 1 Corinthians 14 speaks of the "mysteries of God" in relation to our speaking in an unknown tongue. That it has been abused for profit does not mean that it is not real. It is a great help as the Spirit within us groans the deepest longings of our soul for the Living God revealed in the Bible.
You mentioned before that Pentecostals are the fastest growing denomination. What are the reasons for that?
Larry Lajitas said:
You mentioned before that Pentecostals are the fastest growing denomination. What are the reasons for that?
I have heard it said before, but Pentecostals tend to brokenness; the experience arises out of need and dramatic conversion. TBH, if life was without crisis, I would be happy in a liturgical tradition and the mystic aspects of orthodoxy are surprisingly close to Pentecostal mysticism. Being certain of a God who personally loves you and is intimately involved with your life is a Pentecostal trait experienced through joyful worship.
Win At Life said:UTExan said:Win At Life said:So Paul's description of tongues is different than the tongues spoken in Acts 2? There are TWO speaking in tongues; one that's clearly a miracle and another one that's easily fabricated by people throwing out gibberish? Or is it that speaking in tongues is exactly what Acts 2 describes it to be, the tongues Paul is taking about is just basic human languages that needed interpreting for those not speaking that language and speaking gibberish for God is seen nowhere in the bible?UTExan said:Win At Life said:You're losing me a little bit. Acts 2 was a discourse between humans. And every human heard what was being said by the speaker in their own language as it was being spoken with no need of an interpreter. That's pretty spectacular and I do not dismiss its existence at all. But what language were these humans speaking in that everyone heard what was being said in their own language? Calling that "tongues of Angles" seems pretty fitting.UTExan said:Win At Life said:It's a logical interpretation of words that are written in a way that avoids self-contradictions, which is how we generally interpret any spoken or written language every day.UTExan said:Win At Life said:Tongues of men are men speaking one language at a time just like men like you and me. Tongues of angels are men speaking where anyone in ear-shot can hear them in their own language just as what was described in Acts 2.UTExan said:Win At Life said:The speaking in tongues in Acts 2 NEEDED NO INTERPRETING. That's actually the exact thing thing made it so notable (besides the visible tongues of fire as well). Whatever Pentecostal thing you are describing that needs interpretation is NOT speaking in tongues according to Acts 2 (Pentecost, that is)UTExan said:Larry Lajitas said:
How often do people speak in tongues during your services?
This is known as praying in the spirit and is not intended for public display but for gatherings of smaller groups of Pentecostal Christians and with a person who has the gift of interpreting tongues. Everything is to be done in order according to Paul's instructions and the gift is to encourage the church. I don't know that you will see this in general services of such churches as Assembly of God but you certainly might. Charismatics in the Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist and other traditions also use this gift. It is a "lesser gift" if you will. Since you are Catholic, you might contact a local charismatic group within your church for better insight.
Then why did Paul write about speaking with the tongues of men or of angels in 1 Corinthians 13?
You also assume that those who speak in tongues speak an unintelligible language. Yet, there are instances of people speaking in languages known to those in audiences. Because you have not witnessed that does not mean that it hasn't happened.
And you know this how? Or is that your private interpretation of scripture?
No, your assertion regarding tongues of angels makes no sense as you have described it. Why would tongues of angels be necessary if it was discourse between humans? Perhaps if you don't understand the phenomenon it is a way to dismiss it without having to deal with its actual existence. BTW, such a gift does not mark the recipient as superior in any way to other Christian. It is a gift to glorify God and encourage the church, despite its abuse by many.
I do disagree with you there given Paul's descriptions of tongues.
No he isn't. 1 Corinthians 14:2 says that he who speaks in an unknown tongue speaks to God (not men) . Your belief is that tongues are only for communication with men but that passage contradicts your assumption.
If a guy showed up at your church, took the mic and started giving his testimony in The Parmethian tongue that is unknown to everyone, what men would he be speaking to? Who would be edified by that? Or would only God know what he's saying. That' the problem Paul is addressing in 1 Corinthians 14. I agree with Paul on that.
That is exactly why Paul addressed the issue by saying that tongues and interpretation should be done in good order, not by having someone grab a mike and address everyone in whatever tongue. But he is very clear in 1 Corinthians 14:2 that tongues are also a communication between man and God.
Larry Lajitas said:
How often do people speak in tongues during your services?
Never
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