Excommunicated for laziness?

1,784 Views | 16 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by dermdoc
Martin Q. Blank
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
1:43p, 5/7/20
2 Thess. 3:6 Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.

14 If anyone does not obey what we say in this letter, take note of that person, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed.
Reply Quote
ramblin_ag02
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
2:19p, 5/7/20
AG
From that same chapter

For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat."

In the modern world with internet, movies, fantastic television, great literature, video games and sports, I can lazy with the best of them. I don't think I could have been lazy in ancient times. It would be so boring. Ancient life was already boring enough. Take away work keeping you busy all day, and it had to be awful.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Reply Quote
1
dermdoc
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to ramblin_ag02 • 2:27p, 5/7/20
AG
Agree.

Some translations use "disorderly" instead of idleness.

I think Paul was making two points here.

First of all, he and his cohorts worked hard and earned their own money to show they were not preaching the Gospel for financial gain.

Secondly, Paul was setting an example of what Christians are to do anticipating the return of Christ. Continue your work whatever your vocation is and do it as if for the Lord. Our purpose here is to do what God has planned for us for His glory. Not to just sit around knowing we are saved and do nothing since we are good to go.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Reply Quote
Martin Q. Blank
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
3:20p, 5/7/20
Yes, obviously people should work and make a living. But excommunication if you're not? "keep away"? "have nothing to do with him"?
Reply Quote
dermdoc
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Martin Q. Blank • 3:47p, 5/7/20
AG
Paul said if you don't work, you don't eat. Which back then was about as harsh as you can get.

And Paul was probably pretty concerned about the integrity of the Early church. Just sitting around holding hands and singing songs would not attract many folks or be sustainable.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Reply Quote
2 edits
ramblin_ag02
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
4:23p, 5/7/20
AG
We live in an agriculture golden age. It's easy to forget that through most of human history the vast majority of labor went into food production, and food scarcity was almost a constant state of being. Only a small percentage of the population could eat without laboring to produce the food, and this was the ruling class or priestly class. Having someone else do your work for you was the basic premise of ruling in the ancient world. So while in modern times eating without working would be considered laziness, in ancient times it would be an arrogant show of privilege. It would basically be saying, "I'm inherently better than you and therefore your labor should support my idleness", which went 100% contrary to the "all men are equal" ethos of Christianity
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Reply Quote
3
diehard03
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
8:09a, 5/8/20
what do think the "tradition you received from us" means?
Reply Quote
Martin Q. Blank
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to diehard03 • 8:41a, 5/8/20
diehard03 said:
what do think the "tradition you received from us" means?
To work hard and earn your own keep. See the first letter:

1 Thess. 2:9 "For you remember, brothers, our labor and toil: we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you"
1 Thess. 4:11-12 "work with your hands... be dependent on no one."
1 Thess. 5:14 "admonish the idle"
Reply Quote
1
Martin Q. Blank
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to dermdoc • 8:42a, 5/8/20
dermdoc said:
Paul said if you don't work, you don't eat. Which back then was about as harsh as you can get.

And Paul was probably pretty concerned about the integrity of the Early church. Just sitting around holding hands and singing songs would not attract many folks or be sustainable.
To the point of kicking them out? Would you do that today for a brother who was lazy and not working in your church?
Reply Quote
dermdoc
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Martin Q. Blank • 10:05a, 5/8/20
AG
I wouldn't. But as you know, I am a softie.

And to dovetail with your verses

1 Timothy 5:8

But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his own family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

And I would wager you that almost all of the "kicking out of church" stuff has been about some kind of sexual "sin". Seems like we as Christians are really hung up on sex.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Reply Quote
1
1 edit
diehard03
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
12:11p, 5/8/20
Quote:
And I would wager you that almost all of the "kicking out of church" stuff has been about some kind of sexual "sin". Seems like we as Christians are really hung up on sex.

Are you saying that when we sin, its more often about sex...or that we disproportionately focus on sexual sins and ignore others?
Reply Quote
dermdoc
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to diehard03 • 12:27p, 5/8/20
AG
Just an anecdotal observation so it is not verified by any data.

In my adult life, the two churches I have been associated with have not been "kick them out" churches. Both are inclusive not exclusive.

We did have a Youth Minister get caught with a teen age female member but he resigned on his own accord. My dad brought me up to let God take care of stuff and do not be judgemental. Wise man who was Deacon chair and held many community elected offices.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Reply Quote
1 edit
diehard03
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
12:42p, 5/8/20
Quote:
Just an anecdotal observation so it is not verified by any data.

I think you're missing my question. Are you referring to "we" as the kicker-outers, or "we" as the sinners?

You comment means 2 different things based on how you answer this.
Reply Quote
dermdoc
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to diehard03 • 12:45p, 5/8/20
AG
diehard03 said:
Quote:
Just an anecdotal observation so it is not verified by any data.

I think you're missing my question. Are you referring to "we" as the kicker-outers, or "we" as the sinners?

You comment means 2 different things based on how you answer this.


The kicker outers. I am a sinner but never been on the other side.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Reply Quote
1
1 edit
diehard03
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
12:56p, 5/8/20
Quote:
The kicker outers. I am a sinner but never been on the other side.

Ah, thanks.

I personally think that sexual sins are disproportionately represented in church discipline topics because they can be more visible (ie, people know your are living with GF/BF) and people are more likely to express their unrepentantness openly.

That said, where I am with you is how churches will be quick to fire staff for sexual issues, but will allow them to mistreat people in other ways for years.
Reply Quote
1
UTExan
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
1:05p, 5/8/20
These are the threads that make me glad I am retired. No more call outs in the middle of the night. No more getting up at 0430 for a 0600 shift. People expect much less of you physically. I almost feel guilty sometimes. Almost.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Reply Quote
1
dermdoc
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to UTExan • 1:23p, 5/8/20
AG
UTExan said:
These are the threads that make me glad I am retired. No more call outs in the middle of the night. No more getting up at 0430 for a 0600 shift. People expect much less of you physically. I almost feel guilty sometimes. Almost.


Amen. After Deacon Chair twice, Personnel Committee chair, two long range planning committees, SS teacher, etc. it is nice going to church at Brazos Fellowship and just worshipping and going home.

No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Reply Quote
1
dermdoc
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to diehard03 • 2:33p, 5/8/20
AG
diehard03 said:
Quote:
The kicker outers. I am a sinner but never been on the other side.

Ah, thanks.

I personally think that sexual sins are disproportionately represented in church discipline topics because they can be more visible (ie, people know your are living with GF/BF) and people are more likely to express their unrepentantness openly.

That said, where I am with you is how churches will be quick to fire staff for sexual issues, but will allow them to mistreat people in other ways for years.


And that is a pet peeve of mine but whatever. I am on no boards anymore.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Reply Quote
Refresh
Page 1 of 1
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.