This is something that was very close to my heart, having grown up in a primarily Hispanic community. She was on bracelets, necklaces, binders, shirts, and car decals. It would be a rare day to not see Her in some form or another. But what do those of y'all who aren't Catholic think about it? Specifically, what do you think about the tilma, and the scientific evidence that supports the fact that it is a divine miracle?

WaltonAg18 said:

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This is something that was very close to my heart, having grown up in a primarily Hispanic community. She was on bracelets, necklaces, binders, shirts, and car decals. It would be a rare day to not see Her in some form or another. But what do those of y'all who aren't Catholic think about it? Specifically, what do you think about the tilma, and the scientific evidence that supports the fact that it is a divine miracle?

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Always been fascinated with the account. I just read a book about Maria of Agreda who reportedly bilocated to the Jumano Indians of Texas, New Mexico and Arizona in order to preach the gospel. It was most fascinating how she escaped the clutches of the Spanish Inquisition as such a public faith figure.

Would you mind sharing the title of the book? I heard about her on a podcast (I think it was Taylor Marshall) and would like to add this to my reading list.

WaltonAg18 said:

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This is something that was very close to my heart, having grown up in a primarily Hispanic community. She was on bracelets, necklaces, binders, shirts, and car decals. It would be a rare day to not see Her in some form or another. But what do those of y'all who aren't Catholic think about it? Specifically, what do you think about the tilma, and the scientific evidence that supports the fact that it is a divine miracle?

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Not catholic, I really haven't ever thought about it. I'm skeptical but I haven't reviewed the stories or facts.

RebelE Infantry said:

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Would you mind sharing the title of the book? I heard about her on a podcast (I think it was Taylor Marshall) and would like to add this to my reading list.

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Maria of Agreda: Lady in Blue by Marilyn H. Fedewa
Pub. 2009 University of New Mexico Press

Honestly... nothing. There was no miracle, it was a story concocted to convince the Indians to believe in Roman Catholicism.

Then how do you explain the scientists that have analyzed it and come up with no explanations, including one who earned a Nobel Prize for chemistry? They couldn't identify the pigments on the tilma. There isn't a coating on it that would allow painting on the agave fibers. It hasn't aged in the hundreds of years it's been around. It survived a nitric acid attack, as well as a dynamite explosion directly next to it that warped a metal cross. Yet it remains unscathed.

Texas Monthly has an article on this. One of the Catholic scientists analyzed the material it was painted on and concluded that it was hemp, which is durable and was the "canvas" of choice in the mid 16th century. He also said that spectogfaphic images showed two paintings below this one. Also, the paint is flaking at a fold.

Around the time the miracle was supposed to have happened, it was referred to as the painting done by an Aztec artist named Marco. One priest writes that it was done by that artist "yesteryear." A couple of other priests decried the fact that it was being used to convert the Aztecs, calling it idolatry.

I find it odd that if it was miraculously created, why did people add and remove items from the painting?

Never heard of it. What is it?

bpchas2 said:

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Texas Monthly has an article on this. One of the Catholic scientists analyzed the material it was painted on and concluded that it was hemp, which is durable and was the "canvas" of choice in the mid 16th century. He also said that spectogfaphic images showed two paintings below this one. Also, the paint is flaking at a fold.

Around the time the miracle was supposed to have happened, it was referred to as the painting done by an Aztec artist named Marco. One priest writes that it was done by that artist "yesteryear." A couple of other priests decried the fact that it was being used to convert the Aztecs, calling it idolatry.

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Hemp wouldn't have been available to the poor farmers of the area.
There isn't anything underneath it, as you can see through the canvas. There aren't any sections of paint flaking, as it would be impossible to paint without a bottom coating.

There are no brush strokes, even with analyzing it using the same technology NASA uses to process images from telescopes.

The stars on her robe line up exactly with the way the stars would have been positioned on that day, including the proper phase of the moon. Well, almost exactly. They are flipped as though they're being viewed from the heavens.

This is quite a long documentary, but it addresses things I've mentioned here and further. It is truly astounding what the modern miracles of science have been able to uncover and still have unexplained. The first half of the video primarily talks about the various types of analyses that have been done.

I haven't watched the video you posted but Wikipedia shows that there have been four technical analysis of the tilma with the last in 1982. I would love to see what today's technology has to say.

FYI, Iooked up "tilma," and it is a type of cloak.

Please forgive me for not knowing this. In my defense, when I googled "tilma," all I got were stories about Tilman Fertitta.

No of course! There's nothing wrong with not having heard of it. I didn't know the depth of the story up until the past few years. I appreciate you taking the time to read this.