Veritas God and/or Evolution Event at Rudder Thursday(2/20) 7pm

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DD88
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https://www.eventbrite.com/e/veritas-2020-god-andor-evolution-tickets-84561887883



Dr. Michael Behe and Dr. Joshua Swamidass will be in conversation about evolution, intelligent design, and which way the evidence points.

Quote:

The scientific community seeks to give an account of the world around us in terms of mathematical laws and natural processes; this description even extends to the account of biological life's origin and evolution. For Christians, this consensus has posed a number of challenges. Does evolution account for biological life? Was God involved in evolution? How? Is there evidence to tell us one way or another? We are happy to host a spirited discussion between Dr. Michael Behe (Lehigh University), one of the leading Intelligent Design advocates in the world, and Dr. Joshua Swamidass (Washington University at St. Louis), one of the rising stars at the intersection of faith and science. The Veritas Forum at Texas A&M is an occasion for students of all faiths and no faiths to come together and examine the big-picture questions of life.

Before the Debate: We will be hosting a brown bag lunch discussion with Dr. Swamidass about his new book The Genealogical Adam & Eve which aims to show a literal Adam & Eve is compatible with evolutionary theory. 12:00pm in MSC 2300B (Bethancourt)

After the Debate: We will be hosting a Discussion Room to talk about the debate. Dr. Behe will be answering questions. 9:00pm in Rudder Tower 601.

About the Speakers
Dr. S Joshua Swamidass
S. Joshua Swamidass (MD, PhD, UCIrvine) is a scientist, physician, and associate professor of laboratory and genomic medicine at Washington University in Saint Louis, where he uses artificial intelligence to explore science at the intersection of medicine, biology, and chemistry. He is a Veritas Forums speaker and blogs at Peaceful Science (peacefulscience.org)

Dr. Michael J. Behe
Michael J. Behe is Professor of Biological Sciences at Lehigh University in Pennsylvania and a Senior Fellow at Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture. He received his Ph.D. in Biochemistry from the University of Pennsylvania in 1978. Behe's current research involves delineation of design and natural selection in protein structures.


I won't be in College Station on Thursday, but maybe someone who is interested can give a report.
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P.C. Principal
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Dang, I'm actually going to be in CS this weekend. Would have loved to go to this.
schmendeler
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this seems to be a debate between two ID people?
one MEEN Ag
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schmendeler said:

this seems to be a debate between two ID people?
Seems to be a more nuanced presentation of the intersection of science and faith and the questions it raises. Your normal 'atheist vs Christian' debates on a college campus is an hour full of entrenched opinions, hot takes and political point scoring. Common derails to include some combination of the words, 'the crusades','sexual abuse in the church', 'sheeple', and 'teacups in space.'

This should be more interesting to see what they have to say.
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schmendeler
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AstroAg17 said:

schmendeler said:

this seems to be a debate between two ID people?
I was reading about the parent organization a bit, and there's a fair amount of disagreement among the pseudoscientific community. For example, one ID proponent was nearly fired from his "university" for insinuating there was no evidence there was a flood. He's an old earth guy but there's still a spectrum there. It seems entirely reasonable that two different ID proponents could disagree and have a debate. For example, they could debate about whether the designer can be positively ID'd as the Christian God.
Ah. So they get to pretend that their base myth is established and the only thing up for debate is their particular flavor of the legend.
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schmendeler
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AstroAg17 said:

It's a win for them to pretend that there is any sort of debate at all about evolution.
TeaCh tHe cOntrVErsy!!
DD88
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schmendeler said:

AstroAg17 said:

It's a win for them to pretend that there is any sort of debate at all about evolution.
TeaCh tHe cOntrVErsy!!
I was just waiting for anyone to show any credible path to abiogenesis.

Where's the scorecard?

We can make some of the amino acids from scratch (if we isolate them from oxidation)

There's no real path to forming even a small protein, much less a living cell that can replicate.
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DD88
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AstroAg17 said:

Yeah science is hard and we're not positive what happened. We only have a basic idea.
Actually, you're nowhere close.
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schmendeler
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DD88 said:

schmendeler said:

AstroAg17 said:

It's a win for them to pretend that there is any sort of debate at all about evolution.
TeaCh tHe cOntrVErsy!!
I was just waiting for anyone to show any credible path to abiogenesis.

Where's the scorecard?

We can make some of the amino acids from scratch (if we isolate them from oxidation)

There's no real path to forming even a small protein, much less a living cell that can replicate.


Abiogenesis isn't the same as evolution.
DD88
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Demonstration of evolution has been pretty disappointing so far as well, other than some fruit flies that can no longer breed with previous fruit flies. That sounds like a disadvantage, not an improvement.
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DD88
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Feel free to provide some evidence.
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DD88
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I have looked and don't see the evidence of the genetic changes necessary to produce new species and the mechanism for producing more complexity is insufficient.

The more you actually look into this, the more you realize that scientists don't really know.

Are you willing to admit this?
Aggrad08
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DD88 said:

I have looked and don't see the evidence of the genetic changes necessary to produce new species and the mechanism for producing more complexity is insufficient.

The more you actually looks into this, the more you realize that scientists don't really know.
Are you willing to admit this?


Virtually no one familiar with the subject tries to argue this point. Speciation has been observed in the laboratory and in nature. We can follow it in DNA, hell we can even see where the human chromosome #2 merged from our ape ancestors.
dermdoc
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AstroAg17 said:

Take a science class; I'm not here to replace google, and there's no specific topic that relates to evolution that I'm aching to discuss. I like talking genetics, but I'm not interested in writing a review paper when so many good ones already exist.

I can post links, and I will if you like, but the evidence for evolution is not a secret and I'd merely be directing you to it. I hold the consensus opinion with no deviation, because I am not a PhD biologist and I'm not an expert on evolution.

You could fill textbooks with the evidence for evolution. People have. I have some on my shelf. Buy one and read it.
No need to be arrogant as I am sure everyone on here has taken a science class. I believe in evolution and love science. I think that is how God works. And I have read a lot of evolution literature and done a at least a little science in my almost 65 years. Science can not explain everything. Never has, never will. And a fundamentalist scientist is at least as annoying as a fundamentalist religionist. There are unexplainable things. Like Creation. Like love. And if you deny those things I actually do not know what to say,
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Aggrad08
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There are things science has yet to explain, things it cannot explain and things it already has explained. Evolution denial and YEC are flat earth beliefs. They are built on demonstrable falsehood.
dermdoc
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Aggrad08 said:

There are things science has yet to explain, things it cannot explain and things it already has explained. Evolution denial and YEC are flat earth beliefs. They are built on demonstrable falsehood.
I said I believe in evolution. There is no difference between science fundamentalism and religious fundamentalism.
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Aggrad08
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What exactly is science fundamentalism?
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Frok
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So is anyone going? Will it be available on stream or will a video of it be posted?

I'm interested, even if I get called a crazy religious fundamentalist because of it.
dermdoc
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I am an old curmudgeon and "tones" do not bother me. And fwiw, I enjoy your posts and have a good opinion of you.

I made up the term "science fundamentalist" to describe folks who worship science and think it explains everything when it does not. Have been involved with science over forty years and exposed to some of the most brilliant anti religion science fundamentalists and yet none can answer the simple question of what started Creation.

To me they are no different than the strain of religious fundamentalists who are so bound by their lack of faith that everything has to be exactly so are you are wrong and damned to hell.

One group has made science their idol and the other has made man made religion theirs. Christianity is not a religion, it is a relationship with God mediated by Christ and anointing its believers with the Holy Spirit. It is about a complete change of life, a change of focus and a constant renewing of the mind. It is the Way. It is a change from focusing on this temporal life and a focus on eternal life.You give up everything and in doing so gain everything. I am convinced it is the best way to have the most abundant life.

And it is a journey, not a binary event. God is changing me as I age.
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Frok
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I think it's called "scientism" or at least that is what I've seen it referred to. The belief that science can explain everything.

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schmendeler
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AstroAg17 said:

Frok said:

I think it's called "scientism" or at least that is what I've seen it referred to. The belief that science can explain everything.


What does scientism have to do with this thread?

I've never met someone who believes that.
I was wondering the same.
dermdoc
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AstroAg17 said:

Frok said:

I think it's called "scientism" or at least that is what I've seen it referred to. The belief that science can explain everything.


What does scientism have to do with this thread?

I've never met someone who believes that.


Maybe I am thinking of those I have met that are so anti God that they will not even entertain the notion of intelligent design. To me, that is no different than religious fundamentalist who are so anti science that they can not even consider the possibility that evolution was how God did things.

To me, both sides are blinded by their stubbornness.
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dermdoc
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schmendeler said:

AstroAg17 said:

Frok said:

I think it's called "scientism" or at least that is what I've seen it referred to. The belief that science can explain everything.


What does scientism have to do with this thread?

I've never met someone who believes that.
I was wondering the same.


I think that this is is the bottom line reason for this discussion. Sure there are open minded folks who can entertain both sides, but the discussion seems to be driven by the extremes, as discussions usually are.

Maybe it is just me.
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