Divorce rate

7,910 Views | 121 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by ramblin_ag02
Martin Q. Blank
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https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2014/may/divorce-shocker-most-marriages-do-make-it

Two divorce myths: the divorce rate is 50% and there is no difference between Christians and the rest of society.
Quote:

Most people believe only half of US marriages make it. But a leading researcher is announcing the true divorce rate is much lower and always has been.
Quote:

"First-time marriages: probably 20 to 25 percent have ended in divorce on average," Feldhahn revealed.
Quote:

Shaunti and Jeff point out the 50 percent figure came from projections of what researchers thought the divorce rate would become as they watched the divorce numbers rising in the 1970s and early 1980s when states around the nation were passing no-fault divorce laws.
Quote:

The Good News About Marriage also reveals the divorce rate among those active in their church is 27 to 50 percent lower than among non-churchgoers.
diehard03
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Quote:

Two divorce myths: the divorce rate is 50% and there is no difference between Christians and the rest of society.

This is mostly promoted by pastors who already wrote 90% of their sermons and are still working on their openers.
Zobel
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AG
Seems like this would be a fairly easy thing to determine factually. Number of divorce certificates divided by marriage certificates. I would be surprised if for thirty years no one thought of this.
Zobel
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AG
Interesting. Basically it's a big statistical mess.

https://www.fatherly.com/love-money/what-is-divorce-rate-america/
diehard03
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Quote:

Interesting. Basically it's a big statistical mess.

I'm surprised people think it's not. People divorce for different reasons at 1 year, 15 years, 30 years...and there's not really a way to determine at 15 years whether you'll divorce at 30 years. It's pretty nonsensical to bundle all those together to determine if there's a divorce issue or not.
Cassius
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If you believe the rate is 20-25%, I have some ocean front property to sell you.

I think it's higher than 50%, and that's for first time marriages only.

But you have to buy this guy's book to know where he got his numbers and I don't plan on doing that.
P.C. Principal
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One thing the millennial generation is doing right is waiting longer until getting married. I'm a firm believer that rushing into marriage at a young age because of pressure from family or society or what have you significantly increases the likelihood of divorce years down the road. Date your SO for a longer time and really really get to know them so you are 100% sure you want to spend the rest of your life with them.

Being more selective about marriage = lower divorce rates.
diehard03
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Quote:

If you believe the rate is 20-25%, I have some ocean front property to sell you.

I think it's higher than 50%, and that's for first time marriages only.

it depends on what you're talking about. I would agree that the probability that ANY marriage avoiding divorce is above 50%...but that's only because the only other option is death. We also have no idea the impact on the trend of waiting longer to marry because those couples aren't 95 yet. It could very well be well below 50% for anyone getting married for the first time now.
diehard03
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Quote:

One thing the millennial generation is doing right is waiting longer until getting married. I'm a firm believer that rushing into marriage at a young age because of pressure from family or society or what have you significantly increases the likelihood of divorce years down the road. Date your SO for a longer time and really really get to know them so you are 100% sure you want to spend the rest of your life with them.

Being more selective about marriage = lower divorce rates.

I don't think it has anything to do with dating your SO longer and everything to do with the maturity level of the person being that little bit older.

You also plateau in relationships are different life phases. 5 years of dating from 18-23 isn't the same as 5 years of dating from 23-28. Sometimes time is just time and there's no development or growth.
Cassius
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P.C. Principal said:

One thing the millennial generation is doing right is waiting longer until getting married. I'm a firm believer that rushing into marriage at a young age because of pressure from family or society or what have you significantly increases the likelihood of divorce years down the road. Date your SO for a longer time and really really get to know them so you are 100% sure you want to spend the rest of your life with them.

Being more selective about marriage = lower divorce rates.


Now you raise a good point...

The divorce rate would be much higher if folks were not shacking up, either explicitly or passively, and were getting married instead like older generations.

Those breakups are not counted.
Frok
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AG
Cassius said:

If you believe the rate is 20-25%, I have some ocean front property to sell you.

I think it's higher than 50%, and that's for first time marriages only.

But you have to buy this guy's book to know where he got his numbers and I don't plan on doing that.



What makes you think it is higher than 50%?

If I simply look at my friends and family around me it seems like the 20% number is more accurate than the 50% number. But that is just my circle of friends.
diehard03
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Quote:

If I simply look at my friends and family around me it seems like the 20% number is more accurate than the 50% number. But that is just my circle of friends.

Whats the average marriage duration of your friends?
Frok
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AG
diehard03 said:

Quote:

If I simply look at my friends and family around me it seems like the 20% number is more accurate than the 50% number. But that is just my circle of friends.

Whats the average marriage duration of your friends?


No clue. The ones that ended were mostly within the first 5 years.

Never thought about that before but the stats really are difficult to assess. I've been married for 12 years, so I fit in the non-divorced group. But of course that could change anytime before me or my wife pass away.

It won't though because my wife ain't ever getting rid of me.
P.C. Principal
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diehard03 said:

Quote:

One thing the millennial generation is doing right is waiting longer until getting married. I'm a firm believer that rushing into marriage at a young age because of pressure from family or society or what have you significantly increases the likelihood of divorce years down the road. Date your SO for a longer time and really really get to know them so you are 100% sure you want to spend the rest of your life with them.

Being more selective about marriage = lower divorce rates.

I don't think it has anything to do with dating your SO longer and everything to do with the maturity level of the person being that little bit older.

You also plateau in relationships are different life phases. 5 years of dating from 18-23 isn't the same as 5 years of dating from 23-28. Sometimes time is just time and there's no development or growth.
Yeah, maturity is huge. 28 y/o me is night and day different from 23 y/o me.

I think in addition to this, lots of these younger people getting married after a short time dating also get pregnant pretty quickly, sometimes before they are financially stable. By the time the baby comes and you're working to maintain a good job, you may have to move back close to your parents and make some sacrifices, and things feel completely different than when you were two 18 y/os fresh out of high school on cloud nine and in love. I think some couples (not all) have a really rough adjustment period from the younger days and the marriage is on the rocks after that.
diehard03
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Quote:

No clue.

You have some idea, right? Are your friends age 30s or 70s?

I only bring up to say that if most of your friends are like sub-15 years of marriage, then you should expect them to be in tact. That's what the data shows. However, the longer you go, the more will divorce...as is logical.
diehard03
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Quote:

I think in addition to this, lots of these younger people getting married after a short time dating also get pregnant pretty quickly, sometimes before they are financially stable. By the time the baby comes and you're working to maintain a good job, you may have to move back close to your parents and make some sacrifices, and things feel completely different than when you were two 18 y/os fresh out of high school on cloud nine and in love. I think some couples (not all) have a really rough adjustment period from the younger days and the marriage is on the rocks after that.

I think affects certain socio-economic statuses and isn't the norm across others.
amercer
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AG
It's interesting because i would have never thought this to be a difficult thing to calculate. After 5 minutes of looking, I now see why it is.

Anyway, statistics:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce_in_the_United_States
Woody2006
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AG
Divorce sucked, but it was WAAAAAAAAAAAY better than the alternative.
Zobel
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AG
A happy marriage?
bmks270
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AG
Divorce rates I suspect are higher among 2nd or greater marriages. My hypothesis is that second marriages are more likely to end in divorce than the first. Are their stats on this?
diehard03
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Yes, and easily accessed via google. it's much much worse for 2nd marriages and beyond...but this is a function of a limited pool and serial "marriers" driving the numbers.
chimpanzee
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Everyone's situation is going to be different. The big trends and data may show something of a broader theme, but in something so personal as a marriage, it's not going to tell any one person or couple much.

Case in point: I've got a little bit of everything in one couple. My parents (in their first marriage(s), that I know of, ) were married in their early 20's for ~11 years when they divorced; both remarried and divorced two more times before remarrying each other again later in life. Turns out they still hated each other and divorced yet again; they clearly don't have their sh_t together in this department.

Longest duration was ~20 years, with my dad's third wife and ~15 years with my mom's second husband. Shortest duration was the remarriage when they were both pushing 70, that lasted about a year.

So that's like six marriages and six divorces right there depending on how you count. Folks like them are jerking the curve all over the place. It would take another six "until death did them part" couples to just balance them out and get to 50% on average, so I can see how the number could be true, but for any one marriage, pretty meaningless.
P.C. Principal
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Woody2006 said:

Divorce sucked, but it was WAAAAAAAAAAAY better than the alternative.
Sounds like this is the truth for sure.

I really, REALLY hope I never get divorced. I'm going to be insanely careful about who I marry. But if it turns out to be a hopelessly unhappy marriage I won't hesitate to divorce, and if that happens, I will not remarry. I am getting married ONCE (if at all). If it doesn't work out, hello permanent bachelor-dom.
diehard03
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Quote:

I really, REALLY hope I never get divorced. I'm going to be insanely careful about who I marry. But if it turns out to be a hopelessly unhappy marriage I won't hesitate to divorce, and if that happens, I will not remarry. I am getting married ONCE (if at all). If it doesn't work out, hello permanent bachelor-dom.

I am only 10 years in, but based on my and other's marriages, I can tell you the following is true:

1) There isn't a process/selection criteria which enables you to find the "right one". You have to do the hard work.
2) There is no right one.
3) Everyone feels like they are in an unhappy marriage at some point in their marriage. You have to do the hard work.
4) It gets better
5) You can always wake up and learn that your spouse is a horrible person that hates you. Or that you're a horrible person and hate them.
6) It may not get better.
7) Life really sucks when you try to do it alone and this alone is worth trying marriage.
8) You can want to do the hard work and your partner may not. There's nothing you can do about this.
9) If you both choose to do the hard work, you will be fine. It won't be pretty. It won't be a Hallmark movie. But you will be fine.

edit: Do not fear divorce. Fear missing out on an amazing life with someone.
dermdoc
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AG
As someone who has been very happily married for 32 years I love your last sentence.
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P.C. Principal
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diehard03 said:

Quote:

I really, REALLY hope I never get divorced. I'm going to be insanely careful about who I marry. But if it turns out to be a hopelessly unhappy marriage I won't hesitate to divorce, and if that happens, I will not remarry. I am getting married ONCE (if at all). If it doesn't work out, hello permanent bachelor-dom.

I am only 10 years in, but based on my and other's marriages, I can tell you the following is true:

1) There isn't a process/selection criteria which enables you to find the "right one". You have to do the hard work.
2) There is no right one.
3) Everyone feels like they are in an unhappy marriage at some point in their marriage. You have to do the hard work.
4) It gets better
5) You can always wake up and learn that your spouse is a horrible person that hates you. Or that you're a horrible person and hate them.
6) It may not get better.
7) Life really sucks when you try to do it alone and this alone is worth trying marriage.
8) You can want to do the hard work and your partner may not. There's nothing you can do about this.
9) If you both choose to do the hard work, you will be fine. It won't be pretty. It won't be a Hallmark movie. But you will be fine.

edit: Do not fear divorce. Fear missing out on an amazing life with someone.
This was strangely depressing but also encouraging. My feelings come from the fact that my biggest fear in life (yes, biggest. more than death or death of a loved one) is being married to someone who I realize I don't love. There is no feeling more lonely than being with someone who makes you feel alone. I know this is a very sad and cynical thing to say, but it's how I feel.

Thank you. I hope to share your optimism someday.
Serotonin
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AG
Great post.
Serotonin
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AG
To add onto that post I'll link k2's post on marriage, which is excellent:
https://texags.com/forums/15/topics/2946007/1
Quote:

There's some really good advice in here. One thing I would like to add, just as food for thought. Americans are all about pleasure - we even enshrined it in our declaration of independence, except we called it "happiness." Culturally for us this is our measuring stick for everything. My neighbor explained to me why she divorced her husband (with a five and three year old at home) as simply "I just wasn't happy." For most folks, this is reason enough. As a Christian, I think this is a very wrong way to look at things.

As Christians, we aren't here to be happy.

At least not the way most people think of that, anyway. Happiness is based on pleasure, it's based on temporary states of having things, or feeling things. It can't be maintained indefinitely, because even if you have all the money and power in the world, someday you'll die. Pleasure is not the purpose of our life. This was and is what non-Christian philosophy pursues - maximum pleasure, maximum happiness.

As Christians, were are here to be holy.

That doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't be happy, it just means we have to put pleasure in its appropriate context. And the Scriptures tell us two things: one, that this is where true Joy is to be found, when we replace the temporary pleasure from emotions and feelgoodery and "stuff" with the eternal hope offered by divine things; and two, that even if we don't, everything is meaningless anyway. Trying to find happiness is impossible, because in the end it's all meaningless. The best you can do is to be satisfied with what you've got, a kind of scriptural "managing expectations" approach.

Christian marriage is a path to holiness, not (primarily) happiness. Armed with this knowledge, an outside observer can perhaps think about both you and your wife's primary complaints. Not enough sex? Is getting more sex an appetite for holiness or happiness? How can you examine the root of this frustration and desire? It's not bad or wrong, but is it what you need from your marriage to pursue God? If you got as much as you want would you be pursuing holiness? Or just maybe happier (for now)? Are there ways you can focus on holiness as a husband - both for yours and hers?

Not helping enough? For her - just food for thought - is your help for her about her holiness or happiness? If this was fixed and she had no chores to do, would this be a path of holiness? Can she view this work as a path for holiness?

Every wrong we feel in life is a blessing, it is an opportunity for us to forgive someone and in so doing obey the divine commandment, and gain forgiveness for ourselves. Even more fun, God knows we're not very good at this so He even tells us (maybe with a bit of a wink) that this will upset our enemies even more than if we got mad. Every time you get shot down in the bedroom is an opportunity to love your wife. Every time you leave a dish out or forget to put your clothes away is an opportunity for her to perform an act of love and forgiveness. It is both an incredibly challenging way to look at things, but also incredibly powerful.

Think about this - if we can't extend this most basic of Christian charity to the person we are supposed to love like our own bodies, the person we want to love like our own body, how can we do it for strangers, for our neighbor? Yet this is exactly what we're supposed to do. Marriage is just our training ground to love others. God gives us the easy one first. Giving your life up for your wife is easy compared to giving your life up for a stranger, a person who hates you.

As husband and wife you're there to help each other in life, and as a Christian our life is to become holy, made like Christ. I think only in this sense can satisfaction in a marriage be found.
As you move along in life and marriage it seems that the chances for conflict increase. As you age the pressures increase: increased responsibility at work, having and raising children, figuring out more complicated routines, caring for elderly parents, potentially upsizing home and changing neighborhoods, trying to save for retirement, career paths, etc.

Then, near the end, you realize that all of these things that you argued and screamed about, lost sleep over, got angry about, went to counseling over, etc. really don't matter. It all fades away.

Did you grow in holiness? Did you help your spouse and children grow in holiness? If you did that then you had a good life, no matter what your house or bank account looks like.
A New Hope
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bmks270 said:

Divorce rates I suspect are higher among 2nd or greater marriages. My hypothesis is that second marriages are more likely to end in divorce than the first. Are their stats on this?
I'd bet the reason the divorce rate is higher is because once they've been divorced, they're not as concerned about the outcome or process. Been thru it, survived, next spouse, next divorce.
dermdoc
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AG
Gator03 said:

To add onto that post I'll link k2's post on marriage, which is excellent:
https://texags.com/forums/15/topics/2946007/1
Quote:

There's some really good advice in here. One thing I would like to add, just as food for thought. Americans are all about pleasure - we even enshrined it in our declaration of independence, except we called it "happiness." Culturally for us this is our measuring stick for everything. My neighbor explained to me why she divorced her husband (with a five and three year old at home) as simply "I just wasn't happy." For most folks, this is reason enough. As a Christian, I think this is a very wrong way to look at things.

As Christians, we aren't here to be happy.

At least not the way most people think of that, anyway. Happiness is based on pleasure, it's based on temporary states of having things, or feeling things. It can't be maintained indefinitely, because even if you have all the money and power in the world, someday you'll die. Pleasure is not the purpose of our life. This was and is what non-Christian philosophy pursues - maximum pleasure, maximum happiness.

As Christians, were are here to be holy.

That doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't be happy, it just means we have to put pleasure in its appropriate context. And the Scriptures tell us two things: one, that this is where true Joy is to be found, when we replace the temporary pleasure from emotions and feelgoodery and "stuff" with the eternal hope offered by divine things; and two, that even if we don't, everything is meaningless anyway. Trying to find happiness is impossible, because in the end it's all meaningless. The best you can do is to be satisfied with what you've got, a kind of scriptural "managing expectations" approach.

Christian marriage is a path to holiness, not (primarily) happiness. Armed with this knowledge, an outside observer can perhaps think about both you and your wife's primary complaints. Not enough sex? Is getting more sex an appetite for holiness or happiness? How can you examine the root of this frustration and desire? It's not bad or wrong, but is it what you need from your marriage to pursue God? If you got as much as you want would you be pursuing holiness? Or just maybe happier (for now)? Are there ways you can focus on holiness as a husband - both for yours and hers?

Not helping enough? For her - just food for thought - is your help for her about her holiness or happiness? If this was fixed and she had no chores to do, would this be a path of holiness? Can she view this work as a path for holiness?

Every wrong we feel in life is a blessing, it is an opportunity for us to forgive someone and in so doing obey the divine commandment, and gain forgiveness for ourselves. Even more fun, God knows we're not very good at this so He even tells us (maybe with a bit of a wink) that this will upset our enemies even more than if we got mad. Every time you get shot down in the bedroom is an opportunity to love your wife. Every time you leave a dish out or forget to put your clothes away is an opportunity for her to perform an act of love and forgiveness. It is both an incredibly challenging way to look at things, but also incredibly powerful.

Think about this - if we can't extend this most basic of Christian charity to the person we are supposed to love like our own bodies, the person we want to love like our own body, how can we do it for strangers, for our neighbor? Yet this is exactly what we're supposed to do. Marriage is just our training ground to love others. God gives us the easy one first. Giving your life up for your wife is easy compared to giving your life up for a stranger, a person who hates you.

As husband and wife you're there to help each other in life, and as a Christian our life is to become holy, made like Christ. I think only in this sense can satisfaction in a marriage be found.
As you move along in life and marriage it seems that the chances for conflict increase. As you age the pressures increase: increased responsibility at work, having and raising children, figuring out more complicated routines, caring for elderly parents, potentially upsizing home and changing neighborhoods, trying to save for retirement, career paths, etc.

Then, near the end, you realize that all of these things that you argued and screamed about, lost sleep over, got angry about, went to counseling over, etc. really don't matter. It all fades away.

Did you grow in holiness? Did you help your spouse and children grow in holiness? If you did that then you had a good life, no matter what your house or bank account looks like.
Great stuff. And if you both always focus on God, I find it becomes much easier to be a better husband, father, etc.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
diehard03
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Quote:

I'd bet the reason the divorce rate is higher is because once they've been divorced, they're not as concerned about the outcome or process. Been thru it, survived, next spouse, next divorce.

I don't think anyone is really thinking "eh, losing half my stuff wasn't so bad the first time...". Maybe you are right in that they protect assets better and this is less of an issue.

But, mainly I think it's worse because people don't own their issues in their first marriage and bring that into the 2nd one. There's no longer healthy people offsetting their numbers...so it spikes.
cavscout96
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AG
diehard03 said:

Yes, and easily accessed via google. it's much much worse for 2nd marriages and beyond...but this is a function of a limited pool and serial "marriers" driving the numbers.
I have a relative who was married SEVEN times

#1
#2
#1 (again)
#2 (again)
#3 (marriage 5)
#4 (marriage 6)
#5 (marriage 7)

All ended in divorce. thankfully, only 2 kids with #1 (marriages 1 and 3).

Seriously?
cavscout96
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AG
diehard03 said:

Quote:

I really, REALLY hope I never get divorced. I'm going to be insanely careful about who I marry. But if it turns out to be a hopelessly unhappy marriage I won't hesitate to divorce, and if that happens, I will not remarry. I am getting married ONCE (if at all). If it doesn't work out, hello permanent bachelor-dom.

I am only 10 years in, but based on my and other's marriages, I can tell you the following is true:

1) There isn't a process/selection criteria which enables you to find the "right one". You have to do the hard work.
2) There is no right one.
3) Everyone feels like they are in an unhappy marriage at some point in their marriage. You have to do the hard work.
4) It gets better
5) You can always wake up and learn that your spouse is a horrible person that hates you. Or that you're a horrible person and hate them.
6) It may not get better.
7) Life really sucks when you try to do it alone and this alone is worth trying marriage.
8) You can want to do the hard work and your partner may not. There's nothing you can do about this.
9) If you both choose to do the hard work, you will be fine. It won't be pretty. It won't be a Hallmark movie. But you will be fine.

edit: Do not fear divorce. Fear missing out on an amazing life with someone.
Staying married (growing and maturing a relationship) is WAY harder than finding someone you THINK is THE one.

The hard work happens long after the "I do's"

P.C. Principal
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cavscout96 said:

diehard03 said:

Quote:

I really, REALLY hope I never get divorced. I'm going to be insanely careful about who I marry. But if it turns out to be a hopelessly unhappy marriage I won't hesitate to divorce, and if that happens, I will not remarry. I am getting married ONCE (if at all). If it doesn't work out, hello permanent bachelor-dom.

I am only 10 years in, but based on my and other's marriages, I can tell you the following is true:

1) There isn't a process/selection criteria which enables you to find the "right one". You have to do the hard work.
2) There is no right one.
3) Everyone feels like they are in an unhappy marriage at some point in their marriage. You have to do the hard work.
4) It gets better
5) You can always wake up and learn that your spouse is a horrible person that hates you. Or that you're a horrible person and hate them.
6) It may not get better.
7) Life really sucks when you try to do it alone and this alone is worth trying marriage.
8) You can want to do the hard work and your partner may not. There's nothing you can do about this.
9) If you both choose to do the hard work, you will be fine. It won't be pretty. It won't be a Hallmark movie. But you will be fine.

edit: Do not fear divorce. Fear missing out on an amazing life with someone.
Staying married (growing and maturing a relationship) is WAY harder than finding someone you THINK is THE one.

The hard work happens long after the "I do's"


I know this sounds really cynical, but married people have done a really poor job selling marriage like it's something to be desired. People are so damn negative about marriage and I hear way fewer positives about it.

"Marriage is the hardest thing I've ever done" and "marriage is so hard and at times I can't stand my partner, but I love him/her" are lines I hear ALL THE TIME. Are these people happy? Serious question.

And then all the tasteless jokes about marriage sucking. Husbands joking about how they never have sex ever, Calling their wife a "ball and chain", saying gay marriage should be legal because they deserve to be as miserable as the rest of us, telling young people to stay single as long as you can and enjoy your single days because you'll really appreciate them when you're married. I don't imagine these people have happy marriages, and they should probably get divorced TBH.

Oh! and bachelor/ette parties! Those are fun. But some people have this mentality toward them like they're your one last night of singledom and fun before being shackled to some hag for the rest of your life and you'll never have sex again. So, let's go get blackout drunk and touch a bunch of boobs at a strip club so you can appreciate that one last night of freedom! What an incredibly negative tone you set for your marriage. If/when I get married, I'm not having a bachelor party like this. I'd rather go to a concert or something.

Falling in love is great. Getting married and having a very happy wedding day sounds great. But from everything I've heard from married people since I've been an adult , marriage sounds miserable for so many people. I think monogamy isn't for everyone honestly. These people joking about how awful marriage is should probably be swingers or something. I'm not joking. Either that, or they've realized they don't love their spouse and they settled with someone "who will have to do" because they feared being alone forever.
Quad Dog
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AG
Here's some positivity:
It's been 15 years and I love being married. I'd have no idea how or even want to be single. She sees an amazing man when she looks at me, and it makes me want to try and be that man everyday. We are a team. It's us against the world. We pick each other up, help each other out. One of my favorite things is silently reading a book next to her. Find someone you can enjoy the silences with, is willing to put up with your b.s., and hang on tight to that person.
Not everything has been perfect. But you'd be surprised how helpful it can be to just say "let's sit down and have an adult conversation about..." We don't play stupid games, and we are honest.
My bachelor party was a baseball game and a few bars with friends. I don't think I talked to a woman outside of a waitress or somebody. I had no desire to do something crazy at a strip club.
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