"My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me?"
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Last: 4 yr ago by 94chem
It is a great mystery to me that Jesus...both God and man..would utter these words.
His (human?) body would die for 3 days...his soul would live on (in a perfect state)...and it would rejoin his resurrected body 3 days later.
If God and man in the person of Jesus are inseparable, how does the body (not soul) of God die...or did it?
Was it His humanity that cried out to God/himself...who was of the same essence in the person of Jesus?
Was his briefly departed soul both God and man...or God only...the only One capable of retrieving previously departed souls?
Was his soul God and his earthly body man...in order to show the right (original) ordering of man "in God's image?"
Did Jesus...both God and man...go to retrieve souls prior to the resurrection...not just "the God part of Jesus?"
I sincerely apologize for any unintended blasphemy.
It's too deep for me to understand.
I hope God forgives me for my ignorance and curiosity, among many other things.
His (human?) body would die for 3 days...his soul would live on (in a perfect state)...and it would rejoin his resurrected body 3 days later.
If God and man in the person of Jesus are inseparable, how does the body (not soul) of God die...or did it?
Was it His humanity that cried out to God/himself...who was of the same essence in the person of Jesus?
Was his briefly departed soul both God and man...or God only...the only One capable of retrieving previously departed souls?
Was his soul God and his earthly body man...in order to show the right (original) ordering of man "in God's image?"
Did Jesus...both God and man...go to retrieve souls prior to the resurrection...not just "the God part of Jesus?"
I sincerely apologize for any unintended blasphemy.
It's too deep for me to understand.
I hope God forgives me for my ignorance and curiosity, among many other things.
I think there was a heresy in the early church that touched on the essence of Jesus.
I hope I didn't argue for it...that was not my intent.
It's just all so unfathomable...
I hope I didn't argue for it...that was not my intent.
It's just all so unfathomable...
GasPasser97 said:
It is a great mystery to me that Jesus...both God and man..would utter these words.
His (human?) body would die for 3 days...his soul would live on (in a perfect state)...and it would rejoin his resurrected body 3 days later.
If God and man in the person of Jesus are inseparable, how does the body (not soul) of God die...or did it?
Was it His humanity that cried out to God/himself...who was of the same essence in the person of Jesus?
Was his briefly departed soul both God and man...or God only...the only One capable of retrieving previously departed souls?
Was his soul God and his earthly body man...in order to show the right (original) ordering of man "in God's image?"
Did Jesus...both God and man...go to retrieve souls prior to the resurrection...not just "the God part of Jesus?"
I sincerely apologize for any unintended blasphemy.
It's too deep for me to understand.
I hope God forgives me for my ignorance and curiosity, among many other things.
It's Psalm 22. The first line is not the end of the story. We shouldn't take it that way. Pastor Cooper is 100% right.
Yes His body is human. Fully man, same as you and me. There is no confusion or change or separation of His humanity and His Divinity. You can't separate them. The Son died on the cross.
As a human He has a human soul.
He "went to hades" which I take to mean He was truly dead. Whatever He endured in death was like ours.
As far as I understand it, this is the teaching of the Church through the ecumenical councils. Most of these questions are answered in this way because of the theological consequences of other answers. But, the incarnation is a mystery beyond our understanding. So these are not true, but they point to the truth.
No blasphemy or heresy in questions.
GasPasser97 said:
I think there was a heresy in the early church that touched on the essence of Jesus.
I hope I didn't argue for it...that was not my intent.
It's just all so unfathomable...
Lots of heresies in the early church were regarding the essence of Christ.
I don't think you argued for it or did anything that merits an apology. Your questions are not unreasonable.
The despair found in Psalm 22 is real. The accusation is there, even though the acknowledgement of God's sovereignty is there too.
You're right that it is unfathomable.. ineffable. I've been praying Mark 9:24 tonight.
" He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted;
Nor has He hidden His face from him;
But when he cried to Him for help, He heard."
Nor has He hidden His face from him;
But when he cried to Him for help, He heard."
Just reviewed Psalm 22...
Maybe Jesus was tying the lament of all of us to the sureness of His/God's promise to His people.
The pain and cruelty of this world is real...but His triumph was realized at that moment for all to know.
It's like his death completes the Psalm.
I don't know if that's right, but it feels that way.
Thank you for your thoughts.
Maybe Jesus was tying the lament of all of us to the sureness of His/God's promise to His people.
The pain and cruelty of this world is real...but His triumph was realized at that moment for all to know.
It's like his death completes the Psalm.
I don't know if that's right, but it feels that way.
Thank you for your thoughts.
If someone hears and acknowledges your cries, but yet you can count all of your bones, does it not still feel like you have been forsaken at that time?
Maybe the true realization of Psalm 22 on the cross was the perfect summation of Jesus as both God and man.
sounds like something someone would say who wasn't, in fact, the same level as god the father.
Well, traditional Christian theology teaches the monarchy of the Father, so you're perfectly correct. Christ is God of God, but He says Himself - the Father is greater than I am.
Within some cultures it is common that certain quotations, secular or religious, are known and even memorized because of their importance. The Pledge of Allegiance, the Lord's Prayer, are good examples of quotations that if started can be completed by most people in our culture..
This was certainly true of the psalms in Jesus time. He needed only to say the first line, and most Jews would have known the rest, or at least the message.
Jesus was quoting Psalm 22, a messianic psalm that vividly describes the agony the suffering servant would endure. God the Father did not abandon his Son in his Son's suffering but allowed him in his humanity to experience the sense of divine abandonment that humans often feel during times of need, and especially when in sin. Similar to how we might feel that God has abandoned us when we are suffering (even though this isn't the case), so the Son of God in his humanity experienced that aspect of human suffering as well. He died for our sins, and the weight of those sinsand thus the feeling of abandonmentmust have been exceedingly heavy at that point.
Read all of Psalm 22. By quoting this psalm, Jesus shows that he is the fulfillment of that prophecy and that he will be vindicated, which is evident in the psalm's triumphant ending.
1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from helping me, from the words of my groaning?
2 O my God, I cry by day, but you do not answer;
and by night, but find no rest.
3 Yet you are holy,
enthroned on the praises of Israel.
4 In you our ancestors trusted;
they trusted, and you delivered them.
5 To you they cried, and were saved;
in you they trusted, and were not put to shame.
6 But I am a worm, and not human;
scorned by others, and despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock at me;
they make mouths at me, they shake their heads;
8 "Commit your cause to the Lord; let him deliver
let him rescue the one in whom he delights!"
9 Yet it was you who took me from the womb;
you kept me safe on my mother's breast.
10 On you I was cast from my birth,
and since my mother bore me you have been my God.
11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.
12 Many bulls encircle me,
strong bulls of Bashan surround me;
13 they open wide their mouths at me,
like a ravening and roaring lion.
14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint;
my heart is like wax;
it is melted within my breast;
15 my mouth is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to my jaws;
you lay me in the dust of death.
16 For dogs are all around me;
a company of evildoers encircles me.
My hands and feet have shriveled;
17 I can count all my bones.
They stare and gloat over me;
18 they divide my clothes among themselves,
and for my clothing they cast lots.
19 But you, O Lord, do not be far away!
O my help, come quickly to my aid!
20 Deliver my soul from the sword,
my life[c] from the power of the dog!
21 Save me from the mouth of the lion!
From the horns of the wild oxen you have rescued me.
22 I will tell of your name to my brothers and sisters;
in the midst of the congregation I will praise you:
23 You who fear the Lord, praise him!
All you offspring of Jacob, glorify him;
stand in awe of him, all you offspring of Israel!
24 For he did not despise or abhor
the affliction of the afflicted;
he did not hide his face from me,
but heard when If cried to him.
25 From you comes my praise in the great congregation;
my vows I will pay before those who fear him.
26 The poor shall eat and be satisfied;
those who seek him shall praise the Lord.
May your hearts live forever!
27 All the ends of the earth shall remember
and turn to the Lord;
and all the families of the nations
shall worship before him.
28 For dominion belongs to the Lord,
and he rules over the nations.
29 To him, indeed, shall all who sleep in the earth bow down;
before him shall bow all who go down to the dust,
and I shall live for him.
30 Posterity will serve him;
future generations will be told about the Lord,
31 and proclaim his deliverance to a people yet unborn,
saying that he has done it.
This was certainly true of the psalms in Jesus time. He needed only to say the first line, and most Jews would have known the rest, or at least the message.
Jesus was quoting Psalm 22, a messianic psalm that vividly describes the agony the suffering servant would endure. God the Father did not abandon his Son in his Son's suffering but allowed him in his humanity to experience the sense of divine abandonment that humans often feel during times of need, and especially when in sin. Similar to how we might feel that God has abandoned us when we are suffering (even though this isn't the case), so the Son of God in his humanity experienced that aspect of human suffering as well. He died for our sins, and the weight of those sinsand thus the feeling of abandonmentmust have been exceedingly heavy at that point.
Read all of Psalm 22. By quoting this psalm, Jesus shows that he is the fulfillment of that prophecy and that he will be vindicated, which is evident in the psalm's triumphant ending.
1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from helping me, from the words of my groaning?
2 O my God, I cry by day, but you do not answer;
and by night, but find no rest.
3 Yet you are holy,
enthroned on the praises of Israel.
4 In you our ancestors trusted;
they trusted, and you delivered them.
5 To you they cried, and were saved;
in you they trusted, and were not put to shame.
6 But I am a worm, and not human;
scorned by others, and despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock at me;
they make mouths at me, they shake their heads;
8 "Commit your cause to the Lord; let him deliver
let him rescue the one in whom he delights!"
9 Yet it was you who took me from the womb;
you kept me safe on my mother's breast.
10 On you I was cast from my birth,
and since my mother bore me you have been my God.
11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.
12 Many bulls encircle me,
strong bulls of Bashan surround me;
13 they open wide their mouths at me,
like a ravening and roaring lion.
14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint;
my heart is like wax;
it is melted within my breast;
15 my mouth is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to my jaws;
you lay me in the dust of death.
16 For dogs are all around me;
a company of evildoers encircles me.
My hands and feet have shriveled;
17 I can count all my bones.
They stare and gloat over me;
18 they divide my clothes among themselves,
and for my clothing they cast lots.
19 But you, O Lord, do not be far away!
O my help, come quickly to my aid!
20 Deliver my soul from the sword,
my life[c] from the power of the dog!
21 Save me from the mouth of the lion!
From the horns of the wild oxen you have rescued me.
22 I will tell of your name to my brothers and sisters;
in the midst of the congregation I will praise you:
23 You who fear the Lord, praise him!
All you offspring of Jacob, glorify him;
stand in awe of him, all you offspring of Israel!
24 For he did not despise or abhor
the affliction of the afflicted;
he did not hide his face from me,
but heard when If cried to him.
25 From you comes my praise in the great congregation;
my vows I will pay before those who fear him.
26 The poor shall eat and be satisfied;
those who seek him shall praise the Lord.
May your hearts live forever!
27 All the ends of the earth shall remember
and turn to the Lord;
and all the families of the nations
shall worship before him.
28 For dominion belongs to the Lord,
and he rules over the nations.
29 To him, indeed, shall all who sleep in the earth bow down;
before him shall bow all who go down to the dust,
and I shall live for him.
30 Posterity will serve him;
future generations will be told about the Lord,
31 and proclaim his deliverance to a people yet unborn,
saying that he has done it.
Welp, that's it. You're definitely going to hell to suffer for all eternity now.Quote:
I hope God forgives me for my ignorance and curiosity, among many other things.
7nine
Thanks for posting that. It is beautiful.
I love the part where it says "The poor shall eat and be satisfied, those who seek Him shall praise the Lord.
And of course
And proclaim His deliverance to a people yet unborn, saying that He has done it.
I love the part where it says "The poor shall eat and be satisfied, those who seek Him shall praise the Lord.
And of course
And proclaim His deliverance to a people yet unborn, saying that He has done it.
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I think it's also worth pointing out that the words of Jesus from the Suffering Servant psalm are the beginning of the psalm, but as mentioned above, the implication is that we must trust in God, even in the midst of our suffering, and when we do so, we will emerge victorious in our participation in the fulfillment of God's divine plan.
Jesus highlights the beginning of psalm 22 knowing that those who heard his lamenting quotation from Psalm 22 would remember that the end of the story is victory over death as he rose from the dead. He was reminding us that he is the Suffering Servant of Psalm 22 and he was victorious over death and so those of us who want to follow him must take up our crosses every day and trust that even when we feel like God has foresaken us, we will be victorious if we persevere and trust God.
Jesus highlights the beginning of psalm 22 knowing that those who heard his lamenting quotation from Psalm 22 would remember that the end of the story is victory over death as he rose from the dead. He was reminding us that he is the Suffering Servant of Psalm 22 and he was victorious over death and so those of us who want to follow him must take up our crosses every day and trust that even when we feel like God has foresaken us, we will be victorious if we persevere and trust God.
Great topic!
This verse too has always given me pause.
This is how I believe this verse should be interpreted:
Moments before Jesus expired and freely gave up his Spirit, in that instant all the Sin of Mankind through the ages was cast upon him.
The sight and the thought was so repugnant to a Holy Father, he had to turn his back on his son, even only for an instance..
Then Jesus spoke those words...
This verse too has always given me pause.
This is how I believe this verse should be interpreted:
Moments before Jesus expired and freely gave up his Spirit, in that instant all the Sin of Mankind through the ages was cast upon him.
The sight and the thought was so repugnant to a Holy Father, he had to turn his back on his son, even only for an instance..
Then Jesus spoke those words...
I don't think this is satisfying. The sin of mankind can't overcome the divinity of God. He expiates the sin and evil in Himself - it's completely overcome by His love and mercy.
If we read the psalm he's quoting, I think it's very clear what it means. He's forsaken into the hands of sinners, pain, and suffering.
If we read the psalm he's quoting, I think it's very clear what it means. He's forsaken into the hands of sinners, pain, and suffering.
I like my explanation better.
Shakes the Clown said:
Great topic!
This verse too has always given me pause.
This is how I believe this verse should be interpreted:
Moments before Jesus expired and freely gave up his Spirit, in that instant all the Sin of Mankind through the ages was cast upon him.
The sight and the thought was so repugnant to a Holy Father, he had to turn his back on his son, even only for an instance..
Then Jesus spoke those words...
I think it's more akin to a parent God the father) staring into the terrified, crying eyes of their little child (God the son) as the doctor administers the vaccination, both knowing that it's hurting but both knowing it is necessary.
The psalm is like three posts up, we don't have to guess.
The point relevant to your explanation is "he did not hide his face from me, but heard when I cried to him."
The point relevant to your explanation is "he did not hide his face from me, but heard when I cried to him."
This makes sense. Thank you.XUSCR said:
I think it's also worth pointing out that the words of Jesus from the Suffering Servant psalm are the beginning of the psalm, but as mentioned above, the implication is that we must trust in God, even in the midst of our suffering, and when we do so, we will emerge victorious in our participation in the fulfillment of God's divine plan.
Jesus highlights the beginning of psalm 22 knowing that those who heard his lamenting quotation from Psalm 22 would remember that the end of the story is victory over death as he rose from the dead. He was reminding us that he is the Suffering Servant of Psalm 22 and he was victorious over death and so those of us who want to follow him must take up our crosses every day and trust that even when we feel like God has foresaken us, we will be victorious if we persevere and trust God.
Excellent point k2.k2aggie07 said:
The psalm is like three posts up, we don't have to guess.
The point relevant to your explanation is "he did not hide his face from me, but heard when I cried to him."
The other aspect of this that we have not discussed is the experience of the cross from the perspective of God the Father whose love for God the Son is infinite, to the point that God the Holy Spirit proceeds from their love for each other (I am intentionally avoiding the filioque trap
). Is it orthodox to say that given the loving relationship between the Father and the Son the Father also experienced what any loving parent would experience by watching his perfectly innocent son suffer incomprehensible agony as atonement for the transgressions of the certainly guilty?
Looking forward to this discussion.
Peace.
Sure, I mean, I have no idea. It seems impossible to fathom.
Yeshua quotes the first line of the psalm, because that's how they named the psalms back then. They didn't have them numbered like we do today. Not like he could yell "Psalm 22, Psalm 22"
Seems like that misses the larger question of why cite it at all...Win At Life said:
Yeshua quotes the first line of the psalm, because that's how they named the psalms back then. They didn't have them numbered like we do today. Not like he could yell "Psalm 22, Psalm 22"
Agreed. I suppose that is the point, as it relates to the purpose of Jesus quoting the first verse from what we now call Psalm 22. The Father NEVER abandoned the Son, and in fact was still infinitely in communion with the Son throughout his suffering.k2aggie07 said:
Sure, I mean, I have no idea. It seems impossible to fathom.
Assuming this is the case, this seems to seriously call into question the idea that God poured out his wrath onto the perfectly innocent victim in order to forgive the certainly guilty. That would seem to make God inherently unjust as opposed to perfectly just and infinitely merciful and loving.
Instead, Christ accepting his suffering and death as reparation or atonement or expiation for our sins was an act of infinitely meritorious love that the Father accepts. It seems that the infinite value is confirmed by the fact that God didn't turn away from Jesus in the midst of his suffering and instead remained in eternal and Infinite communion with him.
I think the Catechism of the Catholic Church says it well:
The Catechism articulates the full and complete value of Christ's atoning sacrifice in this way:Quote:
By his obedience unto death, Jesus accomplished the substitution of the suffering Servant, who "makes himself an offering for sin," when "he bore the sin of many," and who "shall make many to be accounted righteous," for "he shall bear their iniquities." Jesus atoned for our faults and made satisfaction for our sins to the Father (615, emphasis original).
The Church's teaching on atonement is consistent with what Jesus himself taught: "The Son of Man is come . . . to give his life as a redemption for many" (Matt. 20:28).Quote:
Christ's death is both the Paschal sacrifice that accomplishes the definitive redemption of men . . . and the sacrifice of the New Covenant, which restores man to communion with God by reconciling him to God through the "blood of the covenant" (613, emphasis original).
A mundane explanation is that it's a quote that any educated Jewish person would be familiar with, and he thought it would be an apt thing to say given his dire situation.XUSCR said:Seems like that misses the larger question of why cite it at all...Win At Life said:
Yeshua quotes the first line of the psalm, because that's how they named the psalms back then. They didn't have them numbered like we do today. Not like he could yell "Psalm 22, Psalm 22"
commando2004 said:A mundane explanation is that it's a quote that any educated Jewish person would be familiar with, and he thought it would be an apt thing to say given his dire situation.XUSCR said:Seems like that misses the larger question of why cite it at all...Win At Life said:
Yeshua quotes the first line of the psalm, because that's how they named the psalms back then. They didn't have them numbered like we do today. Not like he could yell "Psalm 22, Psalm 22"
Yes, of course. I would go further and say it was fulfillment of a prophecy and also a way of drawing those who were there and all those who would follow to come to know who he was and what it means to trust God, even in the deepest depths of despair. He invoked the Suffering Servant and draws us into the terrible angst and pain knowing that if we know the entire Psalm, we will also know that from the depths of pain and suffering comes victory for those who trust in God's mercy.
The confusion in the church is simply that many in the church teach that Jesus and God are the same. They are not.
We are to put on the mind of Christ not God. The doctrine of Trinity does not teach that Jesus and God are the same.
We are to put on the mind of Christ not God. The doctrine of Trinity does not teach that Jesus and God are the same.
commando2004 said:A mundane explanation is that it's a quote that any educated Jewish person would be familiar with, and he thought it would be an apt thing to say given his dire situation.XUSCR said:Seems like that misses the larger question of why cite it at all...Win At Life said:
Yeshua quotes the first line of the psalm, because that's how they named the psalms back then. They didn't have them numbered like we do today. Not like he could yell "Psalm 22, Psalm 22"
Yeah, Yeshua is pointing us to this Psalm that clearly has parts that prophecy of that exact moment. But, the first line may have been how David felt when writing it and not necessarily an indication of the relationship between Yeshua and Elohim.
XUSCR said:Shakes the Clown said:
Great topic!
This verse too has always given me pause.
This is how I believe this verse should be interpreted:
Moments before Jesus expired and freely gave up his Spirit, in that instant all the Sin of Mankind through the ages was cast upon him.
The sight and the thought was so repugnant to a Holy Father, he had to turn his back on his son, even only for an instance..
Then Jesus spoke those words...
I think it's more akin to a parent God the father) staring into the terrified, crying eyes of their little child (God the son) as the doctor administers the vaccination, both knowing that it's hurting but both knowing it is necessary.
My father and I speak often about the Bible and as we advance in age have decided to take some of the most significant events into the Bible and interpret them to basic layman's terms. I have to admit thay the scriptures aren't always easy for me to interpret and understand so this exercise has really strengthened our understanding and application of these scriptures.
What you said here is what I personally believe. Many with negative opinions have hypothesized that this was Jesus questioning the authority and sympathy of God and I couldn't disagree more.
To put it as basically as possible this was the HUMAN side
Of Jesus stating he was overcome with the pain of the crucifixion and scared. It wasn't anger with God but akin to. Kid asking why a parent would let a doctor jam a needle into them. Quoting Psalm 22 was something I think God
gave to Jesus in his time of pain and misery promising him that all would be made right in His kingdom. (You're
Getting this shot because it's a momentary pain needed to make everything better).
The beginning of Psalm 22 isn't the important part but the rest of the passage that's most significant, and I thank the poster who took the time to quote the entire passage
Some additional reflection on Psalm 22, particularly the introduction, in the light of the first 4 verses from the first chapter of James:
1 James, a slave of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes in the dispersion, greetings.
2 Consider it all joy, my brothers, when you encounter various trials,
3 for you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance.
4 And let perseverance be perfect, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.
Sometimes when we are in the midst of crisis or trials, we may be asking "where are you God? Why have you abandoned me?" Perhaps what our Lord is teaching us by quoting the beginning of Psalm 22 from the cross at the instant of his greatest despair is that it is precisely when we as believers are going through trials and suffering that we can KNOW that God is with us because going through the trials and suffering has a divine purpose, which is to draw us closer to him. Can we then say that it is precisely when Jesus appears to us to be at the lowest point of his earthly journey that he is actually at his closest to God in that journey? Moreover, as described above, any faithful Jew who heard Jesus quote the beginning of Psalm 22 would have instinctively finished the message of that Psalm and known that while only the first verse is quoted, the rest of the story was one of victory in God's salvation.
So, perhaps the lesson of Jesus quoting Psalm 22 is that we who follow him can understand the meaning and reason for our trials and suffering, which are to draw us closer to God who loves us as a father.
Now, connect that back to the first 4 verses of James, which are probably a bit startling to his audience (primarily Jews who were becoming Christians and were likely to be persecuted for their new faith), and consider that he is telling them and us today that when we are in the midst of trials and suffering it is proof of God's love for us and that if we will lean on Jesus to get us through those times we will grow ever closer to him and then when we stand before Jesus after our earthly trials we will be staring into the eyes of a true friend who has gone through our trials and suffering WITH us and in doing so has formed an eternal bond of love with us that we won't truly understand until we are with him.
And furthermore, can we then say that James's message, built on Psalm 22, is referring to our sanctification as a process whereby we are made perfect through trials and suffering? I think so. We can then look to what Paul says in Philippians 3 about the process of becoming sanctified and how it is tied to the trials and tribulations that God wills for us to suffer.
7 [But] whatever gains I had, these I have come to consider a loss because of Christ.
8
More than that, I even consider everything as a loss because of the supreme good of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have accepted the loss of all things and I consider them so much rubbish, that I may gain Christ
9
and be found in him, not having any righteousness of my own based on the law but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God, depending on faith
10
to know him and the power of his resurrection and [the] sharing of his sufferings by being conformed to his death,
11
if somehow I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
12
It is not that I have already taken hold of it or have already attained perfect maturity, but I continue my pursuit in hope that I may possess it, since I have indeed been taken possession of by Christ.
1 James, a slave of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes in the dispersion, greetings.
2 Consider it all joy, my brothers, when you encounter various trials,
3 for you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance.
4 And let perseverance be perfect, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.
Sometimes when we are in the midst of crisis or trials, we may be asking "where are you God? Why have you abandoned me?" Perhaps what our Lord is teaching us by quoting the beginning of Psalm 22 from the cross at the instant of his greatest despair is that it is precisely when we as believers are going through trials and suffering that we can KNOW that God is with us because going through the trials and suffering has a divine purpose, which is to draw us closer to him. Can we then say that it is precisely when Jesus appears to us to be at the lowest point of his earthly journey that he is actually at his closest to God in that journey? Moreover, as described above, any faithful Jew who heard Jesus quote the beginning of Psalm 22 would have instinctively finished the message of that Psalm and known that while only the first verse is quoted, the rest of the story was one of victory in God's salvation.
So, perhaps the lesson of Jesus quoting Psalm 22 is that we who follow him can understand the meaning and reason for our trials and suffering, which are to draw us closer to God who loves us as a father.
Now, connect that back to the first 4 verses of James, which are probably a bit startling to his audience (primarily Jews who were becoming Christians and were likely to be persecuted for their new faith), and consider that he is telling them and us today that when we are in the midst of trials and suffering it is proof of God's love for us and that if we will lean on Jesus to get us through those times we will grow ever closer to him and then when we stand before Jesus after our earthly trials we will be staring into the eyes of a true friend who has gone through our trials and suffering WITH us and in doing so has formed an eternal bond of love with us that we won't truly understand until we are with him.
And furthermore, can we then say that James's message, built on Psalm 22, is referring to our sanctification as a process whereby we are made perfect through trials and suffering? I think so. We can then look to what Paul says in Philippians 3 about the process of becoming sanctified and how it is tied to the trials and tribulations that God wills for us to suffer.
7 [But] whatever gains I had, these I have come to consider a loss because of Christ.
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More than that, I even consider everything as a loss because of the supreme good of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have accepted the loss of all things and I consider them so much rubbish, that I may gain Christ
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and be found in him, not having any righteousness of my own based on the law but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God, depending on faith
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to know him and the power of his resurrection and [the] sharing of his sufferings by being conformed to his death,
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if somehow I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
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It is not that I have already taken hold of it or have already attained perfect maturity, but I continue my pursuit in hope that I may possess it, since I have indeed been taken possession of by Christ.
Heard this today, thought it fit well with the previous post.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/5fLHDDzoCR2KyEYGPbhek0?si=V262syMNQhS6LSUyT3FFRw
https://open.spotify.com/episode/5fLHDDzoCR2KyEYGPbhek0?si=V262syMNQhS6LSUyT3FFRw
that was something I needed to hear.
K2,k2aggie07 said:
Heard this today, thought it fit well with the previous post.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/5fLHDDzoCR2KyEYGPbhek0?si=V262syMNQhS6LSUyT3FFRw
Thanks for the recommendation. I have listened to the first two parts. The second part was particularly good. Thank you for the referral. I will be listening to parts 3 and 4 this week. It's already been a blessing to me.