There can be no real prayer where there is no sense of need

4,244 Views | 81 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by dermdoc
Zobel
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AG
Because the grave is not the end of the story. That's the core of the gospel, that death isn't the end. IN the OT you get the idea that it's a problem, that death isn't right or appropriate for the creation of the God as He reveals Himself. And you also get glimpses of the solution in several of the prophets.

The end of the story is the resurrection, and the scriptures place the judgment after the resurrection.

A lot of the modern American or western mind about the afterlife is really more Greek pagan philosophy than it is Jewish or traditionally Christian. It's very dualist, that there's two parts to us, a temporal body with an eternal soul. But that's not the OT or traditional teaching. We are both, and it's unnatural in the sense of off-design for us to be separated. But, God in His mercy sustains that soul or divine breath, personal essence, animating spirit, whatever you want to call it, until the resurrection.
dermdoc
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You said it much better than me. Death is the abnormal thing and was never meant to be part of God's creation.
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Frok
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It is after all a parable and not a historical account when speaking of the rich man and Lazarus. I think the point is to build on what Jesus said earlier that in the kingdom of Heaven the last will be the first and the first will be the last.

In other words, don't mistreat the poor.


dermdoc
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Frok said:

It is after all a parable and not a historical account when speaking of the rich man and Lazarus. I think the point is to build on what Jesus said earlier that in the kingdom of Heaven the last will be the first and the first will be the last.

In other words, don't mistreat the poor.



Agree.

And what is weird is that nothing brings people more joy than helping the poor. It is our loss.
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Texaggie7nine
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Quote:

And what is weird is that nothing brings people more joy than helping the poor.
I've helped my share of the poor. For some it is joyful as it is something they really need and really helps them, for some, you are just another sucker in the long line of suckers they find to keep their lifestyle going.
7nine
dermdoc
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Texaggie7nine said:

Quote:

And what is weird is that nothing brings people more joy than helping the poor.
I've helped my share of the poor. For some it is joyful as it is something they really need and really helps them, for some, you are just another sucker in the long line of suckers they find to keep their lifestyle going.
Agree. Enabling is not good.
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PacifistAg
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Texaggie7nine said:

Quote:

And what is weird is that nothing brings people more joy than helping the poor.
I've helped my share of the poor. For some it is joyful as it is something they really need and really helps them, for some, you are just another sucker in the long line of suckers they find to keep their lifestyle going.
What I found most effective is to not just hand things out a car window or as you walk by, no matter how well-intentioned. Often we try to fill what we believe their needs are, or should be. I find it far more effective to slow down, even if it means you are late to somewhere, and engage them. Talk to them and get to know them. Then you can find out what their actual needs are, and can then meet those needs.

We had a friend, Larry, who when we first met him, we thought he was just mentally challenged. He wouldn't look us in the eyes. He was just panhandling near our RV park, so I ran over and started talking. We just kept doing this and we slowly noticed he began looking at us. He'd tell us how people would hand him a beer, but he doesn't drink or do drugs. He was just longing for friendship. By the time we moved away, he had a full-time job, girlfriend, and safe place to live. I think we, far too often, give out of our perceptions of their needs. That can certainly be helpful, but can also be problematic.

Now, it doesn't guarantee you won't be taken advantage of. We got burned badly too by following the same approach. We finally told Stella that we couldn't give her any more financial help, partly because we have financial burdens as well, but we'd love for her to continue going to church with us and we're here if she ever just needs someone to talk to. We never heard from her again.
Texaggie7nine
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Most of the burns I experienced was by friends and now distant family. I don't know about poor strangers I help. I just have to hope they aren't scamming me.

There is a lot of truth to the saying that you cannot help someone until they want to help themselves, no matter how hard you try and how much you care.
7nine
dermdoc
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PacifistAg said:

Texaggie7nine said:

Quote:

And what is weird is that nothing brings people more joy than helping the poor.
I've helped my share of the poor. For some it is joyful as it is something they really need and really helps them, for some, you are just another sucker in the long line of suckers they find to keep their lifestyle going.
What I found most effective is to not just hand things out a car window or as you walk by, no matter how well-intentioned. Often we try to fill what we believe their needs are, or should be. I find it far more effective to slow down, even if it means you are late to somewhere, and engage them. Talk to them and get to know them. Then you can find out what their actual needs are, and can then meet those needs.

We had a friend, Larry, who when we first met him, we thought he was just mentally challenged. He wouldn't look us in the eyes. He was just panhandling near our RV park, so I ran over and started talking. We just kept doing this and we slowly noticed he began looking at us. He'd tell us how people would hand him a beer, but he doesn't drink or do drugs. He was just longing for friendship. By the time we moved away, he had a full-time job, girlfriend, and safe place to live. I think we, far too often, give out of our perceptions of their needs. That can certainly be helpful, but can also be problematic.

Now, it doesn't guarantee you won't be taken advantage of. We got burned badly too by following the same approach. We finally told Stella that we couldn't give her any more financial help, partly because we have financial burdens as well, but we'd love for her to continue going to church with us and we're here if she ever just needs someone to talk to. We never heard from her again.
Great story. I like the charity Compassion International. You sponsor a child and get to know them.
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Repeat the Line
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The only parable in the Bible that gives a name to one of the characters? Interesting.
dermdoc
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AG
Adorable Mason Reeves said:

The only parable in the Bible that gives a name to one of the characters? Interesting.
The name originally was I believe Eleazar who was Abaham's servant or overseer. I believe that makes it symbolic especially with the reference to Abraham's bosom.

And fwiw, Calvin also questioned the use of a name and to whether this was a parable or not.
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Zobel
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Yes, Lazarus is the Greek transliteration of the Hebrew name Eleazar.
dermdoc
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k2aggie07 said:

Yes, Lazarus is the Greek transliteration of the Hebrew name Eleazar.
Hey man I read something somewhere.
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