The thought just occurred to me...

2,664 Views | 21 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by dds08
dds08
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The story of Jesus and his life is proof that bad things happen to good people; even people who've never sinned!

It further supports the saying "life isn't fair." It doesn't matter who you are, suffering will happen.

It all leads to the question, what is this concept of fairness that all people seem to refer to? This fairness that all seem to believe they are entitled to?

Fairness. Is it some kind of fantasy?

I'm reminded of the book of Ecclesiastes.

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Zobel
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I believe the word you're looking for to describe it is "hevel."
dds08
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Just because one lives righteously and does righteous things doesn't exempt them from exposure to peril.
Catag94
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I think the sense that there must be fairness that we have comes from our being made in God's image. Somehow deeply ingrained in human makeup, we know that all things must be made right and fairness should exist. This will ultimately be the case through eternity and once Christ returns judge the living and the dead. We also seem to be built for eternity. We all experience death and know it is certain, yet we live daily like we will live forever. When we experience death in others, it seems so wrong. This is a strange for something so common and certain that we know happens to each of us. We don't think it's stance when the sun goes down each night, yet death is just as common and predictable. All this is, IMHO Is evidence of being made in God's image (not that we look like him).
Regardless, if you believe in God and eternity, don't confine your sense of fairness to just this lifetime. Whatever happens here is but a flash!
dermdoc
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Catag94 said:

I think the sense that there must be fairness that we have comes from our being made in God's image. Somehow deeply ingrained in human makeup, we know that all things must be made right and fairness should exist. This will ultimately be the case through eternity and once Christ returns judge the living and the dead. We also seem to be built for eternity. We all experience death and know it is certain, yet we live daily like we will live forever. When we experience death in others, it seems so wrong. This is a strange for something so common and certain that we know happens to each of us. We don't think it's stance when the sun goes down each night, yet death is just as common and predictable. All this is, IMHO Is evidence of being made in God's image (not that we look like him).
Regardless, if you believe in God and eternity, don't confine your sense of fairness to just this lifetime. Whatever happens here is but a flash!
Great post. And I had never thought about it like that.
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Texaggie7nine
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A sense of "fairness" can be identified in many species of animals with moderate level of intelligence (for the animal world) such as apes and dogs. It is also something we instill in our young when raising them.

This is simply a result of evolving brains that can analyze the future and how to affect it.

Religion is highly desirable for the fact that it offers a sense of fairness that the reality of this world denies and makes it easier for us to accept "unjust" results in this life.
7nine
Catag94
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I think the word JUSTICE is a better to describe our sense than fairness. Fairness can be used too ambiguously.
I do think we have a sense that Justice should ultimately prevail. And, it will.
tehmackdaddy
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A common argument non-believers use to dismiss the idea of God is all the unfairness/injustices we see in life. Nowhere in The Bible does God promise fairness.

Even our invitation to live with Him in eternity is inherently unfair as we are wholly undeserving.
PabloSerna
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Texaggie7nine said:

A sense of "fairness" can be identified in many species of animals with moderate level of intelligence (for the animal world) such as apes and dogs. It is also something we instill in our young when raising them.

This is simply a result of evolving brains that can analyze the future and how to affect it.

Religion is highly desirable for the fact that it offers a sense of fairness that the reality of this world denies and makes it easier for us to accept "unjust" results in this life.

Not quite sure I follow your logic when you say "sense" as if it is something of a ruse?

For me, at least, what I have come to believe, through my faith formation, is that suffering is meaningful - even salvific - if understood in the light of Christ. I doubt my dog feels this way, lol!

Fairness is a construct. I tell my kids all the time - life is not fair, but that doesn't mean you have to curl up and die. Fight the good fight.

+Pablo

PabloSerna
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tehmackdaddy said:

A common argument non-believers use to dismiss the idea of God is all the unfairness/injustices we see in life. Nowhere in The Bible does God promise fairness.

Even our invitation to live with Him in eternity is inherently unfair as we are wholly undeserving.

Freewill plays a part in all the "unfairness/injustices".

One of my favorite parables is the workers in the field. The one where the Master, towards the end of the day, puts other men to work - then pays everyone the same wages! The first workers were pissed - but had agreed to a set wage. I heard it explained that God (Master of Field) made things as they should have been from the beginning. That is the justice we can look forward to one day in heaven.

+Pablo
dermdoc
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Amen. I hate the word "fairness" because it is a total falsehood.
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Texaggie7nine
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Quote:

Not quite sure I follow your logic when you say "sense" as if it is something of a ruse?

Not a ruse. It is simply an emergent feature of intelligence.

You take two monkeys and sit them side by side, you give one monkey 1 banana and you give the other one 2 bananas, the 1 banana monkey is going to object.

Then with increased intelligence and more ability to think in future tense, humans were able to organize a society where a sense of "justice" could be established. Religion was a very effective tool for this. If people think they will be punished for doing "wrong" things even when no one is looking or could find out, then you have a much more civilized society.
7nine
hph6203
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Fairness


One of my favorite videos.
.
Catag94
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That demonstrates that the monkey on the left has:
1- had both both grapes and cucumbers
2-prefers grapes

But that he/she has a sense that all things should be just, Nah
Texaggie7nine
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If you have any experience with kids you can see exactly what the left monkey is feeling.

These experiments with animals aren't new and they always display an obvious sense of some type of "fairness".
7nine
Catag94
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I have my share of experience with kids and rather than "fairness", I'd suggest "selfishness". But, what I think sets us apart is our instinct that justice should or will ultimately prevail.
Texaggie7nine
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Catag94 said:

I have my share of experience with kids and rather than "fairness", I'd suggest "selfishness". But, what I think sets us apart is our instinct that justice should or will ultimately prevail.
Selfishness is a component yes. But there is a distinct feeling kids get when they see that they are not being treated the same as someone else. Same as the monkey in the video. You could see the selfish aspect of the monkey kick in when it reacted to the human turning their attention to the other monkey for them to do the job. It wanted the human to keep giving it the job to do for a cucumber. It accepted the cucumber at first, but when it saw the other monkey get a grape for doing the same thing, it protested and threw the cucumber at the human. It wasn't a "excuse me but I prefer the grape" reaction. It was a "screw you and this cucumber, why does the other monkey get a grape and I don't?"

I would argue that the feeling of justice ultimately prevailing is not instinctual or innate within us. That I would argue is a product of culture and environment. It is in our religions, in our stories, in our legal system. We surround ourselves with it and we do so because that is what protects civilization.
7nine
Zobel
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If that's true, why isn't the other monkey sharing or feeling guilty?

I think this is projection.
Texaggie7nine
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Because everyone knows the emotion that comes from getting the short end of the stick is more intense than the emotion from getting the long end.
7nine
J-Licious
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Catag94 said:

I have my share of experience with kids and rather than "fairness", I'd suggest "selfishness". But, what I think sets us apart is our instinct that justice should or will ultimately prevail.


This was my initial reaction as well. I believe the sense of "unfairness" is derived from coveting what others have.

In reference to the parable about wages...
I have had colleagues argue that the Christian beliefthat someone could seek repentance/Jesus on their deathbed after a life immersed in sin and go to heavenwas patently unfair. Letting go of the sense of unfairness (spouse, sibling, boss, coworker, neighbor) is the beginning of healthy living!
Catag94
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Curious why the tester in the monkey video never switched and gave the right monkey a cucumber and the other a grape.
Also, for all we know, the left monkey was trained to act like that in order to get a grape. Or, maybe the second and third icees of cucumber taste like $..t and since monkey throw $..I. This is a normal behavior.
Concluding just about anything from this one short video is at senseless.
dds08
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Just because you have never sinned doesn't mean you cannot die a physical death. Being sinless doesn't make you immortal.
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